comment #1

renorambler says ...

Agreed. I think Jolie can be a fine actress but would be way too vampy for the tone Nolan has gone for. And I'm also thrilled for Eckhart. I would love to see him move up a couple steps on the ladder so that he can have better role choices. There's an easy charm to him on screen that I quite like even if he has had some spotty film history.

comment #2

Ju-osh says ...

If this is true, then the over-arching moral to Nolan's Batflicks is either:
You can't fight fire with fire without everyone eventually getting burned.
or
Hey, kids-- drop out of med school. The real money's in costume making.

comment #3

The Winchester says ...

Yeah, I think that's a terrible idea, and quite baseless. Nolan's Bat-verse has strived to put realism over fantastic elements, and the ressurection of Rachel seems too far out there for his vision. I remember reading (or hearing) that Maggie G and Aaron Eckhart signed on for two pictures, but I think that was mis-information so we wouldn't expect either character biting it in the second flick.

On top of which, if they choose to bring back Rachel and make her Catwoman, the movie becomes Spider-man 3, where everybody is interconnected in ways they didn't think possible from the two previous movies. All the next Batman would nneed then is 4 musical numbers.

(Oh and fanboy nerd alert, Wells, It's "Dawes" not "Dawson". Dawson was the show the previous Dawes was on.)

comment #4

NDH says ...

I always thought Amy Adams had a cat-like vibe about her. Just throwing it out there.

comment #5

btwnproductions says ...

Rachel "died" in such an obvious way--offscreen, like a soap opera character--that it would be quite easy for her to return as Catwoman or in some other guise. I predicted as much here in an earlier thread.

Two-Face, unlikely. But I'm sure Morgan Freeman will return.

The problem that Nolan faces is enraging the fanboys by "dumbing it down" by returning Rachel to the storyline, or reviving the Joker with another actor. Personally, I don't mind such comic book stuff, and in fact prefer it over the groaning pretension of the new film--but Bat-fanatics want to "keep it real," and the base will turn on Nolan as surely as it did on critics who didn't much care for TDK if he goes in that direction.

comment #6

thatrader says ...

I wish cancer on you Jeff for once again being an asshole of such magnitude that you didn't realize that SOME OF US still haven't seen The Dark Knight and you just casually fucking ruined this movie for us.

I can't wait for the day I go to a screening and can ruin a film for you, you smug prick.

comment #7

breadlymoore says ...

"I wish cancer on you Jeff for once again being an asshole of such magnitude that you didn't realize that SOME OF US still haven't seen The Dark Knight and you just casually fucking ruined this movie for us."

Good lord, why even come to a hub like this in the first place?

You need to grow up. Retreat to a dark corner if you really want to remain spoiler-free. Quit blaming others for your own faults.

comment #8

Undercover Brother says ...

This would be such a cheap way to undermine the dramatic arc of TDK. There's nothing lamer than bringing characters back from the dead. I doubt this is true and I really doubt Nolan would stoop so low as to try something like this. I hope not anyway.

comment #9

Meegosh says ...

The movie has been out for two and a half weeks. He's running a movie blog (some times at least). Hes going to have to give spoilers to movies at some point or he will have nothing to talk about (other than Obama). If you don't want spoilers after a move has come out I suggest you stop frequenting movie sites, yeeesh.

comment #10

Aris P says ...

Thatrader -- why are you here, reading a Dark Knight thread? give me a break. Also, not judging you b/c i don't care, but if you're a fan what are you waiting to see it for?

comment #11

EOTW says ...

I really thought that 2 Face was dead. my brother is so positive that he isn't. I thought that, since they had signed AE to two flicks, the Joker would die maybe at the end of TDK and it would set up 2 Face as the cil for the 3rd pic. He can still be that, I guess.

The idea of RD beong Catwoman is farfetched. She seemed pretty dead to me, slightly offscreen or not. I LOVE the idea of MG being Catwoman, but maybe they shoulda thought of that before they shot TDK.

That being said, as much as Jolie has obvious baggage, she would make a GREAT Catwoman. Yeah, she vamps, but Catwoman vamps, dangit! She'd be good and Nolan could rein her in a bit more than most directors have been able to.

I still say James Gandolfini for Penguin. That's a solid set up right there.

comment #12

EOTW says ...

God, that's a great pic. Mmmm...

comment #13

insidah says ...

