Hold up there….

If you’re talking spiritual analogies, Barack Obama is a little more Bobby than Jack Kennedy. In 1968, Of course. And if you really run with that analogy, as a critic friend explained this afternoon, you have to accept that Hillary Clinton is Richard Nixon.

46 thoughts on “Hold up there….

  1. D.Z. on said:

    I was thinking George Wallace, after her recent comments…

  2. No, she’s Hubert Humphrey.
    It’s going to be awfully hard to take this site seriously if Clinton wins the nomination and Wells tries to convince us all how much better she is than the evil, Nixonish McCain.

  3. If Hillary gets the nomination, I’m going to start working on figuring a rationale for voting for John McCain. I’m not saying that such a rationale is createable, but I’m going to start trying to piece it together.

  4. It’s certainly createable, but it would also be a repudiation of a huge amount of stuff you’ve written in the past on any number of policies.
    Do you really want John McCain picking the next two Supreme Court Justices?

  5. gruver: The only hope I have for McCain is that he’d get us out of Iraq, Ike-style. I don’t think he’d do much more than that, but at least he wouldn’t stack the courts, either.

  6. jeff: I have a feeling McCain’s picks would be more moderate than those of Bush. It’s his environmental record which is the real concern.

  7. DZ, I’m going to do an impression of you:
    “The only hope I have for McCain is that he’d get us out of Iraq, Ike-style.”
    Too bad he says he wants us to be there for a hundred years, and um, Ike got us into Vietnam.
    You’re in over your head, Donny.

  8. Oh, and technically, LBJ got us into Vietnam. As for the hundred years comment, well he knows he’s almost there himself, so I imagine he really wants to do something which will make him look heroic, which is getting America out in a way which he can bullshit as having “won” without actually doing anything.

  9. They are scum, but some are smarter than others; and I’d rather take someone who knows the score over someone full of blood lust.

  10. I started to write something but then I remembered the rule about how it’s futile to counter anything Daniel Zelter writes with facts or logic so I’m going to wrap things up for the night.

  11. So if Obama is JFK, are we destined to see Shia LaBeouf’s flailing ensemble drama ‘Barack’ in cinemas come the 2030s?

  12. Yes! No more Bush-Clinton-Bush dynasties. We need someone fresh, something new, bring on the Kennedies! Seriously, if I was an American I would vote for Obama at this point, but boy there is a lot of focus on political royalty.

  13. I was thinking George Wallace, after her recent comments…
    I was thinking Lurleen Wallace, after HIS recent comments.

  14. News flash to Wells;
    Obama can’t carry Florida. Crushed here. Just crushed. He can’t win the White House.
    McCain was always more a loyal Republican than a statesman, giving Bush a pass on all manner of law-bendings and slippery deals just so he could entice the faithful to drink the Kool-Ade with him in ’08.
    Stop with the swooning and get real. Otherwise, there’ll be no Obama on the ticket or campaigning for the ticket, no black turnout in November and 4 more years of the national nightmare.

  15. As a conservative, I’m having a real lousy day. I admire John McCain– hell, we all do– but he’s not a conservative. Nothing wrong with that, doesn’t make him a bad guy (for many of you, including Jeff, it’ll make him an okay guy to vote for), but I just don’t see how I can support him.
    I spent eight years supporting Bush just because I support the war, and he was better than the moonbats loose in the Democratic Party. That said, any conservative can tell you that Bush’s “compassionate conservatism” has ruined what little was left of a once-proud intellectual tradition.
    Now, if McCain becomes POTUS, that means at least 4-to-8 more years of a GOP President giving the Democrats everything they want. Will he still be “good” on the war? Yes– and that’s important– but what about taxes? What about entitlements? Great, McCain hates pork, but an earmark is a trifle compared to hundreds of billions of dollars each year spent automatically.
    As for judges, given McCain’s recent comment to WSJ’s John Fund (that he didn’t like judges “like Alito, who wear their conservatism on their sleeve”– huh?!?), none of you have to worry. McCain’s picks will be strictly in the David Souter mold, meaning just as good as if Hillary or Obama made them. Remember– he can’t appoint any REAL conservative judges because they’d all chuckle while overturning his unconstitutional campaign finance reforms.
    As for the environment, what do you mean he’s not good on the environment? He’s the only GOP candidate who talks about climate change as a government responsibility. Trust me, he’ll be a squish when it comes to the environmental lobby, probably the best GOP President you could get in that regard.
    One final point– if November comes down to between McCain and Clinton, it’ll be tight, because while Clinton will motivate the GOP, McCain will depress them in nearly equal amounts. I’d still call a McCain victory, only because an equal phenomenon will be happening on the left– after this primary season. all the folks (like Jeff) who loved Obama will be disillusioned by four more years of Clinton in the White House.
    The old adage– Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line– will be tested with such a matchup.
    McCain vs. Obama? Obama pastes him. Too old next to too young? Young will win.
    Jeff, here’s your thought experiment to run: since McCain, Clinton and Obama are all largely Democrats, your choice comes down to two items: can you like the person, and can you support them given their positions on the war? That’s going to be the ONLY serious difference between a McCain administration and either of the Democratic ones.
    (Even then, we ain’t leaving Iraq anytime soon no matter WHO gets elected, not even Obama. Better deal with the real world folks).

