More Bitter
This Bill Maher “New Rules” clip is only nine days old — is that so bad? Yes, yes…I should have posted it earlier. But the riff about class and elitism that Maher delivered at midpointabout the Barack Obama/Reagan Democrats “bittergate” scandal is, for my money, gospel. Best line: “You know who is bitter in America? I am. Because shit-kickers voted twice for a retarded guy they wanted to have a beer with, and everybody else had to suffer the consequences!”
Great line… there’s actually several in that clip (“The President inherited the White House, but he’s not an elitist because he can’t read or write!”)
I haven’t seen anybody say this, though it seems so obvious that I can’t imagine no one will.
Al Sharpton is about to decide whether or not Obama is president. That is, what Obama decides about Sharpton will decide.
Sharpton’s going to cause a big ugly scene in New York, the kind that’s gotten people killed before. And middle-westerners and low-thread-counters and ordinary decent folk all over this country are going to be reminded why they moved out of or stayed out of cities dominated by urban political machines that pay homage to race hustlers like Sharpton.
And Obama will be presented with the mother of all Sister Souljah moments, to mix my metaphors.
Will he take it? Or will he triangulate it?
This weekend’s Real Time was the funniest I’d seen in awhile. My favorite bit was Huffington saying that Maher has slept with more black women than Barack Obama. Probably true!
Jeff could learn a thing or two from Maher when it comes to political commentary. It is of course unfair to compare Wells to one of the best political comedians today.
Jeff should take note that Maher made a point of saying he thinks it’s ridiculous for people to try to call for Clinton to step out of the race. I guess that makes him a despicable scumbag hound of hell who we should all smite, huh.
“Great line… there’s actually several in that clip (“The President inherited the White House, but he’s not an elitist because he can’t read or write!”)”
Good Lord, could there be anything more elitist than referring to a graduate of the MBA program at Harvard as if he were an unlettered hillbilly, simply because he has a Texas accent and makes a point of NOT showing off his learning? Really, that’s as offensive as assuming everyone in showbiz must be a homo.
Mgmax: You might have a point if he’d earned his way into Harvard, and not ridden Daddy’s coattails in.
And while he may not make a point of showing off his learning, he seems quite determined not to utilize any of it, either.
Bush does way more than merely “not show off” his “learning.” He exudes a vibe that is almost contemptuous of it.
The fact that he has a Harvard MBA proves nothing about his intellectual capacity, and given his mediocre college grades and lack of accomplishment, just shows that he was a spoiled brat who traded on his family name.
“Bush does way more than merely “not show off” his “learning.” He exudes a vibe that is almost contemptuous of it”
…they said, in defense of the contempt displayed earlier for hicks from Texas
“Mgmax: You might have a point if he’d earned his way into Harvard, and not ridden Daddy’s coattails in.”
Hey, don’t change the subject to Jack Kennedy.
Mgmax
the fact that you still defend the baby killer Bush just disgusts me. That is all.
Mgmax, you’re bringing in Texas here as a strawman. That’s lame and evidence that you’re a party hack. Respond as you wish, I’m done.
Mgmax: “Sharpton’s going to cause a big ugly scene in New York, the kind that’s gotten people killed before.”
But when the cops kill people coming out of strip clubs, it’s fine and dandy.
“And middle-westerners and low-thread-counters and ordinary decent folk all over this country are going to be reminded why they moved out of or stayed out of cities dominated by urban political machines that pay homage to race hustlers like Sharpton.”
Because they hate living with black people?
“Good Lord, could there be anything more elitist than referring to a graduate of the MBA program at Harvard as if he were an unlettered hillbilly, simply because he has a Texas accent and makes a point of NOT showing off his learning?”
I’d be ok if he didn’t show off his learning, but he doesn’t even use it when when he needs it. [Too dumb to find the right door on tv, hur hur.]
“Hey, don’t change the subject to Jack Kennedy.”
Jack Kennedy actually fought in a war, while Bush just snorted coke.
Not just baby killer, I have it on good authority that he roasts them and eats them, Texas-style.
Matty, as we say in Texas, that was all hat and no cattle.
“Jack Kennedy actually fought in a war, while Bush just snorted coke.”
Perhaps not the strongest argument for your side in a McCain vs. Obama matchup, D.Z.
