Moore, Weinstein, Clinton
In a N.Y. Times story today (5.22) about Michael Moore‘s Sicko, reporter Liza Klaussmann says that TWC honcho Harvey Weinstein, a supporter of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, “tried to persuade Moore to revise the film’s depiction of Mrs. Clinton.”
The story explains that “the early part of the film unrolls as a virtual love letter to Mrs. Clinton, chronicling her efforts as first lady to stage an overhaul of the health care system, but the tone changes as the film proceeds, lumping her among the members of Congress who, Sicko contends, are financially beholden to insurers.”
This more or less concurs with what Moore told Variety interview Peter Bart at an American Pavillion dialogue held yesterday. The story varies slightly in that Moore said Weinstein wanted him to excise the negative stuff about Clinton, but “he respects me as a filmmaker and wouldn’t do that.” Not turn on the full pressure, he meant. Here’s a recording of the chat.
At least you guys have real candidates. My best bets are the mobbed up former Mayor of NYC and a guy who played his DA on tv.
Well call me crazy, Jayne, but having the worst candidate in history didn’t stop you from taking the throne for the last two terms. I’m sure you could get a few more lame ducks through the gate.
As a _candidate_ he wasn’t the worst in history.
*gasp* Harvey trying to cut what he doesn’t like from someone else’s work?! Anyway, Hillary’s almost as much of a sell-out as McCain.
jeff: Yeah, well, it’s kind of tough for Bush to compete with Andrew Jackson in terms of kills, but he tries.
DZ: Your Andrew Jackson doesn’t make sense. I don’t even know what you’re trying to say. My point was that Bush, with his lavish funding, connections, and regular-guy appeal, was a pretty good candidate (better than Kerry or Adlai Stevenson or Herbert Hoover ’32). He’s a failure at everything else, but decent as a politician.
Your brand of rhetorical nonsense is infuriating.
jeff: “DZ: Your Andrew Jackson doesn’t make sense.”
A guy who violated the constitution to start a genocidal war to steal people’s land doesn’t make sense to you?
“My point was that Bush, with his lavish funding, connections, and regular-guy appeal, was a pretty good candidate (better than Kerry or Adlai Stevenson or Herbert Hoover ’32)”
I’m not really sure how he’s better. At least Hoover knew when he wasn’t wanted anymore, Kerry actually served in ‘Nam, and Stevenson would do something about global warming if he were running today.
“He’s a failure at everything else, but decent as a politician.”
i would say he’s a failure even at that.
DZ, you’re trying to change the subject to talk about unrelated things. Stop it.
Hoover _didn’t_ know when he was unwanted or he wouldn’t have run again in 1932. Kerry was a crappy candidate who should have been able to win, and global warming is out of left field. I’m sure all three of them were/are better _people_ than Bush, but THAT’S NOT THE POINT.
We need to get D.Z. and jeffmcm in a room together someday. I don’t think I’ve ever seen such consistent internet message board enmity.
So Moore, Weinstein and Clinton are full-of-shit elitist sophists. Hel-LO? Now, realizing that, where do we go for the REAL news? It ain’t gonna come from Cannes, or from the campaign trail.
no, joshua, you have to go to FOX to get the fair and balanced version of the real news…
“At least you guys have real candidates. My best bets are the mobbed up former Mayor of NYC and a guy who played his DA on tv.”
And they’re falling all over themselves to kiss up to the far-right theocrats who decide the primaries in states like South Carolina. Maybe your party is trying to tell you something, like it’s time to get out.
except all these holy rollers couldn’t be bothered to show up for falwell’s funeral after praising him.
gee, isn’t flip-flopping a wonderful thing? i’m glad now the rovians brought up that meme.
Giuliani, McCain, and Ron Paul deserve credit for sticking to their beliefs on unpopular (within the GOP) issues like, respectively, abortion, torture, and Iraq. Each of them clearly shows more integrity than a blatant panderer like Romney.
and you see how the gop treats those with differing viewpoints: paul’s a pariah they’re trying to bar from future debates; mcain is despised by the pro-torture christian base; and guiliani will never be accepted in the south because of his stance on gun control and gay rights.
which leaves romney, thompson and hopefully newt.
