Brody’s speech
I’d forgotten what a moving speech Adrien Brody gave four years ago when he won the Best Actor Oscar for The Pianist. His final thought (which he has to “shush” the orchestra to finish) about the citizens, whether they worship God or Allah, who were then just starting to be wounded and killed in Iraq is especially poignant now, for obvious reasons.
People were just starting to be killed in Iraq then?
You mean, like Kurds?
Or the Marsh Arabs?
Or dissidents or soccer players who didn’t play well enough for Uday or any girl who caught his fancy or his brothers-in-law who escaped Iraq and were lured back?
“Along with other human rights organizations, The Documental Centre for Human Rights in Iraq has compiled documentation on over 600,000 civilian executions in Iraq. Human Rights Watch reports that in one operation alone, the Anfal, Saddam killed 100,000 Kurdish Iraqis. Another 500,000 are estimated to have died in Saddam’s needless war with Iran. Coldly taken as a daily average for the 24 years of Saddam’s reign, these numbers give us a horrifying picture of between 70 and 125 civilian deaths per day for every one of Saddam’s 8,000-odd days in power.”
http://www.gbn.com:80/ArticleDisplayServlet.srv?aid=2400&msp=1242
Brody’s win, and the general Pianist surge that year was one of the great Oscar memories I’ll ever have. I’ll never forget the elation and sense of justice that I got from hearing Brody’s and Roman Polanski’s (particularly the latter) names called, pretty much killing the Chicago momentum that year (despite its winning Best Picture). It just felt RIGHT. Don’t imagine I’ll feel that way about an Oscar development again for a long time, maybe ever.
Mgmax, liberal don’t care about Kurds, don’t waste your time. Kurds aren’t easily-painted victims of liberal guilt that need protection.
600,000 Kurds died in a 10 year period under Saddam’s rule. But they don’t fit in Adrien Brody’s despicable convenient mindset, so that’s just a statistic to him.
LOL, Adrien Brody winning Best Picture.
Sorry Jeff, you must be tired from travelling, but couldn’t resist.
People were just starting to be killed in Iraq then?
You mean, like Kurds?
Or the Marsh Arabs?
Or dissidents or soccer players who didn’t play well enough for Uday or any girl who caught his fancy or his brothers-in-law who escaped Iraq and were lured back?
“Along with other human rights organizations, The Documental Centre for Human Rights in Iraq has compiled documentation on over 600,000 civilian executions in Iraq. Human Rights Watch reports that in one operation alone, the Anfal, Saddam killed 100,000 Kurdish Iraqis. Another 500,000 are estimated to have died in Saddam’s needless war with Iran. Coldly taken as a daily average for the 24 years of Saddam’s reign, these numbers give us a horrifying picture of between 70 and 125 civilian deaths per day for every one of Saddam’s 8,000-odd days in power.”
http://www.gbn.com:80/ArticleDisplayServlet.srv?aid=2400&msp=1242
NYC: Wait, the Kurds were killed by weapons supplied by Republicans.
As usual, D.Z., your zingers are dead-on except for the little fact of being dead wrong. Actually, the Kurds were killed by weapons supplied by the Soviet Union, France, China, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Brazil, Egypt, Romania, Denmark and Libya more than from the US, which supplied 1% of his armaments 1973-1990– and obviously none after that:
http://www.command-post.org/archives/002978.html
Of course, the most memorable moment of Brody’s win, for most people was when he had the temerity to practically shove his tongue down Halle Berry’s throat.
Yes, the massacre of the Kurds was a shameful moment in human history. As was the failure of the presidential administrations at the time to intercede. I’m glad we got around to righting that wrong, fifteen years later, albeit on false pretenses. I only wish we’d done so in a coherent way, with an adequate number of troops, and a plan for postwar reconstruction, rather than a blithe belief that democracy, in and of itself, could repair infrastructure, end sectarian strife, reduce a massive unemployment rate, and negate the influence of radical clerics. Certainly, no one in charge of this war wished for the dozens of Iraqi casualties per day — they’re not victims of insanity or evil, as the Kurds were during Saddam’s regime. Instead, those Iraqis are dead as a result of a blithe, sunny optimism that has failed (and continues to fail) to comprehend the facts on the ground in Baghdad. But they’re dead all the same.
