Pressure Is On Soderbergh

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I've heard some credible-sounding information from a couple of solid guys about The Argentine and Guerilla, Steven Soderbergh's Cannes-bound Che Guevara films. And the situation, they're telling me, is more or less as follows:

(1) The second of the two films, Guerilla, which deals with Guevara's failed attempt to incite a revolution in Boliva in 1967, is pretty much done, largely, I gather, because principal photography was completed on this one before it was on The Argentine, which is about the triumphant Cuban revolution from '56 to late '58. (I've written the films' producer Laura Bickford to clarify this and other matters.)

(2) Right now, I'm hearing, Soderbergh is jacked and sweating bullets in a Manhattan editing facility getting The Argentine into showable shape in time for Cannes. One guy says he's been told by a Warner Bros. source that Soderbergh is determined to get the film[s] done in time for Cannes. Another guy told me he's heard the chances of The Argentine being "ready-ready" are "less than 50%." And yet Soderbergh, he adds, repeating what the Warner Bros. guy passed along, is said to be confident he can have The Argentine in some kind of decent shape by the mid-April deadline, or roughly ten days from now. Of course, he could always screen The Argentine as a not-quite-completed work in progress a la Apocalypse Now.

(3) It's been deemed crucial in the view of various players, including Wild Bunch topper Vincent Maraval, the film's Paris-based financier who'll be selling the distribution rights to an as-yet-uncommitted U.S. distributor, that The Argentine and Guerilla should be shown in Cannes as a single unit consisting of two parts. Soderbergh has said he'd wants the films to come out in tandem or something close to the same time (i.e., maybe a couple of weeks or a month apart).

(4) It's also very important to get The Argentine done for Cannes because it's the more "up"-ish of the two...more exciting, more rousing. It's about struggle and success. Well written as it is, Guerilla is pretty much about struggle and failure. Peter Buchman's Argentine script seemed complete on its own terms, but Guerilla, I thought, needed the Argentine counterweight.

(5) A potential buyer confides that "it's a tough deal...looks like a tough deal. Two Spanish-language films, no dubbed English versions, gritty subject matter, possible rancor in some sectors of the U.S. -- the right-wing Cubans in Miami, say -- when the two films open." The upside, he adds, is you have a likely Best Actor contender in Benicio del Toro's performance, and possibly other award-level attributes, including, obviously, the two pictures themselves for Best Picture.

""All you have to do is sell it to all those kids who've hung that Che poster on their college bedroom wall," he said.

Variety's John Hopewell reported from the Berlin Film Festival two months ago that Wild Bunch's hottest draw -- very possibly the most talked-about film at this year's Berlin festival -- was Soderbergh's two-pic Che, an action bio of large artistic ambition. Screened in Soderbergh's presence, 10 minutes of excerpts, mainly of first-part Argentine, had buyers talking bullishly about a work with the makings of a modern classic.

"Three U.S. buyers are circling Che, said Berlin reports. The number is most probably significantly higher than that, though Wild Bunch's Vincent Maraval said [that] Wild Bunch was in no hurry to close a U.S. deal."

The grapevine says the most likely U.S. buyer at this stage is Warner Independent. And no, Focus Features is not involved at this stage. A rumor got started along these lines a year or so ago, but I've been told Focus is not connected.

Hey, how about showing the two films as a gargantuan Lawrence of Arabia-styled two-parter with an intermission, running at least three or three and a half hours?

comment #1

mutinyco says ...

I was under the impression Focus had these. Though now looking at the IMDb, Focus is listed as the US distrib for The Argentine, but nobody's listed for Guerrilla. Wouldn't make much sense to split them.

comment #2

D.Z. says ...

>A potential buyer confides that "it's a tough deal...looks like >a tough deal. Two Spanish-language films, no dubbed >English versions, gritty subject matter, possible rancor in >some sectors of the U.S. --

So how are they any more risky than Pan's Labyrinth and The Sea Inside?

comment #3

Mr. Kockum says ...