Mgmax: “Perhaps not the strongest argument for your side in a McCain vs. Obama matchup, D.Z.”
A guy who couldn’t win Vietnam advocating another failed war is a pretty good argument in favor of Obama to me…
I can understand Mgmax defending the war in Iraq, John McCain, and Republican policies. I can understand criticizing the Democrats and their policies. An intelligent, principled case can be made for all these positions, even if it’s usually not a very good case.
What I can’t understand is why at this late point he continues to waste his breath and intelligence on defending George W. Bush. Few Republicans will publicly criticize Bush, but even fewer would piss on him even if he were on fire.
Because I think it’s funny when elitists can’t even tell they’re being elitist.
There are plenty of criticisms of Bush that have justice, believe me, and in a more nuanced environment I’d be happy to have a nice discussion about my personal blend of Wilsonian-interventionist-Jacksonian-big-stick-carrying-social-liberal-libertarianism, but that he’s an illiterate moron (or the first president to get there on Daddy’s shoulders) is not only not an accurate one, it’s one that says far more about the simplemindedness of the person reducing our political system to such terms, and certainly suggests that nothing they have to say subsequently will bear any greater relationship to either reality or insight.
But what do I know, I’m from Wichita, Kansas, unlike all the smart people. Oh, whoops, so was Mama Obama….
Mgmax: “but that he’s an illiterate moron”
Yes, the phrase “Is your children learning?” indicates someone of true refinement.
“(or the first president to get there on Daddy’s shoulders)”
He’s not the first one, but he’s the one who got there because of his daddy’s friends on the Supreme Court.
Not to mention the whole Texas thing is a complete scam anyway.
He grew up and spent more than half of his life in the Northeast. He isn’t this born and bred cowboy that he likes people to believe he is.
Didn’t he buy his Crawford ranch about two months before the 2000 election?
He’s not a dumb hick. He’s just dumb. He justifies that by pretending to be a hick too.
Maher is funny and he’s right. And why did Ole Johnny Mac vote against the new GI bill? Can he be that out of touch? You won’t hear about that on Fox News. This old guy could actually be president, and Mgmax will be cheering. So sad.
The fact that McCain is a veteran, then voted against something that can help vets means he doesn’t give a damn about the troops. And still the republicans will pimp this putz out.
Now see, Bents’ post is much harder to argue against, because it’s not such a caricature. I wouldn’t say the Texas thing is a complete scam, I’d say that authenticity was something he struggled with due to his heritage and Ivy League education, sometimes defiantly identifying with an anti-establishment tradition in order to rebel against his upbringing and elite education and portray himself as a man of the people. (Whoops, was I talking about Bush or Obama then?)
Movie Watcher, as you surely know but are playing dumb about, the “new GI Bill” was devised by the Democrats (and antiwar Republicans like Chuck Hagel) to encourage enlistees to forego reenlistment and go to college now, giving them a political advantage this fall by being able to crow about falling reenlistment rates. The military opposes it and so does McCain. That doesn’t mean he opposes college benefits for GIs, our troops, America, apple pie, little crippled children or any other thing; it means he’s not playing your game.
Mgmax: “in order to rebel against his upbringing and elite education and portray himself as a man of the people. (Whoops, was I talking about Bush or Obama then?)”
Yes, most black males born in the 60s had it easy.
“Movie Watcher, as you surely know but are playing dumb about, the “new GI Bill” was devised by the Democrats (and antiwar Republicans like Chuck Hagel) to encourage enlistees to forego reenlistment and go to college now, giving them a political advantage this fall by being able to crow about falling reenlistment rates.”
Yes, because as this war has proven, being an educated soldier is a bad thing.
“The military opposes it and so does McCain. That doesn’t mean he opposes college benefits for GIs, our troops, America, apple pie, little crippled children or any other thing; it means he’s not playing your game.”
McCain also opposed Martin Luther King’s birthday, women getting equal pay, and prisoners getting better treatment than he did by the ‘Cong. But he’s just a “Maverick”.