Yes, the massacre of the Jews was a shameful moment in human history. As was the failure of the presidential administrations at the time to intercede. I’m glad we got around to righting that wrong, fifteen years later, albeit on false pretenses. I only wish we’d done so in a coherent way, with an adequate number of troops, and a plan for postwar reconstruction, rather than a blithe belief that democracy, in and of itself, could repair infrastructure, end sectarian strife, reduce a massive unemployment rate, and negate the influence of Nazis. Certainly, no one in charge of this war wished for the dozens of German casualties per day — they’re not victims of insanity or evil, as the Jews were during Hitler’s regime. Instead, those Germans are dead as a result of a blithe, sunny optimism that has failed (and continues to fail) to comprehend the facts on the ground in Berlin. But they’re dead all the same.
Which is worse, really, blundering your way through a war or thinking that the right thing was wrong because this war, uniquely in human history, was not perfectly planned and carried off?
Don’t try to argue with moonbat liberals, Mgmax, they exist to be idiots. I only wish Osama actually had a nuclear bomb for today’s protest in Washington. What a glorious way to lose so many idiots that would have been.
As usual, D.Z., your zingers are dead-on except for the little fact of being dead wrong. Actually, the Kurds were killed by weapons supplied by the Soviet Union, France, China, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Brazil, Egypt, Romania, Denmark and Libya more than from the US, which supplied 1% of his armaments 1973-1990– and obviously none after that:
http://www.command-post.org/archives/002978.html
Godwin’s Law, and batshit insane, respectively. I’m done.
It’s not insane to have no feeling for the other side in a culture war. Don’t pretend that majority of liberals wouldn’t care if Dick Cheney died. I certainly do no advocate the murder of anyone I don’t like, but would I care if Sean Penn died in a car accident? Of course not. Would Jeffrey Wells care if Tom Delay died in a car accident? He might pretend he does, but of course he doesn’t.
This is a war. It’s a culture war.
If you look back at political history, especially in America in the 19th Century, and even 20th century until television, there was WAY more animosity expressed towards those you disagreed with then there is now. I think we should return to that.
And calling Bush a terrorist who should be executed for war crimes is a fair criticism for Marxist leftists who are fighting the culture war.
Wanting to see Sean Penn killed by Osama Bin Laden, who Penn fights to protect and defend, is fair for me to desire, is it not?
Yes, the massacre of the Jews was a shameful moment in human history. As was the failure of the presidential administrations at the time to intercede. I’m glad we got around to righting that wrong, fifteen years later, albeit on false pretenses. I only wish we’d done so in a coherent way, with an adequate number of troops, and a plan for postwar reconstruction, rather than a blithe belief that democracy, in and of itself, could repair infrastructure, end sectarian strife, reduce a massive unemployment rate, and negate the influence of Nazis. Certainly, no one in charge of this war wished for the dozens of German casualties per day — they’re not victims of insanity or evil, as the Jews were during Hitler’s regime. Instead, those Germans are dead as a result of a blithe, sunny optimism that has failed (and continues to fail) to comprehend the facts on the ground in Berlin. But they’re dead all the same.
Which is worse, really, blundering your way through a war or thinking that the right thing was wrong because this war, uniquely in human history, was not perfectly planned and carried off?
NYCBusybody, holding up Dick Cheny and Sean Penn as equal standard bearers for “right” and “left” is really sorta stupid. Let me break it down for you:
Sean Penn = overserious actor who needs to take a chill pill and perhaps rethink his pr strategy
Dick Cheney = Vice President of the most powerful country in the world
(NYCBusybody = douchebag)
Seriously, the last time I remember seeing Sean Penn in anything other than a bad movie trailer was when he was in a sinking rowboat in New Orleans — ALMOST A YEAR AND A HALF AGO. To bring him into your rants is a retarded straw-man argument. Same goes for those “marxists” you bring up every other time you post. Where are they hiding?
Man you’re an idiot.
Thank you for this, for reminding me of how moved we were by his acceptance speech that night. Watching it again on You Tube made me cry and reminded me of the kinds of moments I value the most on the show. I remember how much crap people gave him for that kiss too, and yet watching it again, after all this time, it looked graceful and passionate, beautiful and spontaneous.
President James Polk in 1848 took on Mexico to keep America a sovereign nation, assure its standard of living and that its trade abilities in the future remained strong as such he was called a “War Criminal”. Newspapers
run by the opposition party, the Whigs, fueled this along with a government made up of Whigs who declared he must have a “secret agenda”. The New York Herald Tribune nickname named him “Father of Lies”.
Sound familiar?
“Godwin’s Law”
Yes, why would anyone bring up the Nazis…
…in a thread about THE PIANIST!
Yes, why would anyone bring up the Nazis…
…in a thread about THE PIANIST!
Great point. Provided of course that the subject of Nazis was brought up in discussing the film’s plot and not just to provide some gloss to a bootlicker’s attempt to associate the Jewish Holocaust with Kurdish massacres and, presumeably, Iraq war opponents with Nazi sympathizers. Cos if Nazis were brought up to shore up a pathetic arguement like that, then Godwin’s Law would apply.