Politics….whooo hoooo!!!!
to paraphrase kurt russell from DP, “so jeff…how…about…that…review.”
My father is a doctor and he was horrified by Hilary’s Clinton’s early efforts to reform medical care. He said she didn’t even consult with doctors, she was consulting with the business practioners of medicine.
Christian: Are you suggesting that I’m a conservative? You couldn’t be more wrong.
[no, joshua, you have to go to FOX to get the fair and balanced version of the real news...
Posted by: christian at May 22, 2007 12:46 PM]
based on your previous posts and “So Moore, Weinstein and Clinton are full-of-shit elitist sophists” makes me think you lean a tad right…
Christian, that’s a fairly reductive analysis of where I’m coming from, but, based on what I’ve posted, perhaps it’s accurate. Who am I to say? If that’s the way you’ve taken my posts, so be it, so mote it be. You’re one of the few sane people here, so if you’d like to talk more, please email me. For the record, I’m not “a tad right.” I’m much farther to the left of Jeff.
[based on your previous posts and "So Moore, Weinstein and Clinton are full-of-shit elitist sophists" makes me think you lean a tad right...
Posted by: christian at May 22, 2007 02:29 PM]
Joshua,
Christian’s mistake is an easy one to make. I’ve long assumed the same.
Ditto.
Although I’m sure you’re still too conservative for DZ. Heyo with the zinger!
jeff: “Hoover _didn’t_ know when he was unwanted or he wouldn’t have run again in 1932.”
He may have run for a second term, but he probably could tell he was unpopular. Bush has only about 25% of support from the public, and he still won’t listen.
“Kerry was a crappy candidate who should have been able to win,”
I’m sure that even if the Dems came up with someone with more balls, the American public would have still picked Bush, because gay marriage was more important to them than a stable economy or their family members coming home alive from Iraq.
It’s a shame that it’s taken 25+ years for the public to realize that Reaganomics doesn’t work, but if Katrina was the only way for them to realize they were wrong, so be it. Unfortunately, it might take a failed nuclear war for the neo-cons to realize they were wrong.
“Giuliani, McCain, and Ron Paul deserve credit for sticking to their beliefs on unpopular (within the GOP) issues like, respectively, abortion, torture, and Iraq. Each of them clearly shows more integrity than a blatant panderer like Romney.”
Yeah, people who think that killing a fetus is wrong, but bombing civilians is fine should always be commended. BTW, Rudy is actually pro-abortion, and has supported family programs in NYC, but he’ll do anything to win when he’s not busy sending his police squad to sodomoze Haitian immigrants or shoot suspects who try to get their I.D. out when asked.
Joshua: If you were left of Jeff, you wouldn’t be trashing Moore.
SHUT UP!
I will pay you $100 dollars to not post for a month.
D.Z. really does represent the utterly insane moonbat fringe well. It’s amazing someone can be so sick inside and still walk the Earth.
i stand corrected joshua. i’d have to scour previous posts for proof which is way too anal , but i recall debates with you taking a rightish stance.
D.Z., Bush’s approval ratings are more like 33%. Your precious Bela Pelosi has driven Congress’ numbers down to about 29. It would seem the American public is just sick of everytbody. Still, 33! KNEEL! KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!
By the way, no one hates Jackson more than I do (I think his prescence on the 20 is a disgrace), but he was one of the greatest campaigners of all time. You should revere him, he invented the modern Democratic Party. Bush as a campaigner is in his own way very talented. Hes much more relaxed than you might think. You should see him in person. Though that’s probably hard with you being on a Secret Service watch list and all.
Jayne: “You should revere him, he invented the modern Democratic Party.”
More like the Democratic Party which supported slavery, segregation, Japanese-American internment, and the Vietnam war.
“Bush as a campaigner is in his own way very talented.”
No, Rove is talented. Bush is a moron without him.
If that were true, don’t you think Rove could have picked a much better star to hitch his wagon to?