"Hey, how about showing the two films as a gargantuan Lawrence of Arabia-styled two-parter with an intermission, running at least three or three and a half hours?"

Yeah, sell it as Guevara Grindhouse. Not likely to happen, though.

comment #4

parttimesaint says ...

Fuck Che Guevara. He was a homophobic asshole who was a much worse person than Bush ever has been.

comment #5

Mgmax says ...

""All you have to do is sell it to all those kids who've hung that Che poster on their college bedroom wall," he said."

Nothing can improve on that comment, unless they come out with Che Happy Meal toys.

comment #6

D.Z. says ...

saint: "He was a homophobic asshole"

So how does that make him worse than Bush?

"who was a much worse person than Bush ever has been."

When I hear that Guevara fondly reminisced about blowing up frogs with firecrackers, and defended working with businesses which raped its own female employees, then I'll agree.

comment #7

D.Z. says ...

its=their

comment #8

Edward says ...

To a left leaner like myself: the idea of marketing a film about a Marxist is strange. This film is high on my must see list. I'm also interested in seeing how the Red Camera footage looks. How's that for irony. A story of a Red shot with a Red!

comment #9

Mgmax says ...

"When I hear that Guevara fondly reminisced about blowing up frogs with firecrackers, and defended working with businesses which raped its own female employees, then I'll agree."

That would require you actually knowing something about the actual historical personage of Che, or Bush, and not just the caricature you carry around of each of them.

comment #10

D.Z. says ...

Mgmax: "That would require you actually knowing something about the actual historical personage of Che, or Bush,"

One out of two ain't bad.

comment #11

actionman says ...

Big fan of both Soderbergh and Del Toro.

The subject matter doesn't immediately leap out at me but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't interested. Sounds like a very ambitious set of projects.

comment #12

corey3rd says ...

This is shaping up to be a Double DOA for the American market outside of the arthouse world of NY-LA. Maybe their marketing boys need to quickly quiz the kids with Che's poster and t-shirts about what they really know or care about the guy. Cause odds are they know or care little outside the iconic image and the guy in Rage Against the Machine wearing the t-shirt. I sat though a documentary about what happened to Che's hands. Will that be the third volume to this series? Let Oliver Stone make it as is follow up to The Hand?

Motorcycle Diaries made $17 million.

comment #13

K. Bowen says ...

So what are they going to do with the second movie after the first one bombs at the American box office?

comment #14

D.Z. says ...

corey: "Motorcycle Diaries made $17 million."

I imagine that's actually a big haul, considering the budget for shooting in S. America's likely to be significantly less than N. America.

Bowen: "So what are they going to do with the second movie after the first one bombs at the American box office?"

I imagine they'd sell it in enough Latin territories that it would pay for itself...

comment #15

Rich S. says ...

Viva La Stupidity!

http://www.dccomics.com/media/excerpts/9431_x.pdf

comment #16

bb says ...

Che is a myth cherished by dreamers. It's about time people start actually thinking about the guy beyond the iconic figure he's become. The more he's talked and thought about, the more his myth will die.

Remember Mao was once embraced by the left in spite of the tens of millions he murdered.

I wonder if the films will show Castro's role in bringing Che down. I know that doesn't fit the preferred narrative but it is the truth.

comment #17

D.Z. says ...

bb: "Che is a myth cherished by dreamers. It's about time people start actually thinking about the guy beyond the iconic figure he's become."

You could say the same about our slave-owning Founding Fathers who believed only rich white males deserved the right to vote.

comment #18

bb says ...

D.Z.,

Wow, you just put Che in a box with slave owning racists or you just exonerated our founding fathers of such accusations. All in one sentence. Bravo.

comment #19

D.Z. says ...

bb: My point is that everyone has flaws. Both Che and George Washington were revolutionaries, but they clearly didn't fully live up to their ideals.

comment #20

Mgmax says ...

And they both executed homosexuals!

Abraham Lincoln was a racist honky!

comment #21

K. Bowen says ...

Are you actually equating George Washington with Che Guevara?