It’s not terribly difficult to understand, Brody’s speech dealt with that which the US bares direct responsibilty, it should not be confused with a foreign dictator’s crimes, especially when the action which was the subject of the speech didn’t have anything to do with this atrocity. Remember? WMD? Ringing any bells?And if one cares to look beyond some supposedly accurate % of who supplied arms to Iraq and actually look at US policy
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/
then we might find that we are not so innocent on that point as the WingNuts would have us believe, either.
“Godwin’s Law”
Yes, why would anyone bring up the Nazis…
…in a thread about THE PIANIST!
Fancy tap-dancin’ there, SpinDozer, but there’s a pretty bitter irony in celebrating a film about one Holocaust’s victims while applauding a speech made by its star urging that we do nothing about another holocaust’s victims. So no, I most certainly did not call Hollywood antiwar types Nazis. Not in the least.
I just called them isolationists.
“What did Iraq do to us?” –Susan Sarandon
“These wars in Europe are not wars in which our civilization is defending itself against some Asiatic intruder… This is not a question of banding together to defend the white race against foreign invasion.” –Charles Lindbergh
“…bitter irony in celebrating a film about one Holocaust’s victims while applauding a speech made by its star urging that we do nothing about another holocaust’s victims.”
So, you are claiming that the Iraq war was to do something for the Kurds? There are real estate opportunities for people like you.
‘I just called them isolationists.
“What did Iraq do to us?” –Susan Sarandon
“These wars in Europe are not wars in which our civilization is defending itself against some Asiatic intruder… This is not a question of banding together to defend the white race against foreign invasion.” –Charles Lindbergh’
America First and Lindbergh as isolationists in WWII are frequently portrayed as Nazi-symps so, don’t know that your distinction is reality-based as they say. Iraq did nothing to the US and yet their potential aggression was the reason given for the invasion, not as some kind of Kurd protection crusade as claimed by the less perceptive.
Mgmax:
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War :
An investigation by the Senate Banking Committee in 1994 determined that the U.S. Department of Commerce had approved, for the purpose of research, the shipping of dual-use biological agents to Iraq during the mid-1980s, including Bacillus anthracis (anthrax), later identified by the Pentagon as a key component of the Iraqi biological warfare program, as well as Clostridium botulinum, Histoplasma capsulatum, Brucella melitensis, and Clostridium perfringens. The Committee report noted that each of these had been “considered by various nations for use in war.”[4] Declassified U.S. government documents indicate that the U.S. government had confirmed that Iraq was using chemical weapons (but not biological weapons that the agents being exported could have been used for) “almost daily” during the Iran-Iraq conflict as early as 1983.[5] The chairman of the Senate committee, Don Riegle, said: √¢‚Ǩ≈ìThe executive branch of our government approved 771 different export licenses for sale of dual-use technology to Iraq. I think it√¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s a devastating record√¢‚Ǩ¬ù.[6]
The level of U.S. covert aid to Iraq during this period is difficult to quantify. Hussein is widely known to have received battlefield “intelligence” from the U.S. This, corresponding with other facts, leaks and rumors, is seen by many as an indicator of substantial CIA involvement during the era. This remains unproven, however.
Chiefly, the U.S. government provided Iraq with economic aid. Iraq’s war with Iran, and the consequent disruption in its oil export business, had caused the country to enter a deep debt. U.S. government economic assistance allowed Hussein to continue using resources for the war which otherwise would have to have been diverted. Between 1983 and 1990, Iraq received $5 billion in export credit guarantees from the Commodity Credit Corporation program run by the Department of Agriculture, beginning at $400 million per year in 1983 and increasing to over $1 billion per year in 1988 and 1989, finally coming to an end after another $500 million was granted in 1990.[7] Besides agricultural credits, the U.S. also provided Hussein with other loans. In 1985 the U.S. Export-Import Bank extended more than $684 million in credits to Iraq to build an oil pipeline through Jordan with the construction being undertaken by Californian construction firm Bechtel Corporation.[2]
“I’m glad we got around to righting that wrong, fifteen years later, albeit on false pretenses.”
Um, the U.S. entered WW2 about 3-4 years after Hitler’s program of genocide.
“I only wish we’d done so in a coherent way, with an adequate number of troops,”
Actually, there were plenty of troops, but only because they’d been drafted, as opposed to rich white people letting everyone take their place.
“and a plan for postwar reconstruction,”
The Marshall Plan?