  16. “McCain was always more a loyal Republican than a statesman”
    What’s the sky like in that fantasy world?
    John McCain has made a *career* by thumbing the eyes of Republicans, and especially conservatives. He would much rather be loved by Chris Matthews than Rush Limbaugh. As sad as it is for me to say it, after last night, McCain proved that he can win a Republican primary season *while never getting a majority of Republicans to vote for him*. Not once, in any state, did McCain get more Republicans to vote for him than any other candidate– instead, his victories have all been combos of independents, GOP, and even aisle-crossing Democrats.
    McCain is loyal to himself, and his own primadonna complex. I’ve spent a dozen years working with the Hill, and it’s no secret: the man is a petty, spiteful, temper-losing bully. Great American? Sure. Sore loser and grudge-holder? Yes.
    I can’t wait for his temper to come out. It’ll be fun to watch.

  17. If Rush Limbaugh is the best example you can give as a model Conservative than God save the Conservatives. I didn’t know conservative was synonymous with douchebag.
    I’m not a huge McCain fan but look who else the Republican party is offering up. Romney? Give me a break. The best thing one can say about McCain is that he really is a straight-shooter (I forgive him much of his election pandering) and if he gets in the White House I really think he’ll do what he thinks best for the american people . . . regardless of what all the special interests want.
    Still, I can get too excited about the whole race. I’m still so giddy at the prospect of Dubya finally taking a hike (with the legacy of being one of the worst presidents of all time hung around his neck) that anyone seems like a step up.

  18. Krazy Eyes– don’t make the mistake of shooting the message with the messenger. Regardless of your personal dislike of Rush Limbaugh, his voice has always been a reliable barometer for the non-religious conservative wing of the Republican Party.
    “The best thing one can say about McCain is that he really is a straight-shooter (I forgive him much of his election pandering)”
    So. . . he’s a straight-shooter, except when he’s not. Right.
    “if he gets in the White House I really think he’ll do what he thinks best for the american people”
    I agree. But what he thinks is best doesn’t match up with what most conservatives think is best.
    “regardless of what all the special interests want.”
    There used to be a point in American history when we called special interests “the people.”

  19. a little late in the thread but, just for the record, it was truman who got us into viet nam… to help the french (another thing they’ve never said ‘thank you’ for)……

  20. Bernie: He’s not running in Florida.
    Dave: “As for the environment, what do you mean he’s not good on the environment?”
    He doesn’t mind poisoning Native Americans.

  21. McCain has a really good shot at winning the general election, especially if Hillary is the nominee on the other side. All of the things about McCain that have Rush Limbaugh & co. pulling their hair out will become huge assets for him as soon as he makes the pivot from the primaries to the general.
    He has taken moderate stances on immigration, on taxes, and on global warming. He’ll scoop up independents and disaffected young voters who will feel crushed after Hillary beats Obama.
    The Democrats have to start asking themselves who can best beat McCain in an 8-month campaign. If Obama doesn’t say something to the effect of, “We can’t beat John McCain by nominating someone who voted with him on the Iraq War,” tomorrow night, he’s crazy.

  22. “If you’re talking spiritual analogies, Barack Obama is a little more Bobby than Jack Kennedy. In 1968, Of course. And if you really run with that analogy, as a critic friend explained this afternoon, you have to accept that Hillary Clinton is Richard Nixon.”
    Please tell your critic friend he is a fucking moron. And then say, “Don’t worry. I am too.”
    The Obama/JFK comparison is just a dumb pop song that caught on. It’s based on absolutely nothing. It’s propaganda. It’s easy to understand than, say, what really matters – Obama’s record, experience, how he might actually lead the country. But why get into to all that when you can just look at the pretty packaging? And then, of course, when the packaging starts to tear because of the rigors of the Presidency – and the underneath stuff starts to poke through, everyone can complain about President Obama and look towards the next election where were, again, handed our “choices” from the approved pool of corporate-backed vessels.
    This blog is a fucking joke. And I say this as a liberal and a person who isn’t pro-Hillary or anti-Obama. Wells constantly calling people in this country dumb and unintelligent for liking Hillary over Obama reads as fear-induced, moronic, baseless coffee shop talk. Sip some cappuccino, talk shallow pool politics for 15 minutes, then off to Target for a new TV stand. It’s distraction. It’s a time killer. It√ɬ¢√¢‚Äö¬¨√¢‚Äû¬¢s passion based on make believe.

