comment #1

btwnproductions says ...

Include me out. I was underwhelmed, even in IMAX. And I liked BEGINS. A disappointment.

comment #2

Entropy says ...

I actually have already heard from another source who saw the film in a preview with his sister's brother's cousin. Those who saw The Dark Knight at that screening had whatever ailments plaguing their body at the time healed!

One crippled man lept to his feet upon seeing Ledger's finale (Terry whoever doesn't count) screaming "I can walk again! I can walk again!" while another woman with bad hemroids claimed she could sit for the first time in 30 years.

I'm telling you...this film will not only beat Titanic...it will beat the combined gross of every film ever made. Ever. Really.

comment #3

BurmaShave says ...

Yes yes, we were all so elated by TITANIC. I agree it's not goign to happen, but isn't it a bit soon to agree with the naysayers when you haven't even seen the damn thing?

comment #4

Mark says ...

Titanic didn't get where it is from fanboys seeing it two or three times. It went from $350 to $600 million from fangirls seeing it 14 times. The will of teen girls trump 20-something hipsters everytime.

That said, I did catch a craigslist ad today selling a single seat for the Chicago midnight imax show for $200. Ridiculous.

comment #5

George Prager says ...

Anything that makes Edelstein, Denby, Ansen and Thompson unhappy must be doing something right.

comment #6

actionman says ...

The only recent movie that Denby has been right about was Hancock; he's too up his own ass to be trusted most of the time.

comment #7

Balthazar says ...

Is it fall movie season yet?

comment #8

actionman says ...

and there is absolutely no way that TDK will do $500 million domestic

comment #9

Mgmax says ...

"I actually have already heard from another source who saw the film in a preview with his sister's brother's cousin. Those who saw The Dark Knight at that screening had whatever ailments plaguing their body at the time healed!"

Are you sure Obama wasn't in the vicinity?

comment #10

Geoff says ...

TITANIC really did reach that threshold from repeat value. No doubt about it.

comment #11

Richardson says ...

I know it won't happen, but when I read things like this, it makes me want this movie to fail, just to see the mass suicide from the AICN-type talkbackers in reaction.

comment #12

Roman says ...

Meh, excuse me as I go see Indy 4 again.

And the everyone knows batman shtick didn't help much the much overrated "Batman Begins" now, did it?

comment #13

adaml says ...

What sort of wanker is saying this has a shot at beating Titanic? Delusional or grossly exaggerating to get some undeserved notice?

I'd happily bet anyone it won't make half Titanic's haul.

comment #14

Entropy says ...

RIchardson,

Read Armond White's review. It is the best intellectual smack down of The Dark Knight I have read yet.

White's prose can run rings around the latest fan-boy jerk off mania.

I suspect that there will be a huge backlash against this film in about ...how long to the first showing?

comment #15

Jezza says ...

Umm why does Jeff shite on The Dark Knight so much? Because 4 critics didn't like it? Yep, good one. So what if it is hyped up. Judge it for yourself.

comment #16

Jezza says ...

Umm why does Jeff shite on The Dark Knight so much? Because 4 critics didn't like it? Yep, good one. So what if it is hyped up. Judge it for yourself.

comment #17

George Prager says ...

"Read Armond White's review. It is the best intellectual smack down of The Dark Knight I have read yet."

HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

comment #18

Ponderer says ...

"Read Armond White's review. It is the best intellectual smack down of The Dark Knight I have read yet."

Yeah yeah, I see your Armond White and raise you with a rave from Andrew Sarris (particularly notable as Sarris was a big humbug on everything Nolan's done).

BTW, isn't weird that most of the really strong anti-TDK sentiment is coming from the New York press and pretty much nowhere else? When even Kenny Turan goes for something like this, you have to hold up a deep lens to the negativistas. Maybe it's all the post 9/11 psychology lodged in the film.

comment #19

Mr. Muckle says ...

Re: Armond White's review, as a friend of mine says, "I am a fan of quality gibberish."

AW: "Every generation also has the right—no, obligation—to question a pop-entertainment that diminishes universal ideas of good, evil, social purpose and pleasure."

What a neocon thought that is. As if his so-called universal ideas of good, evil, social purpose and pleasure have themselves yet been questioned sufficiently to expose them as transparently NOT universal.

In the age of Bush/Cheney, it should also be perfectly obvious that rigid ideas of good and evil are utterly relative and unreliable if not completely spurious, or deceitful and politically expedient at best.

And topping it off to hold up "The Black Dahlia" as a superior work, just makes one laugh. Not having seen "The Dark Night," but having suffered through the ludicrous TBD, 'nuff said for me.

comment #20

Michael says ...