I am so sick of Angelina Jolie's style of acting - smug, vampy posturing. She doesn't even look like a human being, she looks like a cartoon character thanks to all the plastic surgery. Casting her as Catwoman is so on the nose boring. Whoever suggested Amy Adams, however, is on to something. She would nail it in an unconventional way.

comment #14

LuckyWilbury says ...

Jeff: If you really want to start a good rumor,
start the one that says HEATH LEDGER
will return in the next Batman movie.
Think about it. There's probably extra footage
of Ledger from The Dark Knight that could be used, and
with a good body double and loads of moody
scenes shot from the back -- just as in TDK --
Heath could make a cool resurrection of sorts.

comment #15

C-PhreekII says ...

Funny this is being discussed, because that was on of my criticisms of TDK, that we never saw her body. In a film striving for realism, why do get to enjoy the grotesque visage of Dent yet Nolan couldn't even do an oblique angle past the corpse. We barely met them in life, but the image of Luke Skywalker's caretakers' skeletons had a poignant impact in STAR WARS because we could see their deaths were brutal.

To not show the body is to invite this sort of speculation because even 11 year olds are sophisticated enough to know that old "if you don't see a body, then they aren't really dead" dodge.

comment #16

EOTW says ...

I still say Nolan could tone down Jolie while still letting her strut and be beautiful. If anyone can, it's him.

LW (great nick, BTW!): I've heard that notion before, but it doesn't seem likely to happen. NOlan is a pretty economical filmmaker and his economy impresses all. I doubt there are LOADS of extra scenes laying around and the idea of having a shadowy body double, shot from behind just seems to fake. If they go that far, why not go the whole Livia Soprano/Oliver Reed route and do the face pasting. God, I hate that crap. Makes the thing look like a cartoon. NO, they won't do that.

You guys heard the one casting idea of DDL for Mr. Freeze?

comment #17

C-PhreekII says ...

And, yeah, typical "I've got mine, screw you" attitude shown by Wells and supporters over spoiling the movie.

The IMAX screenings are still selling out, so show some fucking courtesy that some people might still be having to make an effort to see the film you selfish dickwads.

comment #18

C-PhreekII says ...

And, yeah, typical "I've got mine, screw you" attitude shown by Wells and supporters over spoiling the movie.

The IMAX screenings are still selling out, so show some fucking courtesy that some people might still be having to make an effort to see the film you selfish dickwads. I glanced at the post and didn't notice there isn't a spoiler alert up there until others pointed it out.

comment #19

BurmaShave says ...

Yeah, it's been 15 days. This isn't exactly him spoiling TELL NO ONE. You very much had a responsibility to see it by now if you wanted to be part of the zeitgeist film discussion, which one assumes you did if you were on here. I've been the first one to bemoan spoilers when appropriate (such as revealing Llewellyn Moss's death during a Cannes press conference post) but this is not Wells being Wells. Also wishing cancer on a man who just lost a sister to it, however in jest, is absolutely deplorable. It's a damn movie.

comment #20

JohnCope says ...

"Casting (Jolie) as Catwoman is so on the nose boring."

Yes. Absolutely.

Now casting Asia Argento would be a stroke of Ledger level genius.

And no Two Face should not be back.

comment #21

qwiggles says ...

Rachel didn't die; she just did the Transporting Man trick. Ten of her will return next time, amidst a pile of top hats and -- dare I say? -- kittens.

comment #22

Gnome de Guerre says ...

As has been mentioned before on this site and many other sites trucking in movie discussions, why not just leave the little spoiler till after the jump? That circumvents the tired "it's been out for 15 whole days ya numbnutz!" type of argument, whether pro or con.

comment #23

The Winchester says ...

Nolan should abandon this cast, jump 20 years ahead, get Daniel Day Lewis and do Dark Knight Returns. Bardem could be Joker.

And I second what Burma says about both the zeitgeist film discussion. It's been out for two weeks, is a cultural phenom, is making more money than God, etc. Save your whining for AICN.

"The IMAX screenings are still selling out, so show some fucking courtesy that some people might still be having to make an effort to see the film you selfish dickwads."

Yeah, because the movie didn't open on the more screens than any other movie before it, ever. Hell, it even played at art houses. You could actually make a concentrated effort to NOT see the film, and still have wound up seeing it.

comment #24

btwnproductions says ...