Amazing, what you guys read into anything I’ve ever posted here. Politics? I could give a fuck. Rightwing/leftwing? Opinions on Jeff’s site? Give me a fucking break. I mean, I guess I could say that most of what Godard did after “Weekend” bores the shit out of me, but that doesn’t make me a fascist, does it? For the record, if I had to vote now, I’d vote for Edwards. I like him, PLUS I spend $210 on my haircuts, not counting the $40 tip. I voted for John Anderson in ’84, Jesse Jackson in ’88, Bill Clinton in ’92, and Norman Mailer in ’96 (I think that one was a write-in). I take a “rightish” stance on Jeff’s site? Why? Because I adore Hal Hartley and Whit Stillman and puke over “Spiderman” and the like? Fuck you. I’ll drink any of you neo-libs under any table you’ve got, boy-eeee!
Name brand recognition counts for a lot. You get a head start when your product not only comes from a family with a ton of money, but also has the same name as their most previously successful product.
I dont think anyone would seriously aruge that George H.W. Bush was a successful product. I drive by the George Bush Center for Intelligence here in Virginia a couple times a week and just cackle.
I dont think anyone would seriously argue that George H.W. Bush was a successful product. I drive by the ‘George Bush Center for Intelligence’ here in Virginia a couple times a week and just cackle.
Apologies for the double post.
Is troll Jayne Gacey saying Guiliani is mobbed up because he’s Italian? Because Rudy was a major enemy of the mob when he was a US Attorney, so I don’t know where Jayne Gacey is getting his rotten information.
Actually Devin I am saying Giuliani is mobbed-up because of Bernard Kerik, who is currently under investigation for his ties to the mob. I know Giuliani was a major crusader against Gotti and his ilk in the ’80s, and he has major cajones. His being mobbed-up is really just a function of his carelessness and poor judgement in the people he chooses to surround himself with. How on earth did you get that I thought all Italians were mobsters? Go protest the Sopranos, Devin.
By the way Devin, troll is the “nigger” of the internet, so please choose your words more carefully. We’re all adults here. And please die in a plane crash.
I wish ‘troll’ was the n-word of the internet, it would mean that I could get a rise out of DZ when I call him a lousy moronic troll (which he is).
$150?
For what it’s worth Joshua I never had you pegged as a righty. I’m not always 100% sure when you’re being serious and when you’re yanking someone’s chain, but that would accurately describe just about everyone around here.
I’m sure you weren’t looking for my validation, but congratulations, you’ve just gotten it free of charge.
For what it’s worth Joshua I never had you pegged as a righty. I’m not always 100% sure when you’re being serious and when you’re yanking someone’s chain, but that would accurately describe just about everyone around here.
I’m sure you weren’t looking for my validation, but congratulations, you’ve just gotten it free of charge.
that doesn’t mean i can’t smoke you out over the table joshua. booyah!
Hey cj: You’ve quite correctly noted that I have been a chain-yanker here, and I gotta apologize for that. Whatever my motivations, the results are more often than not beneath both myself, and Jeff’s fine site, which I’ve always enjoyed. Whatever juice I might get out of making myself chuckle, I should in the end ask myself if the game is worth the candle. Certainly the standard I apply to everyone else in the known universe. So, as Chollie Watts said of Barger in “Gimme Shelter,” I now say to you: “Well done, Sonny.”
[For what it's worth Joshua I never had you pegged as a righty. I'm not always 100% sure when you're being serious and when you're yanking someone's chain, but that would accurately describe just about everyone around here.
I'm sure you weren't looking for my validation, but congratulations, you've just gotten it free of charge.
Posted by: cjKennedy at May 23, 2007 12:11 AM]
anyone interested in healthcare?
apparently the American system means that Americans are not as tall as they once were……..
http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,484168,00.html
Interesting, I went to Italy a few years ago and seemed to tower over everyone there (and I’m of average height) so I suppose their system is lagging behind northern Europe.
DZ: Sigh…I mean, what’s that even mean? Anyone left of Jeff HAS to agree with Moore? Who else? Ralph Nadir?
“I see what I see, I hear what I hear. And then I make up my mind.”–Fred Gwynne in “The Cotton Club.”
[Joshua: If you were left of Jeff, you wouldn't be trashing Moore.