Armond White wouldn't shut up about how great Mr. 3000 was...I'll let that speak for itself.

comment #21

Entropy says ...

Mr, Muckle,

Many many many things happen in this world that have absolutely nothing to do with Bush or Cheney. That line of thought is simplistic and tired.

Do you really think the intricate cultural tapestries of the world will change if/when Obama is elected president?

comment #22

swordandpen says ...

If Spielberg or DePalma made "The Dark Knight", White would be raving.

Armond White is a pseudo-intellectual phony and contrarian for the sole purpose of self-promotion. Anyone who takes what he says seriously are not using their heads. He's irrelevant to any serious discussion on film.

comment #23

Filmsnob says ...

Its already #4 on the Imdb top 250.

comment #24

D.Z. says ...

"Known supporting cast"

No one knows Ledger, other than for being a gay cowboy and a junky. And that 'Smoking movie Eckhart was in got more people seeing it for that Katie Homes nude scene than him.

"I don't know if it will beat Titanic, but it definitely has a shot"

Nothing's going to beat Titanic, unless it has the same across-the-board appeal.

adam: "What sort of wanker is saying this has a shot at beating Titanic?"

George was saying the same thing about Sith. Well, actually, he called it "Titanic in space".

comment #25

CinemaPhreek says ...

At this point predicting anything other than the first weekend's gross (I have $172M) is pretty much mental masturbation X2.

Until there's some feeling on the general consensus in the average filmgoer its hard to guess the final ballpark. I'll go out on a limb to say $400M, but anyone saying $500M at this point is just trying to get dibs on "first!" without showing their work.

comment #26

CinemaPhreek says ...

Uh, no Holmes nudity in SMOKING.

PWNDed by facts.

Again.

As usual.

comment #27

actionman says ...

Armond White thought War and Torque were great action films.

War and Torque.

What an ass-clown.

comment #28

Entropy says ...

The Dark Knight does not break 250 domestic, kids. Sorry to break to you. I was an usher as a teen during the first Batman in 89 and this film does not even come close to the anticipation of that film. Theatres had police in place for crowd control. Nicholson then was a much bigger star than Ledger is/was now, his unfortunate passing aside.

I do not know what the average age is of the HE reader but anyone who says over 250 is whack. Films only gross over 250 with rare exception if they hit the family audience or catch a cultural zeitgeist (Titanic, Passion). The Dark Knight just has a lot of fanboys hoping for NC-17 level violence that they are (sorry to break it to ya) not gonna get.

And sorry one more time...this does nothing different theamatically than Batman Returns. "You complete me" is no different than "You're a freak like me" which DeVito said in the Burton film. At least the Burton film was sexy with Pfeiffer.

Hey I am a Batman fan and can't wait for the film but enough is enough.

comment #29

Chase Kahn says ...

"Meh, excuse me as I go see Indy 4 again."

...good luck with that...

Jeff stating that 4 freakin' people disliked the movie (which only 2 actually wrote negative publications), is ridiculous...

What about the 130+ reviewers calling it amazing...

comment #30

DarthCorleone says ...

The supporting cast as a unit is most definitely known. Show me a regular moviegoer who isn't aware of and probably likes the work of at least ONE of the following: Heath Ledger, Gary Oldman, Aaron Eckhart, Morgan Freeman, Maggie Gyllenhaal, & Michael Caine. Just pointing out that you think Ledger and Eckhart are not as known is a strawman. Look at the ensemble.

And, yeah, to my disappointment, Katie Holmes was not nude in Thank You For Smoking.

I didn't enjoy Batman Begins; I thought it was rather dull and the last act was particularly weak. I'm a fan of all Nolan's other films, though, so I have hopes for this.

comment #31

Chase Kahn says ...

"The Dark Knight just has a lot of fanboys hoping for NC-17 level violence that they are (sorry to break it to ya) not gonna get."

That's not an accurate statement, call the fanboys what you want, but they aren't going for some "NC-17" violence...you just proved the fanboys know more about the appeal of BATMAN than you...

"The Dark Knight does not break 250 domestic, kids. Sorry to break to you. I was an usher as a teen during the first Batman in 89 and this film does not even come close to the anticipation of that film. Theatres had police in place for crowd control. Nicholson then was a much bigger star than Ledger is/was now, his unfortunate passing aside."

your crazy, worst case scenario it does IRON MAN money with $100 million domestically in 3 days...and I doubt it will get any competition from X-FILES or STEP BROTHERS the next week...

comment #32

Arran says ...

The Dark Knight does not break 250 domestic, kids.