Mgmax:
Just because you decide there are parallels between Bush and Obama doesn’t make it true, though you would like to believe it does. Saying something enough times makes people agree with you just to shut you up. Your plan is working. As it has for the Dick Cheney and the neocons. All you have to do is say it…and MgMax will agree and preach it until he dies. You write of Bush as though you know about him personally. Maybe you do. If you do, fine. But the breadth of knowledge you clain to have about his inner mindset and ideas is astonishing. You write on a computer and so you can easily defend all thes things you say? Everyone looks upon that mindset with equal parts derision and sympathy. I feel bad for you as I feel bad for my grandmother after I see her stumble and she won’t get a cane. She doesn’t need one, she says, and says it enough until we agree.
Go have some tea…eat some prunes…because no matter what age you are…you’re way off the present.
Sadly, though…as this country tries to move forward…it’s people of your mindset that rule.
“Saying something enough times makes people agree with you just to shut you up. Your plan is working.”
Yeah, I really see that happening here, as I hold off the latte-sipping Persian hordes singlehandedly like Gerard Butler in a leather jockstrap.
“But the breadth of knowledge you clain to have about his inner mindset and ideas is astonishing.”
Ah yes, the breadth of knowledge that I… pointed out his graduate-level education, a fact widely available on the internet.
Enough. You can have Sparta for the rest of the day. I have Abel Gance to watch tonight.
Mgmax: His graduate level education is in business, which apparently didn’t help him much in life.
“The President inherited the White House, but he’s not an elitist because he can’t read or write!”
Every time I read about Bush’s education I come away with the impression that the poor guy probably suffered from dyslexia and possibly some other learning disability. Nowadays a guy like that would get some help, but in those days, in his social class, the usual treatment was to give him a gentleman’s C and pass him up the ladder from prep school to Yale to Harvard Business School.
I’d feel sorry for the guy, except that he’s obviously developed a huge chip on his shoulder against anyone who shows any evidence of actually learning anything in school, unless they pay proper loyalty and obeisance to him, the way Condi Rice has done. I’d feel sorry for him, if he weren’t inflicting such incredible damage on our country.
That’s just my theory. But it’s a theory I bet will be confirmed by a lot of people close to Bush after he’s safely out of power. Just like my theory that he still drinks every time he goes into seclusion down on the Crawford ranch, which is why he goes there so often, and why he comes back with road rash and other self-inflicted injuries so often.
Just my theory, based on decades of close observation of alcoholics in my own family. But it’s a theory I bet will be confirmed by many people close to Bush 5 to 10 years after he’s out of the White House, when he doesn’t have the power to damage their careers anymore.
I went to Yale in the mid 70s, about 8 years after Bush and Kerry. They had tightened up their standards by then, at least a little, but coming from Catholic high school in Chicago, I could not believe what Yalies got away with. I knew a guy who failed his last semester of prep school, but got admitted to Yale anyway, because of his extensive family connections and the fact that his father was already a big donor. He managed to graduate even though he spent his entire college career on the Dick Cheney track.
You could be conscientious and make Yale hard, or you could be lazy and make Yale easy, but you had to be truly self-destructive to get kicked out.
So yes, I do think that Bush coasted through prep school, Yale, and Harvard without learning much on the way. I saw first hand many who did so, and it was even easier back in Bush’s day. To their credit, the UT Austin Law School refused to buy into this game when they turned Bush down before he applied to Harvard B School.
But all that would be water under the bridge if Bush (and Cheney) had developed any respect at all for people unlike himself, who have done some research and actually learned something about the world. Instead he relies on his gut and looking into Putin’s eyes. Anyone who knows anything is ridiculed and shoved aside, unless they cultivate him as a gym partner and watch televised sports with him.
“Sharpton’s going to cause a big ugly scene in New York, the kind that’s gotten people killed before.”
Not to go all DZ on you, but this line is too ridiculous in light of the reality. A man was killed. For leaving a strip club too loud. That does scare home-grown New Yorkers, because it confirms some of the worst paranoia about that great city filled with some thug cops protected by a corrupt ELITE system.
I love when BDS sufferers throw in the word “daddy” when talking about Dubya. They just can’t help themselves. What a weak argument, too. Sure, family ties can get you into Harvard and / or Yale, but I fairly certain the elder Bush didn’t come in and take his tests for him…. but then you never know. I mean, after all, Harvard is a known bastion of Conservatism and a fierce training ground for Republican evil-doers.