Howabout Josef Stalin? Was George Washington just like Stalin, too.

Please, someone get me some water.

comment #22

D.Z. says ...

Mgmax: "And they both executed homosexuals!"

Washington was too busy beating slaves to kill gays.

Bowen: "Are you actually equating George Washington with Che Guevara? Howabout Josef Stalin?"

Stalin's more like Andrew Jackson.

comment #23

Titus Pullo says ...

These movies are gonna tank big time. Conservatives who won't serve their country in a time of war will use films like these to scream charges of anti-Americanism as a way to distract themselves from the fact that their patriotism has been put to the test and they have failed. They are angry and looking for targets. Don't believe me? Go read the Nikki Finke's story about Clooney's new flick tanking and read some of the comments.

That aside, I'll be interested to see these films, and I'll be hoping that they aren't just hagiographies.

comment #24

Mgmax says ...

"Stalin's more like Andrew Jackson."

Because of his opposition to the Bank of the United States, or because of his close ties to Martin Van Buren?

No, really, don't answer that. It would only spoil the pristine Zen beauty of what has to be the most jawdroppingly bizarre and inappropriate and clueless thing ever said on Hollywood Elsewhere. If only Jeffmcm were alive to read it.

comment #25

Mgmax says ...

"Conservatives who won't serve their country in a time of war will use films like these to scream charges of anti-Americanism as a way to distract themselves from the fact that their patriotism has been put to the test and they have failed."

And liberals who've had partial-birth abortions will wish they had given birth to extra children who could pay to see the movies and make them hits.

comment #26

D.Z. says ...

Mgmax: "Because of his opposition to the Bank of the United States, or because of his close ties to Martin Van Buren?"

I think it's more akin to the fact that they both liked stealing land to build their empire.

comment #27

Titus Pullo says ...

Thats fairly funny Mgmax, but you and I both know, rooted in fact it is not. The FACT is, despite the military's lowering of every conceivable standard, raising the enlistment age, and issuing exceptions for things like criminal records and mental illness, they still fall far short of their recruiting goals, which have also been lowered. The Joint Chief of Staff just essentially admitted that we don't have the troops we need, and a ramp up of troop strength in Afghanistan is being put off because they simply don't have the troop numbers. Yet, this country seems to be filled to the brim w/ conservatives of military age who accuse others of being anti-American, and of being un-patriotic.

You seem to be angry Mgmax, so I have to assume you're a conservative. Having been a psych major for a time I understand a lot of these issues you and other conservatives are dealing w/ now. Lack of self esteem can be paralyzing to the human psyche, and if you are someone who bases his world view and philosophy on patriotism, honor, sacrifice and love of country, and yet cannot find it within yourselves to step forward and meet the standards of that worldview, then reality becomes the enemy.

comment #28

Mgmax says ...

"Having been a psych major for a time I understand a lot of these issues"

Having been an undergrad once myself... no even then I wasn't that unintentionally hilarious.

comment #29

D.Z. says ...

Titus: It's actually the opposite with conservatives. They suffer from blind optimism, even when rockets hit the Green Zone.

comment #30

Major Calloway says ...

Having been a psych major for a time I understand a lot of these issues you and other conservatives are dealing w/ now.

Please tell me there's a course in that major teaching how to analyze and diagnose a statement such as that one.

comment #31

Mgmax says ...

Titus: It's actually the opposite with conservatives. They suffer from blind optimism, even when rockets hit the Green Zone.

And there we have the admission that liberals are the pessimistic clingers to the status quo, while conservatives are the ones with the hopeful, we-can-affect-change outlook. So what does that do to Titus' potted psychology of how sick conservatives are, if he's the conservative and I'm the progressive?

comment #32

bb says ...

D.Z.,

I just think it's awesome that there is a correlation between every 20th century despot and past US Presidents. I know, Che doesn't fit that description since he was rubbed out before he could fulfill his goals but at least he had goals I guess.