Care to place a wager on that? You really think it's making (considerably) less than Iron Man?

Sure, in admissions numbers it may fall short of the Burton Batman. But less than $250m?

No way it breaks $500m, though. I would bet against $400m too. But $300m is the minimum, surely.

comment #33

D.Z. says ...

Entropy: I wouldn't say Nicholson was huge as much as Nicholson as the Joker. But yeah, I don't feel the energy for TDK like I did the Burton film. [People seemed to be more hyped about Iron Man.] Batman Begins probably disappointed, partly out of people getting tired of that series, and it looks like the franchise might finally run its course with this one.

Darth: No one knows Oldman outside of his drug problems and one-dimensional appearances in Luc Besson movies. Maggie's the sister of the more unpopular brother actor, so that doesn't mean much, either.

comment #34

CinemaPhreek says ...

Entropy - older and apparently wise that you.

All one has to do is remember that BEGINS did $200M with nowhere near this level of awareness (the summer of SITH). You are going to look very foolish in about 3 weeks when $250M is in the rearview mirror. Unless that was a typo and you meant to write $350M.

I mean, hell, T2, did $200M 17 years ago and it was rated R.

But I guess now is when the contrarian masses rise up do battle with what they see as the hyper overkill.

comment #35

Mr. Muckle says ...

Entropy: "Many many many things happen in this world that have absolutely nothing to do with Bush or Cheney. That line of thought is simplistic and tired."

Good for you that you're beyond the need for illustrative examples. Still, Bush/Cheney are the current, local best example of using the concept of absolute evil for political expediency and cover for their own despicable ends, and accomplishing mass murder in the process.

"Do you really think the intricate cultural tapestries of the world will change if/when Obama is elected president?"

And you purport to side with Armond White, who decries nihilism? Yes, it is possible for anyone not as bumfuck stupid as GWBush to make things better.

comment #36

Chase Kahn says ...

DZ: "Batman Begins probably disappointed, partly out of people getting tired of that series, and it looks like the franchise might finally run its course with this one."

Why would it run its course after arguably, the two best films of its history? I'm presuming THE DARK KNIGHT is better than BATMAN and RETURNS (won't have to try very hard)...

comment #37

CinemaPhreek says ...

Apparently, overseas there is reluctance to voice support for Obama least the reactionaries supporting McCain will use it to damage him I would say that if he is elected, Obama could very well start a global change because only a fool doesn't understand that the day he takes office our standing in the world goes up. WAY the fuck up.

In California, a new polls shows McCain is steadily loosing his already deficient support among nonpartisan voters. Overall, McCain is losing California by 24 points.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/07/field-poll-says.html

comment #38

Arran says ...

After it grosses $97 billlion worldwide, watch DZ show up here and try and claim that makes it a disaster.

This is, after all, the man who said people "weren't interested" in Grand Theft Auto 4 AFTER it had the highest-grossing launch day of any product in entertainment history.

comment #39

D.Z. says ...

Phreek: "I mean, hell, T2, did $200M 17 years ago and it was rated R."

Terminator 2 came off as a newer and shinier version of the last film. Dark Knight's giving us another Joker, when we were fine with Jack.

"In California, a new polls shows McCain is steadily loosing his already deficient support among nonpartisan voters. Overall, McCain is losing California by 24 points."

It's not California Obama needs to win, though. They generally vote Democrats for President, anyway.

Kahn: Batman had the edge, back when it was the only comic book movie done right, but now there are tons of others. Hell, 300 did better for the same studio than 'Begins; and that sucker had less initial hype than TDK.

comment #40

D.Z. says ...

Arran: GTA IV did well, but wasn't enough to dig Sony out of a financial pit.

comment #41

Filmsnob says ...

So, right now (and it changes often) it's 94% on the RT meter...and 92% among "Top Critics". Not too shabby!

comment #42

btwnproductions says ...

My hope is that it makes $800 million and closes on Monday. Whatever it takes to cut down on the grosses gab.

I left unsatisfied, but it wasn't like I was crushed and demoralized. It didn't work for me and that was that. It's hard to get emotional about franchise filmmaking, however "personal" or sincere.

"Post 9/11 psychology" is pretty much played out in the movies, and is ripe for satire. It's not just NY critics who are bored.

comment #43

Arran says ...

Sony didn't make GTA4. What's your point?

comment #44

D.Z. says ...

Arran: GTA IV was supposed to make Sony, though; and the fact that it didn't means it's probably peaked.

comment #45

Mgmax says ...

So, is there another Batman movie or something? Did they get Michael Keaton back?

comment #46

btwnproductions says ...