And think of all the money parents are now going to save. Don’t bother sending your kids to Yale. Don’t waste your time and cash getting an MBA from Harvard. Don’t worry about getting higher grades than Al Gore, John Kerry or Bill Brainiac Bradley. Just learn to not have a southern accent and take public speaking lessons. That’s the only way you’ll ever be considered intelligent by such illustrious thinkers as, uh, Bill Maher, (Master of Letters and Senior Fellow, Pembroke College, Cambridge University).
Walter: “Sure, family ties can get you into Harvard and / or Yale, but I fairly certain the elder Bush didn’t come in and take his tests for him…. but then you never know.”
He probably just paid them hush money so they’d give his son a C.
“Don’t worry about getting higher grades than Al Gore, John Kerry or Bill Brainiac Bradley.”
Except he didn’t actually get higher scores, outside of a few courses.
“Just learn to not have a southern accent and take public speaking lessons. ”
Or start a war in a Middle Eastern country without being able to differentiate between a Shiite or Sunni Muslim.
I haven’t seen anybody say this, though it seems so obvious that I can’t imagine no one will.
Al Sharpton is about to decide whether or not Obama is president. That is, what Obama decides about Sharpton will decide.
Sharpton’s going to cause a big ugly scene in New York, the kind that’s gotten people killed before. And middle-westerners and low-thread-counters and ordinary decent folk all over this country are going to be reminded why they moved out of or stayed out of cities dominated by urban political machines that pay homage to race hustlers like Sharpton.
And Obama will be presented with the mother of all Sister Souljah moments, to mix my metaphors.
Will he take it? Or will he triangulate it?
“Great line… there’s actually several in that clip (“The President inherited the White House, but he’s not an elitist because he can’t read or write!”)”
Good Lord, could there be anything more elitist than referring to a graduate of the MBA program at Harvard as if he were an unlettered hillbilly, simply because he has a Texas accent and makes a point of NOT showing off his learning? Really, that’s as offensive as assuming everyone in showbiz must be a homo.
“Bush does way more than merely “not show off” his “learning.” He exudes a vibe that is almost contemptuous of it”
…they said, in defense of the contempt displayed earlier for hicks from Texas
“Mgmax: You might have a point if he’d earned his way into Harvard, and not ridden Daddy’s coattails in.”
Hey, don’t change the subject to Jack Kennedy.
Not just baby killer, I have it on good authority that he roasts them and eats them, Texas-style.
Matty, as we say in Texas, that was all hat and no cattle.
“Jack Kennedy actually fought in a war, while Bush just snorted coke.”
Perhaps not the strongest argument for your side in a McCain vs. Obama matchup, D.Z.
Harvard and Yale are quite open about their affirmative action policy towards the sons and daughters of the wealthy. They are called “legacies”. That’s the admission’s department own term for students who are held to a lower standard when they apply because of their family connections with the institution.
The reason legacies are held to a lower standard is because it is in the economic self-interest of Harvard and Yale. They hope to cement a sentimental relationship with rich families to increase the likelihood of receiving huge contributions and bequests from those families. It kind of spoils the warmth of the relationship if you reject Junior just because he’s a bit of a slacker academically.
It works the same way in the rest of the Ivy League, and undoubtedly at other elite private institutions such as Stanford. Elite public institutions, such as Berkeley, probably can’t get away with such a policy.
The Bush family has Yale connections going back many generations, so short of being mentally retarded or a total washout (he is neither), there is no chance W. was not going to get in. The Bush family has no such long-standing relationship with Harvard, but the Harvard B school admissions committee knew full well the long-established wealth and power of the Bush family in the Northeast, Washington, and beyond. There is no way that was not a factor in admitting a marginal applicant like W. Harvard probably hoped to cultivate a new family connection.
This approach has worked well for schools like Harvard and Yale, which boast endowments that produce income that rivals the GDP of many countries. Of course, it also helps to be elitist in choosing rocket scientists like David Swensen to manage the endowment. And they keep up their vaunted reputations by applying elitist standards to the other 80 to 85% of the applicants, the non-legacies. You don’t want to become known as a school that simply prostitutes itself to the highest bidder.
Harvard and Yale walk a fine line. I used to be appalled by the legacy system, but now I take the attitude that it’s the way of the world, and all of us, institutions and individuals, have to look out for our financial futures. Myself, I’m never giving a penny to Yale. That place is great, but it belongs to families like the Bushes and the Basses. My money is better spent at my old inner-city Catholic high school.