Posted by: D.Z. at May 22, 2007 04:49 PM]
If Michael Moore makes Hillary Clinton look bad, that will probably HELP her campaign given Moore’s lack of credibility with mainstream audiences (fair or not).
so it was fringe audiences who shelled out over 100 million dollars for FARENHEIT 9/11?
fringiest crowd i’ve ever seen at the grove…
christian: Probably fringe leftie red-staters. Everyone else was getting off on Mel’s Jesus torture movie.
SHUT UP!
$100 for one DZ-free day?
Seriously, I don’t even know what your last post means. Christian’s post was obviously that Michael Moore attracted a big mainstream crowd for F911, so your post was meant to…rebut that? So Michael Moore isn’t left-wing enough for you? Or were you just looking for a way to go after Mel Gibson?
Let me emphasize – I don’t have a problem with 80% of the _content_ of what you say. It’s the horrible _way you say things_ and your disregard for _making credible arguments to support your positions_ that infuriate me.
The RW Josh is Massey, not Joshua Mooney. All you freakin Josh’s look alike in cyberspace.
‘Giuliani, McCain, and Ron Paul deserve credit for sticking to their beliefs on unpopular (within the GOP) issues like, respectively, abortion, torture, and Iraq. Each of them clearly shows more integrity than a blatant panderer like Romney.’
Damn them all with faint praise.
Jools & McCain have done their share of marketing, too. Don’t know shit about Paul, but the Loonies on this site hate him and that’s promising. But yeah, awl God’s Chilluns got more integrity than Romney.
‘He’s a failure at everything else, but decent as a politician.”
i would say he’s a failure even at that.’
I think you’ve got the wrong yardstick. In traditional politics, you try to stitch together various interests to form a majority; these folks do not care about appealing to much of anyone…they just want their way. I thought Clinton was politically skilled…
These guys are sooo into discipline. Didja notice how when they were “riding high” after 9-11 and the synch-o-phantic media would ask them about whether it felt good to be so popular, they stuck with the script & insisted they didn’t care about polling. And now that every disastrous proposal they trot out to near universal condemnation (Splurge/Guest Slave/Iran arming the Baathist, support Gonzo, etc. effing etc.) they can repeat the twaddle and act like they are principalled rather than arrogant jerks bent on, wot’s the word DZ (?), sodomizing the US. It’s breathtaking. It’s like, really, really good synchronized swimming, Real Horrorshow.
jeff: “Christian’s post was obviously that Michael Moore attracted a big mainstream crowd for F911, so your post was meant to…rebut that?”
No, I’m just making it clear that, while F 9/11 was successful, it didn’t change the minds of the people who ended up voting for Bush. That probably means they were going to vote for Bush, anyway, but now I know how the “good” Germans felt when Hitler’s party won.
“So Michael Moore isn’t left-wing enough for you? Or were you just looking for a way to go after Mel Gibson?”
I didn’t feel his movie was left-wing enough for me. He actually was trying to play to much to the red-staters, by showing how awful Bush was on defense, when he should have went for a more populist route and emphasized his shitty domestic policies. As for Mel’s flick, I just find it ironic that the public thought watching it would somehow be a sign of solidarity against the “liberal” media for daring to question an imperialistic leader, even though Jesus was pretty much doing the same thing.
by god spindozer, you’re right.
many appy polly loggies joshua. i did confuse you with massey. i mean how many similar josh m-y names could be on one site?
but dz, i would be on that 100 dollar a day thing.
Massey/Mooney. That explains it. Plus, the other Josh seems to have vanished, and I’m under the impression (possibly incorrect) that you popped up fairly recently.
And speaking of, where did Jayne Gacy suddenly come from, acting like a comfortable old farmhand on Ranch Elsewhere? An old regular under a new name, perhaps?
You hear that, DZ? You now have an offer to not post for one day for $200. I’ll up the ante another $50.
What does it tell you that people are willing to spend $250 to be rid of you for one day?
In other news, I don’t understand what this means:
“I just find it ironic that the public thought watching it would somehow be a sign of solidarity against the “liberal” media for daring to question an imperialistic leader, even though Jesus was pretty much doing the same thing.”
Huh? Who are you talking about? People went to see Passion of the Christ because the country has a lot of Christians in it. You don’t sell $370 million dollars worth of tickets to people who see a movie out of spite.