Argento has presence, but she's not much of an actress. Jolie can act (A MIGHTY HEART, etc.) but is played out in these sorts of pictures. Adams is an interesting idea.

comment #25

Mgmax says ...

I feel like there should be more discussion of Maggie Gyllenhall, as long as it's accompanied by photos like this.

It's funny how many people think she's not attractive. I think she's the last non-cyborg female star Hollywood has, and that's why I think she's attractive and they don't....

comment #26

BurmaShave says ...

Having just seen XFILES I WANT TO BELIEVE (mehhhhhh), what does anyone think of Gillian Anderson as Catwoman? A little old maybe, but I'd love to see her do something vampy.

comment #27

bb says ...

The problem with wishing cancer on somebody is that if they ever get cancer, you have to live with the guilt.

I don't get all this love for Gyllenhaal in TDK, I found her to be the weakest link in the movie. And god forbid, I thought the movie was a pretentious snoozefest devoid of any sense of pacing or dramatic structure. I even saw it a second time because friends thought I must be INSANE to have that opinion. It didn't improve on a second screening.

comment #28

Dravot says ...

Bzzzt!

This is primarily a movie blog. After a film has been in wide release for a weekend, it should be fair game for discussion. If the onus is on Jeffrey to avoid spoiling a film *before* its release, it shifts to the *reader* to avoid spoilers *after* it's been in theatres for a week. 'Cause the rest of us will want to talk about it. You can dodge those stories and catch up with us later.

Oh, and I think it would be absolutely retarded for Gyllenhaal or Eckhart to return in the next movie. IMHO that would undo everything the Nolans did in TDK. Those Nolans are clever chaps, but I don't think they can write their way out of those deaths.

As for who the next villain(s) should be...? Frankly, I think Catwoman is a rather cheesy character, and I don't see her as an appropriate antagonist (and/or love interest) in this particular take on Batman. The Penguin... maybe, as a secondary villain, like the mobsters. Scarface and Prof Strange have suitable psychological angles, but are they "big" enough to carry a movie? I dunno. At this point, my guess would be The Riddler; he seems to hit all the right notes: "marquee name," brilliant mind, sociopathic. And he may have been introduced in TDK. The guy who tried to rat out Bruce Wayne? Wasn't his name Mr. Reese? "Mysteries?"

comment #29

jesse says ...

I'm surprised that so many people seem so convinced that Dent/Two-Face is dead. I mean, he takes a big but not unsurvivable fall, and that's the last time we see his body. We see a memorial service, but not even a casket (if I recall correctly). And Gordon and Batman basically talk about how they're going to sweep his Two-Face thing under the rug. I was sort of thinking that they would therefore ship Dent off to Arkham and *say* that he died heroically.

I was surprised that this wasn't addressed directly, because I sort of went into the movie assuming Two-Face would turn up but not really become a major villain until movie three, but I was also assuming it was left oblique because that's something for next time.

I'd be shocked if they left Dent this way, just because he's such a huge presence in the comics -- to kill him off after one movie would be very old-franchise. I don't think it would "undo" anything about TDK -- the themes stay intact if Dent stays villainous.

Bringing back the Rachel Dawes character would be silly, though, and I doubt Nolan would do that (or even necessarily tackle Catwoman) (though I agree, better Gyllenhaal than Jolie). I doubt they'll recast the Joker, either. They'll have a nod to him being in Arkham, offscreen, or say that no one has seen him since he escaped Arkham last month, or whatever.

The Penguin would fit into this universe well because of the mob-boss angle, but frankly Penguin was one of the villains where I thought the earlier franchise had a better version than most of the comics incarnations. The Penguin is pretty dull in most of the comics; I liked Burton's freakier take. Catwoman, too, was more interest in Batman Returns than in most of the comics. So I wouldn't mind seeing them tackling the Riddler... but then, Two-Face + Riddler + third movie might be a little too Batman Forever. Maybe Two-Face as the main baddie with Scarface and/or the Penguin in the background.

comment #30

supertaster says ...

Max, if Maggie really looked like this everybody would find her attractive. But she doesn't, so we don't.

comment #31

MickTravis says ...

Morgan Freeman's contracted for the next movie.

Maybe HE will play Catwoman.