  23. Jeff – I’m going to vote for Obama, but the more of this over-the-top Hillary is evil bullshit I hear from his supporters (like yourself), the more it makes me want to change my vote. Get some perspective and don’t turn everything into a CNN crossfire segment.

  24. What Pete said, but with less anger. And what scares the shit out of me is hearing my liberal friends tell me, “Well, I like McCain…”
    Yes, he was funny on SNL. Remember his theme song, “Bomb Iran.”
    BTW, Bobby had a more prominent role with JFK and thus had the spotlight/experience cred that Obama is criticized for lacking.
    And if Obama were to win the nomination, I would vote for him just to stop this Cloverfield-like GOP. Ditto Clinton. Then I’d get drunk.

  25. Comping Obama to RFK makes sense if you know nothing about RFK. I said it a couple of weeks back, they are both Humphrey. If McCain were Nixon and nominated a Thurgood Marshall, and outflanked the left by being somewhat more progressive than they, he’d be a bargain. As it is, I’ll have the Humphrey that can beat McCain, and that sure as shit ain’t Obama.

  26. Christian, you’ll be getting drunk anyway…
    SD, I know you said “can beat” and not “will beat,” but thought it should be of mild interest (this early) to note that Rasmussen poll shows McCain with a 7-pt lead over Hillary.
    Wells, you got your wish, Edwards is out…although maybe TOO soon without enough delegates to hand over…40% of his supporters prefer Hillary to Obama while just 25% go the other way…Hard to believe less than 1/3 of the remaing group would pick Hillary…this is worse for the Obama camp than NH, Nevada, or uncontested Fla.
    In the words of the legendary Scott Stapp, maybe six feet ain’t so far down…

  27. News flash to Wells;
    Obama can’t carry Florida. Crushed here. Just crushed. He can’t win the White House.
    McCain was always more a loyal Republican than a statesman, giving Bush a pass on all manner of law-bendings and slippery deals just so he could entice the faithful to drink the Kool-Ade with him in ’08.
    Stop with the swooning and get real. Otherwise, there’ll be no Obama on the ticket or campaigning for the ticket, no black turnout in November and 4 more years of the national nightmare.

  28. Wells to Jay T.: The support of fence-sitters like yourself is next to worthless. If you want to join the under-educated rube women and Hispanics and vote for Hillary…go to town. In my view anyone who’s saying at this stage “I’m still not 100% sure” or “I might change my vote next week” is a dilletante. If the shoe fits, put it on. To thine own self be true.

  29. Wells: I don’t think it does much good to personally attack or denigrate those who are supporting Hillary. Not saying it’s wrong to feel angry, but probably counterproductive to project that anger publicly. I have to agree with you though on the “undecided” vote. Undecided? Are you kidding me? This has been going on for months and months. OK, there may not be a lick of policy difference between the two, but on style, tone, electability and pure inspiration? Please.
    Rocco: I have a strong sense of dread that Edwards’ decision to drop out will hurt Obama. I know there’s about a dozen cases to be made for this hurting either side, but all in all I think it’s still too soon for Obama to be one-on-one with Hillary from a delegate-gathering perspective. Just look at how useful Edwards was for Obama in South Carolina.

  30. As I said in one of the other threads, one of the reasons the “rubes” aren’t flocking to Obama is because of his pro-Reagan rhetoric. It’s not because they’re stupid.

  31. Pete: You’re just pissed, because Edwards lost.
    christian: Bobby was good at rigging Texas for his brother and selling out the Freedom Riders, but that’s about it.
    Spin: Humphrey didn’t suggest we should negotiate with the enemy like Obama.
    rocco: “Wells, you got your wish, Edwards is out…although maybe TOO soon without enough delegates to hand over…40% of his supporters prefer Hillary to Obama while just 25% go the other way..”
    I knew Edwards supporters were delusional, but I didn’t think they were insane.
    BNick: The only thing Edwards did for Obama was to enable Hillary’s race card.

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