Here's an idea, try reading a little history. Maybe visit and even live in one of the worker's paradises around the world ( I hear Cuba has great health care.). Learn a little just a little removed from your very comfy position in the US, and believe me, whatever your condition may be, it is comfy in comparison, and then refine your historical analogies just a bit.

comment #33

D.Z. says ...

Mgmax: "And there we have the admission that liberals are the pessimistic clingers to the status quo,"

It's not pessimism, just realism.

"while conservatives are the ones with the hopeful, we-can-affect-change outlook."

It's more like a "we can change people against their will" outlook.

bb: "I just think it's awesome that there is a correlation between every 20th century despot and past US Presidents."

Well, it's been that way since Dubya's grandfather funded Adolf's Final Solution, anyway.

"Maybe visit and even live in one of the worker's paradises around the world ( I hear Cuba has great health care.). Learn a little just a little removed from your very comfy position in the US, whatever your condition may be, it is comfy in comparison, "

I didn't know rising gas and food prices, the worst economy since the Depression, and water filled with disposed drugs of all kinds could be considered "comfy".

comment #34

Mgmax says ...

"It's not pessimism, just realism."

As concise a definition of the conservative outlook as has ever been given.

comment #35

Titus Pullo says ...

Funny how you still don't address the meat of what I was saying Mgmax, why aren't you super duper patriotic patriots enlisting en masse? You make snide remarks about everything else, but don't address the issue...strange. Could it be that my psych profile of you was spot on? To wit:
Lack of self esteem can be paralyzing to the human psyche, and if you are someone who bases his world view and philosophy on patriotism, honor, sacrifice and love of country, and yet cannot find it within yourselves to step forward and meet the standards of that worldview, then reality becomes the enemy.

comment #36

Titus Pullo says ...

"It's not pessimism, just realism."

'As concise a definition of the conservative outlook as has ever been given.'
-Mgmax

Then tell me, realistically....how does a nation at war, whose populace doesn't want to fight that war, and whose government will not impose conscription, win that war?

comment #37

bb says ...

"I didn't know rising gas and food prices, the worst economy since the Depression, and water filled with disposed drugs of all kinds could be considered "comfy"."

D.Z.,

gas prices here are lower than they have been for years in Europe, unemployment is substantially lower than Europe and lower than what existed under Clinton in the 90s, you would not believe what you find in the water in Europe,

Your list of problems illustrates my point. You have no point of reference. So when you complain that unemployment is high (5.1%!!!), you don't know what it is like to live with double digit unemployment, where it is truly a burden.

When you complain about the water, you don't know what it is like to have to have truly disgusting water filled with heavy metals and lethal organisms among other things.

And when you complain about the historically bad economy, you illustrate that you either never lived under the Carter administration with numbers that blow every bad economic indicator of today away, or you have a very bad memory.

Sometimes Americans can behave like spoiled children who whine and complain when they have no idea how good they truly have it.

comment #38

Titus Pullo says ...

BB, I'm calling bullshit. Could you show me how we can have a falling unemployment number at the same time we haven't had more than a couple Non Farm Payroll numbers above 150,000 in the last 5 years? 150,000 being the number of jobs economists say the US must produce monthly to meet new job entrants in the US economy. The unemployment number is one of those things that no longer represent the true economic situation The Augmented Unemployment Rate is a measure of labor-market conditions, some people call it the NILF for 'not in labor force', these are the formulas:

unemployment rate = unemployed / labor force
augmented unemployment rate = (job-wanters + unemployed) / (labor force + job-wanters)

The AUR or NILF, is a much more accurate measure of the unemployment situation in the US, and while the unemployment figures have hovered around 5% for the last few years, the AUR or NILF shows the real unemployment rate has been around 6.25 during that same time.

Well, Americans may not know how good they've had it, but I have a suspicion they might realize it in the near future.

comment #39

bb says ...

Titus,our unemployment numbers didn't fall, they went up. I assume that is why D.Z. is bringing it up.