No, 80-year-old Adam West is back in action.

comment #47

D.Z. says ...

btwn: Hey, if it worked for Sly...

comment #48

Chase Kahn says ...

Okay, true, DZ, but let's remember the state of the BATMAN franchise at the time of BEGINS release, hell, I didn't even care about it seeing how I grew up on Batman & Robin....

And you may be fine with Jack's Joker, but atleast he wont' be dancing to Prince this time around...

comment #49

CinemaPhreek says ...

I was about to write something to refute the fact that, broken record time, D.Z. missed the point.

But, would rather go out and play with the dog in fading sunlight. At least she learns things eventually.

comment #50

Count Thread says ...

Stop feeding D.Z.

comment #51

Evan Boucher says ...

A. You could argue that 'Begins' was a huge cinematic achievement because it revived a played out franchise before anyone really asked for a revival, when everyone was expecting the worst, he delivered more.
B. There is going to be a high repeat viewer number on this because of the existing fanboy nature of it and the reported quality of it. Quite frankly, (supposedly) there's nothing else that is in its league so far across the whole spectrum.
C. The ONLY stumbling block in front of it is that it won't cure cancer. At this point, every review is virtual fellatio for everyone involved. Between the reviews, ledger, the IMAX bs, how can you expect less than the summer blockbuster of all time? and if those ARE the expectations, how can it possibly meet them?

That is my point. now feel free to dissect one man's opinion

comment #52

Evan Boucher says ...

A. You could argue that 'Begins' was a huge cinematic achievement because it revived a played out franchise before anyone really asked for a revival, when everyone was expecting the worst, he delivered more.
B. There is going to be a high repeat viewer number on this because of the existing fanboy nature of it and the reported quality of it. Quite frankly, (supposedly) there's nothing else that is in its league so far across the whole spectrum.
C. The ONLY stumbling block in front of it is that it won't cure cancer. At this point, every review is virtual fellatio for everyone involved. Between the reviews, ledger, the IMAX bs, how can you expect less than the summer blockbuster of all time? and if those ARE the expectations, how can it possibly meet them?

That is my point. now feel free to dissect one man's opinion

comment #53

Evan Boucher says ...

A. You could argue that 'Begins' was a huge cinematic achievement because it revived a played out franchise before anyone really asked for a revival, when everyone was expecting the worst, he delivered more.
B. There is going to be a high repeat viewer number on this because of the existing fanboy nature of it and the reported quality of it. Quite frankly, (supposedly) there's nothing else that is in its league so far across the whole spectrum.
C. The ONLY stumbling block in front of it is that it won't cure cancer. At this point, every review is virtual fellatio for everyone involved. Between the reviews, ledger, the IMAX bs, how can you expect less than the summer blockbuster of all time? and if those ARE the expectations, how can it possibly meet them?

That is my point. now feel free to dissect one man's opinion

comment #54

Michael says ...

Just for the record, I was not ok with Nicholson's Joker. He played him like a fairy. Seriously...dancing to Prince?

comment #55

D.Z. says ...

Michael: He's a clown. What do you expect?

comment #56

Jake says ...

Titanic's opening weekend really wasn't much to write home about. It steadily built its fortune over several months- against virtually zero competition. After all, I believe it was "Lost In Space" that finally broke the #1 streak!

I do think the studio was probably better off playing this one cool- and acting as if they really believed it would only open to around $90 million. Now if the film doesn't crack $150 million, it will be viewed as a letdown by many.

What happened to simply letting a film sell out on opening weekend- and having that "must see" factor carry over to the second weekend? Why does everything now have to be crammed into opening night?

It's no longer a case of whether or not The Dark Knight will be huge- but how huge it has to be. We should probably remember that the highest-grossing Batman film is still Tim Burton's original. And that was only about $250 million (domestic). So, in 20 years, the franchise has never had a bigger hit. This should tell us something about how far the "Batman" name extends.

We're also dealing with a film that is very dark in tone- and those are typically the lowest-grossing of a franchise (ie. Empire Strikes Back). How many are going to go expecting a dark film, and how many are going to go expecting a comicbook movie?

If nothing else, I think it stands a very real chance of breaking the opening day record- especially with the record number of screens and additional showtimes.

comment #57

JVD says ...

Just got back from an early TDK screening. The movie is fantastic--dark, gritty, far more morally complex than your typical summer fare. You've heard the critics gush and they're most right on about it, so no need to go over it again.

That said, this thing is going to be big, but it will have a ceiling. It's disturbing and oppressive and not going to be palatable to the kind of audience needed to make this thing a $400 million box office hit. If it does cross that, then the moviegoing public has finally wised up. Though I'm not betting on them.