Hey, the man is an Actor.

comment #32

Mgmax says ...

"Max, if Maggie really looked like this everybody would find her attractive. But she doesn't, so we don't"

Check out the picture in the new Maxim if you want to see airbrushing taken to an absurd extent. She looks like her freshly-grown clone.

(Then go to page 102 for my teeny-tiny item on Khan BBQ...)

comment #33

The Hoyk says ...

A good friend suggested to me that treacherous accountant Coleman Reese (Joshua Harto) may be groomed to become the Riddler, citing that his name creates a bad pun ("Mister Reese"), and he knows Batman's real identity. While this is not in line with any previous Bat-canon, since most everyone knows the Riddler's name was Edward Nygma, it's still an interesting theory.

He also suggested that "Tiny" Lister, the tattooed prisoner who resists the Joker's proposition, may be groomed to become Bane. Again, not in line with previous adaptations, since I recall Bane being vaguely Spanish and in a luchador mask, but neat to contemplate.

comment #34

BurmaShave says ...

That would destroy everything that was badass and effective about Wayne saving Reese and then the moment shared between the two of them. As for Lister, his moment is when I realized just how good the movie was and how much I was really watching the Superhero HEAT.

comment #35

D.Z. says ...

Jeff: I'm more surprised that you managed to find an attractive photo of Gyllenhaal. 8-01&p=.htm

Mgmax: If she could catch my eye this well most of the time, II'd agree. But she tends to come off a bit tomboyish for my tastes.

Anyway, speaking of TDK, looks like it won't be a contender for Titanic's spot after all....
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/daily/chart/?sortdate=2008-0

comment #36

frankbooth says ...

Maggie will play Catwoman in a wheelchair with burns over 90 percent of her body. Her character GOT BLOWED UP. Seriously, folks.

"This would be such a cheap way to undermine the dramatic arc of TDK. There's nothing lamer than bringing characters back from the dead. I doubt this is true and I really doubt Nolan would stoop so low as to try something like this. I hope not anyway."

Agreed...

"That would destroy everything that was badass and effective about Wayne saving Reese and then the moment shared between the two of them"

...and agreed.

Plus Harto is not a "name" and doesn't have much of a presence, at least not in TDK. Just don't see it.

The problem with The Riddler in general is that if he has Bats chasing clues around the city, it's Die Hard 3. The Nolans had better have some radical, Joker-style reinterpretation in mind if this character is gonna work. And he has to work, because they're running out of appropriate major villains.

Penguins and/or Mr. Freezes, no. Might as well bring in King Tut.

The Curse of Part Three looms. Hope I'm pleasantly surprised. But...

comment #37

Rod32303 says ...

Pfeiffer will, for me, forever own the role, no disrespect, so I don't give a shit who they get. Her Selena Kyle was bold work...and far less cheesy in that film than DeVito's.

comment #38

Mgmax says ...

Pfeiffer was so much more interesting as Catwoman than anything else in that movie that the failure to immediately make a Catwoman movie, and instead to make a deeply stupid one 10 or 15 years later, counts as one of the biggest studio screwups of the last 50 years.

comment #39

Mgmax says ...

And I am now more convinced than ever that one of the best things about Batman Begins was that its villains were ones who had never been used in either the Adam West series or the previous Batman movie.

I mean, Jesus, Mr. Freeze. Make the fricking Heat of superhero movies with Mr. Freeze.

comment #40

Mgmax says ...

previous Batman movies

comment #41

AndrewOwens says ...

They should use some of the more obscure villains as they did in the first film. Instead of Catwoman, what about Talia Al Ghul, daughter of Liam Neeson's character in Batman Begins? She's basically a really foxy ecoterrorist who wants to jump Batman's bones (and knows his secret identity). And instead of the Riddler, what about The Ventriloquist, a seemingly quiet, schlubby guy with a creepy, ultra violent talking doll (think Anthony Hopkins in Magic) - in the comics they play it ambiguously so you can't be sure if it's just a doll or if there's something supernatural about it.

Or, there's always Bat Mite.

comment #42

alynch says ...

Talia Al Ghul is not a bad idea. It'd be connected to the previous movie, and they're going to have to introduce both a new villian and a new love interest in the third one. Might as well kill two birds with one stone.

comment #43

D.Z. says ...

frank: "Maggie will play Catwoman in a wheelchair with burns over 90 percent of her body."