Call it what you want but the unemployment rate has been the constant method of measuring unemployment for years so if you want to compare unemployment now vs the 90s or god forbid, during Carter's 4 years, you use the same method of measurement. To do anything else wouldn't just be dishonest, it would be kind of dumb.

Of course if you really cared about bullshit you would acknowledge that AUR is not seasonally adjusted and thus fits that term perfectly.

And if you really wanted to address the issue honestly, you would comment on the rates in Europe that are dramatically higher...even than your preferred number.

comment #40

D.Z. says ...

Mgmax: "As concise a definition of the conservative outlook as has ever been given."

So Iraq being a "cakewalk", us being out "in a few months", and the Iraqi oil "paying for itself" is realistic?

bb: "gas prices here are lower than they have been for years in Europe,"

The Europeans have a stronger currency than us, though, so they end up paying less than us per Euro.

"unemployment is substantially lower than Europe"

The Europeans still have a bigger GDP than us in spite of it, though.

"and lower than what existed under Clinton in the 90s,"

That's only because Clinton had to contend with the failures of 12 years of Republican economics.

"So when you complain that unemployment is high (5.1%!!!), you don't know what it is like to live with double digit unemployment,"

True. I just know what it's like to still live below the poverty line, even when I'm employed.

"When you complain about the water, you don't know what it is like to have to have truly disgusting water filled with heavy metals and lethal organisms among other things."

I'm sure people in New Orleans do, though.

"And when you complain about the historically bad economy, you illustrate that you either never lived under the Carter administration with numbers that blow every bad economic indicator of today away,"

True, but that's Nixon's fault, not Carter's fault.

comment #41

Mgmax says ...

Stalin is like Andrew Jackson.

comment #42

bb says ...

D.Z.

I'm simply amazed at your advanced diversion techniques.

Last I heard, gas was running around $8 gallon in europe. I understand that somehow you understand that this is cheap to Europeans. They'll be happy to hear the good news.

Geez, the rest is so brilliantly convoluted that I'm too busy scratching my head to actually type.

comment #43

D.Z. says ...

"Last I heard, gas was running around $8 gallon in europe. I understand that somehow you understand that this is cheap to Europeans. They'll be happy to hear the good news."

I didn't say cheap, just cheaper, because they don't buy gas-guzzling SUVs like we do.

comment #44

Mgmax says ...

Tito is like Franklin Pierce.

comment #45

Bob Violence says ...

I didn't know rising gas and food prices, the worst economy since the Depression, and water filled with disposed drugs of all kinds could be considered 'comfy'.

I have no particular horse in this pissing match, but I've gotta say that, yes, the average American's lifestyle is unfathomably (almost obscenely) "comfy" compared to the conditions that around half the world endures day in and day out, and any number of those people would be willing to trade however many body parts necessary to share in our reasonably potable water, our $13 trillion economy, and our abundant food and gas supplies. There's no need to pretend that things on the home front are a-OK, but to suggest that we have it uniquely bad because our economy isn't quite as robust as those enjoyed by some other insanely privileged sectors of mankind is borderline delusional.

comment #46

D.Z. says ...

Bob: "I have no particular horse in this pissing match, but I've gotta say that, yes, the average American's lifestyle is unfathomably (almost obscenely) "comfy" compared to the conditions that around half the world endures day in and day out,"

Worrying about whether you're still gonna have a home in a few months is not very comfy.

"and any number of those people would be willing to trade however many body parts necessary to share in our reasonably potable water,"

So water filled with waste from a junkie's last hit is now considered potable?

"our $13 trillion economy,"

Um, we're actually trillions in debt from the war and trade with China.

"and our abundant food and gas supplies."

Actually, we've reached the peak oil phase, our food keeps getting recalled, and our grain's been sold out, in order to appease ethanol speculators.

comment #47

Mgmax says ...

D.Z. isn't even a glass half empty kinda guy. He's a glass completely empty but full of deadly chemicals and with jagged edges which are about to go through your eyeball causing you to have to go to the hospital where they'll refuse to pay for your treatment kind of guy.

comment #48

Titus Pullo says ...