“Certainly, no one in charge of this war wished for the dozens of German casualties per day — ”
The Brits probably didn’t care about what they did at Dresden, anyway.
TKC: “I’m glad we got around to righting that wrong,”
I’m not sure how encouraging a civil war by supporting the Shiites is righting a wrong.
“Certainly, no one in charge of this war wished for the dozens of Iraqi casualties per day –”
So bombing the country’s infrastructure before declaring war so that it couldn’t retaliate was a peaceful measure?
NYC: “It’s not insane to have no feeling for the other side in a culture war.”
So you feel for nazis?
“Don’t pretend that majority of liberals wouldn’t care if Dick Cheney died.”
He’s old, and he has a pacemaker. Why should anyone care? When he’s willing to take on some IEDs instead of the 18-30 year olds he’s sending in his place, then we’ll talk.
“I certainly do no advocate the murder of anyone I don’t like, but would I care if Sean Penn died in a car accident? Of course not.”
I wouldn’t either, but at least I’d respect him for doing something meaningful with his money.
“And calling Bush a terrorist who should be executed for war crimes is a fair criticism for Marxist leftists who are fighting the culture war.”
Yes, because torture or torching a village isn’t a war crime, huh?
donny: “President James Polk in 1848 took on Mexico to keep America a sovereign nation,”
I thought it’s because he didn’t like the fact that Mexico banned slavery.
D.Z., I’m not going to answer entire articles pasted in; Saddam was overwhelmingly a Soviet client, as anyone but the entire American Left seems to remember, but to demonstrate that as usual you’re playing from an insufficiently informed position (but with great confidence)…
“”and a plan for postwar reconstruction,”"
“The Marshall Plan?”
V-E Day, the day the war ended in Europe, was May 8, 1945.
How long after that do you think the Marshall Plan started? A week? A month?
More than two years.
The only people who think this war has been a uniquely disastrous are those who know nothing about war throughout history, and consequently have wildly inaccurate ideas of what it should be like.
Fancy tap-dancin’ there, SpinDozer, but there’s a pretty bitter irony in celebrating a film about one Holocaust’s victims while applauding a speech made by its star urging that we do nothing about another holocaust’s victims. So no, I most certainly did not call Hollywood antiwar types Nazis. Not in the least.
I just called them isolationists.
“What did Iraq do to us?” –Susan Sarandon
“These wars in Europe are not wars in which our civilization is defending itself against some Asiatic intruder… This is not a question of banding together to defend the white race against foreign invasion.” –Charles Lindbergh
“The only people who think this war has been a uniquely disastrous are those who know nothing about war throughout history, and consequently have wildly inaccurate ideas of what it should be like.”
Yup, only the 20-25% of Americans who approve of the war and its conduct ‘know something about history and have accurate ideas of what it should be like’. You are aces, dude. Where did you learn history, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, PowerLine? As fucked up as Vietnam was, only the most egregiously incompetant shitberg would claim that this war is less so. Don’t even bother responding, go over to a WingNut board and try out your “history” there, its extremely doubtful that dumb as they may be that you will get any takers.
Amen Spindozer!!! MgMax’s last claim was simultaneously arrogant and retarded, and I’m glad you called him on it.
Mgmax: “Saddam was overwhelmingly a Soviet client, as anyone but the entire American Left seems to remember,”
Is that why the CIA helped him overthrow a democratic government and backed his war against the Ayatollah?
“How long after that do you think the Marshall Plan started? A week? A month?More than two years.”
The U.S. had to deal with Nuremberg and co-establishing the U.N. during that same period.
D.Z., I’m not going to answer entire articles pasted in; Saddam was overwhelmingly a Soviet client, as anyone but the entire American Left seems to remember, but to demonstrate that as usual you’re playing from an insufficiently informed position (but with great confidence)…
“”and a plan for postwar reconstruction,”"
“The Marshall Plan?”
V-E Day, the day the war ended in Europe, was May 8, 1945.
How long after that do you think the Marshall Plan started? A week? A month?
More than two years.
The only people who think this war has been a uniquely disastrous are those who know nothing about war throughout history, and consequently have wildly inaccurate ideas of what it should be like.
Godwin’s Law 2: the discussion is over when, instead of making logical arguments, someone wields the name Limbaugh, Hannity, O’Reilly or Coulter as a weapon.
Michael Moore Jane Fonda Noam Chomsky! There, I kicked your ass. Yeehaa!
Godwin’s Law 2: the discussion is over when, instead of making logical arguments, someone wields the name Limbaugh, Hannity, O’Reilly or Coulter as a weapon.
Michael Moore Jane Fonda Noam Chomsky! There, I kicked your ass. Yeehaa!