W. has often said with some bitterness that he was looked down on by “elitists” at Yale. He attributed it to coming from west Texas, even though he had been born right there in New Haven, and had lived at an Eastern prep school throughout his teens.
I suspect he was right, a lot of non-legacies probably did look down on him. They saw who he was, they knew how he got there, they saw what he was doing after he arrived, and they knew that he had always been held to a different, lower standard. Always had been, and always would be.
Because I think it’s funny when elitists can’t even tell they’re being elitist.
There are plenty of criticisms of Bush that have justice, believe me, and in a more nuanced environment I’d be happy to have a nice discussion about my personal blend of Wilsonian-interventionist-Jacksonian-big-stick-carrying-social-liberal-libertarianism, but that he’s an illiterate moron (or the first president to get there on Daddy’s shoulders) is not only not an accurate one, it’s one that says far more about the simplemindedness of the person reducing our political system to such terms, and certainly suggests that nothing they have to say subsequently will bear any greater relationship to either reality or insight.
But what do I know, I’m from Wichita, Kansas, unlike all the smart people. Oh, whoops, so was Mama Obama….
Now see, Bents’ post is much harder to argue against, because it’s not such a caricature. I wouldn’t say the Texas thing is a complete scam, I’d say that authenticity was something he struggled with due to his heritage and Ivy League education, sometimes defiantly identifying with an anti-establishment tradition in order to rebel against his upbringing and elite education and portray himself as a man of the people. (Whoops, was I talking about Bush or Obama then?)
Movie Watcher, as you surely know but are playing dumb about, the “new GI Bill” was devised by the Democrats (and antiwar Republicans like Chuck Hagel) to encourage enlistees to forego reenlistment and go to college now, giving them a political advantage this fall by being able to crow about falling reenlistment rates. The military opposes it and so does McCain. That doesn’t mean he opposes college benefits for GIs, our troops, America, apple pie, little crippled children or any other thing; it means he’s not playing your game.
“Saying something enough times makes people agree with you just to shut you up. Your plan is working.”
Yeah, I really see that happening here, as I hold off the latte-sipping Persian hordes singlehandedly like Gerard Butler in a leather jockstrap.
“But the breadth of knowledge you clain to have about his inner mindset and ideas is astonishing.”
Ah yes, the breadth of knowledge that I… pointed out his graduate-level education, a fact widely available on the internet.
Enough. You can have Sparta for the rest of the day. I have Abel Gance to watch tonight.
Okay, I give everyone credit for taking this a little more seriously in my absence. I still find it funny that people are shocked, shocked to discover that the legacy system exists and think Bush was the first beneficiary of it (little clue… he has never run against a Democrat for president who wasn’t also one), but at least the discussion is connected to reality about how our system works. And I will say this, I am happier to see three individuals who owe their careers to personal achievement and, on the Dem side, being selected for the Ivies based on merit (even Mrs. C.) as the major candidates this time out than the race between Skull and Bonesmen last time. (Yeah, DZ will argue McCain was a legacy for the Naval Academy, and of course he was. I’d say he proved his mettle later on.)
Mgmax: “(little clue… he has never run against a Democrat for president who wasn’t also one)”
Yes, but he’s the only candidate who has nothing to show on his own, besides his connections.
“Yeah, DZ will argue McCain was a legacy for the Naval Academy, and of course he was. I’d say he proved his mettle later on.”
Actually, if McCain was like Bush or Cheney, he’d use his family connections to buy his way out of the Armed Forces. So I’ll give him that much credit that he didn’t dodge the draft. What I don’t like about the guy is that he knew the score with Lebanon and Somalia, but now he’s deliberately going against his own experience and reservations to win an election. It was bad enough when prospective Presidential candidates like Colin Powell were lying for the sake of keeping their jobs; but
when a guy who lost because of dirt used against him chooses to shred his own integrity to get ahead, it just proves he’s a bigger tool than Dubya.
Mgmax, with respect for your vast film knowledge, you have no credibility on the legacy of George Bush or his administration. Your denial of his teams’s constitutional abuses along with your continued support of a bullshit war sold to Americans in the heat of 9/11 removes you from the realm of insight, except to reveal the endless miles you’ll walk carrying the GOP’s tainted water.