"Titus,our unemployment numbers didn't fall, they went up. I assume that is why D.Z. is bringing it up."

No they feel 2003-2008 and only recently ticked up. You want to tell us this 'economy is great...it isn't. Real wages, savings, rising consumer debt....by almost any measure this economy is surely not ok. Relative to Europe? Apples and oranges, Europeans don't have to worry about the cost of health care or higher education, big costs here in the US. Gas prices are sky high, but they have real public transpo. You forgot to mention that the US economy looks really good when compared to the Great Depession. You and people like you just cheerlead til the bitter end don't you? Were winning in Iraq! Housing prices will rise, rise, rise....forevah!!!!!!! No savings? Who cares! We'll just borrow more and more and more money from China! The era of the PetroDollar will never end! We can't lose....we're America! Do you hear me? America!

comment #49

bb says ...

Titus,

I think you share D.Z.'s love of the empty, broken glass as explained by Mgmax. The economy has had a downturn. It will come back. It always does. Our economy works in cycles. It always has.

Oh, we could try another system and ensure that everybody is equally dirt poor (the car I can't afford to own is just as nice as the car my neighbor can't afford to buy) but I've tried that and it sucks.

When I was 12, I believed the end times taught to me by the fundamentalist church I belonged to. By the time I turned 16 I had learned enough about history to understand that our impending end had been impending for over 2,000 years. That's when i stopped listening to the endtimers.

Preach on brother but I ain't drinking the kool-aid.

comment #50

thorsen1nk says ...

In a semi-related subject, love the picture of the conservative model rocking the better-red-than-dead t-shirt. Reminds me of one of the best nights if my life: I got dragged to some lame-ass frat party while at college in Wisconsin. There, I bumped into some prissy republican sorority girl at and we got into a huge argument about politics. 2 hours and countless drinks later, we were still arguing when she just jumped on me. One hour later, world-class spitefuck. For a member of the party which claims to be the moral majority, that woman did some awesomely depraved things... I guess we can all get along!

comment #51

Titus Pullo says ...

"The economy has had a downturn. It will come back. It always does."
-Publius Claudius, Roman citizen,483 AD

I'm using this to emphasize that, yeah, things always work out...until they don't.

Has the US economy ever come back w/o a manufacturing base? You realize things will be different when the dollar is no longer the reserve currency of the world....and it is 'when' not 'if', that happens. What happens to all those unwanted dollars when oil is purchased w/ Euros instead? We've never had a deficit remotely as big as it is now. The world has changed but, okay, enjoy life....keep your fingers crossed, but me, my eyes are wide open.

comment #52

Mgmax says ...

Has the US economy ever come back w/o a manufacturing base?

You could as well have asked in 1930 if we could come back without most people working on farms. It would have been a reasonable question, too; who could have predicted the consumer products economy of the 1950s and 1960s then, let alone the tech boom, the rise of media as a major economic sector, etc.?

comment #53

D.Z. says ...

Mgmax: Of course, we only came back after the Depression due to policies you criticize.

comment #54

Mgmax says ...

I've criticized the interstate highway system?

comment #55

D.Z. says ...

Government intervention.

comment #56

MHanson2 says ...

Jeffrey..I don't know why you quote a source "from Warner's" since these are not Warner films, and they have never been involved. Soderbergh thinks Polly Cohen is an idiot and would never let them be under the WIP banner.
The truth is that Fremeaux saw the films in NY weeks ago and wants them. Soderbergh is far enough along that he is doing the final audio mix right now before beginning shooting 'The Informant' (which is a Warner movie) on May 1st. The only pressure is on Soderbergh is in regards to The Informant, because he needs to complete shooting before the strike deadline of June 30th. Wild Bunch is holding out till Cannes to make a deal because they're so confident in the films, Soderbergh would rather just sell to Harvey Weinstein now because he knows how to market these kind of films.

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