It's a great flick. It will make a boatload. It deserves to. But it's not the kind of movie that screams "love me."

comment #58

supertaster says ...

Evan ... you mentioned stumbling blocks and left out

D. Maggie Gyllenhaal's pompous butt-ugliness.

Cinemafreak...you just PWNED yourself by using the phrase PWNED. Seriously, how old are you?

And amongst all of Zelter's ramblings, he does have a point...california matters as much in this election about as much as france...it's already been written off.

comment #59

Entropy says ...

The first Harry Potter barely scratched over 300 million it is far more zeitgeist friendly than TDK. You fanboys are gonna be crying in your specially marked Bat chocolate bars when this thing closes under 250.

comment #60

PoisonSkin says ...

fuck. who cares what it makes. we aren't getting any of it.

comment #61

CinemaPhreek says ...

Entropy - if it helps you to think so, fine. But I'm approaching this simply as an exercise based on pattern recognition, something we are hard-wired to do. My fan boy days died, alas, many moons ago.

supertaster - they say you aren't anyone until someone starts becoming obsessed with you. Thanks... I think.

comment #62

MAGGA says ...

Usually I think Box Office speculation is a worthless pursuit for film fans, but if this and Benjamin Button are gigantic hits this year, imagine what'll be greenlit! We might get another 1999 in 2010. That goes for Iron Man in a way, too, because Favrau was a wild card and I hope people will take chances like that more often. Which I guess means it's time for me to check out Iron Man, as bored by most comic book movies as I've been since I was ten.

comment #63

JohnCope says ...

"That said, this thing is going to be big, but it will have a ceiling. It's disturbing and oppressive and not going to be palatable to the kind of audience needed to make this thing a $400 million box office hit."

This is dead on and cannot be stressed enough. At this point we're still seeing the critical plaudits and hearing the yowling fan boy appreciation but it will take more than that for this thing to top off the way everyone seems to assume it will. I'm betting that it absolutely will not and the drop off will be huge. If it isn't though I don't believe that success signals that the audience has "wised up"; I think it just suggests that they buy into the film's philosophy (which is confrontational and unavoidable) far more than was expected (which says a lot more about presenet day attitudes than any appreciation for the artisitc merits of this film); or at least they buy into its surface despair--whether they fully appreciate how thoroughly worked out it is I would doubt. For Dark Knight is relentlessly despair driven and not in some glib, you-can-just-blow-it-off fashionable teenage nihilist sort of way. It's exactly because Nolan is smart and has thought about his film's philosophy thoroughly that this is ultimately impossible to do, for this is a man who clearly believes what he's putting out there and it does not allow for the validity of hope at all. This is not what people for the most part expect. It may, however, be what they want to see. Time will tell.

comment #64

EDouglas says ...

>>"I think this movie is at least $500 million domestic due to these factors: (a) Everyone knows Batman, (b) Crazy Batman fanboys who will see it over and over again; (c) IMAX impact; (d) Uber talented director in his prime; (e) Known supporting cast; (f) Love from critics; (g) No other summer blockbusters creating the anti-blockbuster hangover; and (h) the totally stand-alone, can't-be-duplicated selling point of seeing Ledger's finale, both for the reported genius and the respect people have for him as a person.

I think it's high point is $400 million however much it makes this weekend for the very reason this article was written... expectations have been built too high. If 1 and 2 were true, then the previous movies would have made more money. TIm Burton's Batman topped out at $250 million and that was the most successful of the series... even Nolan's last one wasn't able to sustain itself beyond a couple weekends. This will do well because of the ridiculous media frenzy that's built upon the tragic death of Heath Ledger... I seriously hope Warners Bros. sends his parents a check for $5 - 10 million from the profits as thanks for producing such a fine thespian.

comment #65

moorish says ...

You can feel Jeff yearning for a reason to hate this movie.

comment #66

CinemaPhreek says ...

JohnCope - So in essence what you are saying is that it can't possibly make that much money... unless it does? You don't happen to work in politics, do you?

EDouglas - Burton's BATMAN topped out at $433M in adjusted dollars.

comment #67

supertaster says ...

cfreak, don't pull out those old message board insults, please ... is it any wonder so many responses are directed your way when you are single-handedly responsible for 30% of the comments posted to HE on a daily basis, and so often off-base or flat out wrong??

comment #68

CinemaPhreek says ...

SuperT - 30%? Wow, in order to over estimate to that degree.... man, there must be some sort of "Cinemaphreek" shrine in your room.