“Yes, but he’s the only candidate who has nothing to show on his own, besides his connections.”
As opposed to what, long careers in government spending the taxpayer’s money? An Oscar for Best Documentary? C’mon. What’s so glorious about Kerry’s career in the senate that Bush’s by all accounts entirely competent term as governor is obviously inferior to it? What was Gore’s great accomplishment in the days before he discovered the environment? Strictly speaking in terms of actual accomplishment in the Senate or the House, McCain is easily the most distinguished and effective member to have run for the office since at least Gerald Ford, or even LBJ. (Well, I might have a sneaking admiration for Dole, whose notion of accomplishment was entirely negative– “any day in which we stopped a bill from passing is a good day.” A libertarian after my own, and Thomas Jefferson’s, heart.)
“Your denial of his teams’s constitutional abuses along with your continued support of a bullshit war sold to Americans in the heat of 9/11 removes you from the realm of insight”
You’re certainly entitled to think that, but I should point out that I do not agree with your framing of the issues. I don’t deny the so-called constitutional abuses have taken place, I deny that they’re mostly abuses, or that in the grand historical scheme of things, they’re the world-class horrors people like to claim. A little impersonal data mining to find some people acting like terrorists for further study seems a reasonable thing to do in this kind of war, for instance. I don’t share the panic this induces in many.
As for the war, it remains a fact that the choice in 2002-3 was never between war and peace; it was between the cruel, crumbling sanctions regime of the previous decade and more, or toppling Saddam. Until you’re prepared to be honest about those being the existing choices, what’s the point?
Mgmax: “What’s so glorious about Kerry’s career in the senate that Bush’s by all accounts entirely competent term as governor is obviously inferior to it?”
Well, Kerry didn’t get to be a Senator by dodging the draft.
“What was Gore’s great accomplishment in the days before he discovered the environment?”
From wikipedia:
…Gore was an honors student at St. Albans School in Washington, D.C.[11] He attended Harvard University and graduated with a B.A. in government (cum laude) in June 1969.[12]..He enlisted in the United States Army on August 7, 1969. After basic training at Fort Dix, Gore was assigned as a military journalist writing for The Army Flier, the base newspaper at Fort Rucker.[19] With seven months remaining in his enlistment, Gore was shipped to Vietnam, arriving on January 2, 1971.[19] He served with the 20th Engineer Brigade in Bien Hoa.[20]…
he stated that while a senator, he twice attempted to get the U.S. government to pull the plug on support to Saddam Hussein, citing Hussein’s use of poison gas, support of terrorism, and his burgeoning nuclear program, but was opposed both times by the Reagan and Bush administrations.[31]
“Strictly speaking in terms of actual accomplishment in the Senate or the House, McCain is easily the most distinguished and effective member to have run for the office since at least Gerald Ford, or even LBJ.”
If you mean in banning MLK’s birthday, then that’s quite an accomplishment.
“I deny that they’re mostly abuses, or that in the grand historical scheme of things, they’re the world-class horrors people like to claim. ”
Yes, electroshock therapy and simulated drowning are just college pranks.
“As for the war, it remains a fact that the choice in 2002-3 was never between war and peace;”
The choice in 2002-2003 was going after the perps responsible for blowing up the WTC. We have not done this once.
“it was between the cruel, crumbling sanctions regime of the previous decade”
If it was crumbling, then it wouldn’t have lasted a decade.
“and more, or toppling Saddam.”
Yes, who cares about civil war? Saddam must go.
Okay, I give everyone credit for taking this a little more seriously in my absence. I still find it funny that people are shocked, shocked to discover that the legacy system exists and think Bush was the first beneficiary of it (little clue… he has never run against a Democrat for president who wasn’t also one), but at least the discussion is connected to reality about how our system works. And I will say this, I am happier to see three individuals who owe their careers to personal achievement and, on the Dem side, being selected for the Ivies based on merit (even Mrs. C.) as the major candidates this time out than the race between Skull and Bonesmen last time. (Yeah, DZ will argue McCain was a legacy for the Naval Academy, and of course he was. I’d say he proved his mettle later on.)
“Yes, but he’s the only candidate who has nothing to show on his own, besides his connections.”