Fuck it, I’ll raise again: $200 from me and $100 from Christian if he’s still interested = $300 for you to not post for one day.
DZ, people like you are ruining the world. By which I mean, stubborn zealots who refuse to have conversations in favor of arrogant , repetitive one-sided monologues all day, every day.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
jeff: “What does it tell you that people are willing to spend $250 to be rid of you for one day?”
It tells me that they think I’m easily bought, and that they hate anyone who thinks outside the box?
“You don’t sell $370 million dollars worth of tickets to people who see a movie out of spite.”
It worked for “A Birth of a Nation”.
Thanks for two good examples about how uninterested you are in anything resembling dialogue or human interaction by tossing off both comments with glib jokes.
You don’t think outside the box. You think inside a different, smaller box.
Nobody saw Birth of a Nation out of spite. They saw it because it was unlike anything that had ever been seen before.
Is this the way you want to live your life?
jeff: “Is this the way you want to live your life?”
It beats having to be a doormat.
$300 for one day of work is more than the vast bulk of the world’s population can command. $300 to do nothing is position of luxury. This is not ‘easily bought’.
Name your price.
Nobody is asking you to be a doormat. I’m asking you to behave like a rational human being who is able to hold a conversation with another rational human being.
There is nothing more pointless in the world than asking an intransigent person to change their behavior; nonetheless I’m asking to see if there is anything inside of you that can respond to a simple human plea.
Please.
How does all this make you feel?
Are you 37 years old with two cats and a dog?
jeff: “Name your price.”
I don’t have a price. Expressing my opinions is its own reward.
“Nobody is asking you to be a doormat. I’m asking you to behave like a rational human being who is able to hold a conversation with another rational human being.”
Been there, done that. No one cares, unless you tell them what they want to hear. And then you gradually stop being yourself in the process. What’s the point? To make superficial friendships and relationships which ultimately fail and leave the other person in a better position than you?
If “expressing my opinions is its own reward” then that tells me you are satisfied living your life inside an echo-chamber. Your opinions are not stimulating or discursive; you are essentially only talking to yourself. You should attempt to reach farther than that.
If “been there, done that” is your response to ‘holding a normal conversation’ that’s pretty sad. Once again, said this before, but it’s not the substance of your remarks that is a problem, but the attitude and manner in which you express yourself. Let’s try this, on the subject of Roman Polanski:
version A, something you’ve said recently: “He’s an asshole who thinks making a holocaust movie lets him get off from his kiddie-rape charges”
Incendiary, abrasive, and obnoxious.
version B: “I don’t care for Roman Polanski’s films because of his unresolved rape charges”
Same content, different expression. One sounds like an asshole who’s sole intent is to annoy people. The other sounds like a person expressing an opinion which could lead to a further discussion, or not, but isn’t begging for attention and responses.
It’s your choice. I believe that the highest good in the world is to enlighten other people, to educate and inform, and the best way to do that in a civilized forum is through respectful adult discussion which you have thus far appeared to have a total disinterest in. I’m trying to reach out to you here.
Please.
“you gradually stop being yourself in the process. What’s the point? To make superficial friendships and relationships which ultimately fail and leave the other person in a better position than you?”
This is very revealing, and more than a little sad.
Let me conclude by saying I’m hoping to appeal to your better nature. The part of you that is interested in actually sharing your ideas to an audience that is receptive to them instead of having a knee-jerk repulsion; the kind that appreciates art and literature and wants to share their complexities and beauties with other people; the type that wants to work towards a progressive future and is aware that it takes more than name-calling to make that happen.
I hope you can do more than just brush this all off with a glib, superior retort. I apologize for every mean thing I’ve ever said to you but you have to understand: there is nothing in the world I find more frustrating than a lack of communication, which is what we currently have.
Christ, I have to get off blogs.
Do you blog alone? Do you find that when you start blogging, you can’t stop? Do you blog to get blunk?
The first step is admitting you have a problem.
Reading a post from jeffmcm or DZ makes the head spin. I now know why most people think blogs are crap. People like jeffmcm and DZ posting and shouting down others for their opinions. Relax there. No one really cares about your left wing dribble.
except you.
Dave Polands Gut, do you live in suburban Long Island by any chance?
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