As opposed to what, long careers in government spending the taxpayer’s money? An Oscar for Best Documentary? C’mon. What’s so glorious about Kerry’s career in the senate that Bush’s by all accounts entirely competent term as governor is obviously inferior to it? What was Gore’s great accomplishment in the days before he discovered the environment? Strictly speaking in terms of actual accomplishment in the Senate or the House, McCain is easily the most distinguished and effective member to have run for the office since at least Gerald Ford, or even LBJ. (Well, I might have a sneaking admiration for Dole, whose notion of accomplishment was entirely negative– “any day in which we stopped a bill from passing is a good day.” A libertarian after my own, and Thomas Jefferson’s, heart.)
“Your denial of his teams’s constitutional abuses along with your continued support of a bullshit war sold to Americans in the heat of 9/11 removes you from the realm of insight”
You’re certainly entitled to think that, but I should point out that I do not agree with your framing of the issues. I don’t deny the so-called constitutional abuses have taken place, I deny that they’re mostly abuses, or that in the grand historical scheme of things, they’re the world-class horrors people like to claim. A little impersonal data mining to find some people acting like terrorists for further study seems a reasonable thing to do in this kind of war, for instance. I don’t share the panic this induces in many.
As for the war, it remains a fact that the choice in 2002-3 was never between war and peace; it was between the cruel, crumbling sanctions regime of the previous decade and more, or toppling Saddam. Until you’re prepared to be honest about those being the existing choices, what’s the point?
Jeff Cohen is biiter. And rightfully so:
There was no room for me after MSNBC launched Countdown: Iraq — a daily one-hour show that seemed more keen on glamorizing a potential war than scrutinizing or debating it. Countdown: Iraq featured retired colonels and generals, sometimes resembling boys with war toys as they used props, maps and glitzy graphics to spin invasion scenarios. They reminded me of pumped-up ex-football players doing pre-game analysis and diagramming plays. It was excruciating to be sidelined at MSNBC, watching so many non-debates in which myth and misinformation were served up unchallenged.
It was bad enough to be silenced. Much worse to see that these ex-generals — many working for military corporations — were never in debates, nor asked a tough question by an anchor. (I wasn’t allowed on MSNBC unless balanced by at least one truculent right-winger.)
Except for the brazenness and scope of the Pentagon spin program, I wasn’t shocked by the recent New York Times report exposing how the Pentagon junketed and coached the retired military brass into being “message-force multipliers” and “surrogates” for Donald Rumsfeld’s lethal propaganda.
The biggest villain here is not Rumsfeld or the Pentagon. It’s the TV networks. In the land of the First Amendment, it was their choice to shut down debate and journalism.
No government agency forced MSNBC to repeatedly feature the hawkish generals unopposed. Or fire Phil Donahue. Or smear weapons expert Scott Ritter. Or blacklist former attorney general Ramsey Clark. It was top NBC/MSNBC execs, not the Feds, who imposed a quota system on the Donahue staff requiring two pro-war guests if we booked one anti-war advocate — affirmative action for hawks.
I’m all for a Congressional investigation into the Pentagon’s Iraq propaganda operation — which included an active-duty general exhorting ex-military-turned-paid-pundits that “the strategic target remains our population.”
But I’m also for keeping the focus and onus on CNN, FOX, NBC, ABC, CBS, even NPR – who were partners in the Pentagon’s mission of “information dominance.” And for us to see that American TV news remains so corrupt today that it has hardly mentioned the Times story on the Pentagon’s pundits, which was based on 8,000 pages of internal Pentagon documents acquired by a successful Times lawsuit.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeff-cohen/military-propaganda-pushe_b_98925.html
I’d actually agree with a lot of that if the guy’s idea of a good guest wasn’t Ramsey Clark, the loathsome friend of every dictatorial butcher in the world. No wonder this guy thinks the news is biased right if that’s his idea of mainstream left. I would never slander the left by suggesting that Ramsey Clark is typical…
I’d actually agree with a lot of that if the guy’s idea of a good guest wasn’t Ramsey Clark, the loathsome friend of every dictatorial butcher in the world. No wonder this guy thinks the news is biased right if that’s his idea of mainstream left. I would never slander the left by suggesting that Ramsey Clark is typical…
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