You're thinking of Batgirl in Birds of Prey. ^_- Also, there's nothing wrong with Die Hard 3, compared to Die Hard 4.

Mgmax: I'm guessing the reason they never made a Catwoman movie immediately after 'Returns was because Buffy did so poorly and because, up until The Matrix, every action or adventure movie with a female lead which was not Speed or Pelican Brief bombed. Oh, and also because Sharon Stone didn't live up to the hype of a bankable genre female lead after Basic Instinct.

comment #44

D.Z. says ...

I probably shouldn't discount Supercop or even Tomorrow Never dies, when I say female lead, but the emphasis was clearly not on Michelle Yeoh in either case.

comment #45

D.Z. says ...

The emphasis in the American marketing, I mean.

comment #46

K. Bowen says ...

The problem with Jolie as Catwoman, besides that her arms are approaching the size of celery, is that she would instantly try to make herself larger than the film. SO that's a no-go.

Best candidates, to my mind, other than Gyllenhaal, are Saffron Burrows or Marion Cotillard.

comment #47

K. Bowen says ...

"Having just seen XFILES I WANT TO BELIEVE (mehhhhhh), what does anyone think of Gillian Anderson as Catwoman? A little old maybe, but I'd love to see her do something vampy."

I've thought about that. Would love it. But I don't see it happening. And didn't want to be the first to bring it up. Thank you.

comment #48

Unison says ...

They should just cast talented Heath lookalike Joseph Gordon-Levitt as the Joker, imo. If they don't have a Joker, the movie will be reduced, no doubt. Heath was superb, but there's no reason they can't cast someone else. They can even say Joker had shock therapy at Arkham, which gave him new tics or some shit. I don't care. Bring back Joker.

I wouldn't mind if either Dent or Rachel came back, to be honest, though both might feel problematic.

comment #49

Aladdin Sane says ...

Dawes is dead. Dent is maybe not dead. Seeing it twice I am still not sure. But yeah, Dawes was in a warehouse full of gasoline that blew up. If she survived that, she's in the wrong franchise. She's a fuckin' X-Woman.

Marion Cotillard as Catwoman. There's inspired casting. I too worry that if this Jolie as Catwoman thing pans out that she'll overpower the universe with her wattage.

I don't think the third movie needs to have Joker...but if Joker escapes and Dent is alive and also escapes Arkham in an effort to get Joker, well...now that'd be fun...Especially if all we ever see are Dent's efforts as Batman tries to stop him from going too far...Joker can just be underground. I dunno...I'm tired and geeking out a bit.

comment #50

frankbooth says ...

As for Gyllenhaal and Eckhart being signed for two films, can you say "flashback?" It's not like Nolan is a stranger to this particular device.

And this may sound uber-cynical, but just as Ledger's death was undoubtedly a selling point for TDK, seeing a different big-name actor's take on the Joker could be one for part 3. Audiences will show up just to see if Depp or Day-Lewis or Rob Schneider pulls it off.

comment #51

Jay T. says ...

Jolie would be SO much better as Catwoman... I can't believe anyone would choose Gyllenhaal over her.

comment #52

Geoff157 says ...

I love the idea of Maggie Gyllenhal as Catwoman, but Mia Kirshner would be a great choice for that role.

comment #53

Geoff157 says ...

By the way, as long as we're going for curious reports, hasn't anybody seen this one about Johnny Depp and Philip Seymore Hoffman, with one source being the National Enquirer?

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/wenn/20080731/ten-depp-to-play-the-riddler-c60bd6d.html

comment #54

Mgmax says ...

"Dawes is dead. Dent is maybe not dead. Seeing it twice I am still not sure."

That was one thing that really annoyed me in this one, all three major deaths had wiggle room in them (and the fourth was faked). Ras al-Ghul died the second time, at least.

comment #55

frankbooth says ...

Who was the third major death? I'm drawing a blank. Do you mean Roberts, because we just see the car flip?

(I'm still bugged that he was walking around. We do briefly see him using a cane, but he should have required two crutches, if not a wheelchair.)

We do see Rachel being zipped into a body bag, though she does look rather pristine, considering.

And how do you know Ras is dead? Maybe he jumped out of the train and used his handkerchief as a parachute. Or used his Rejuvenating Barbeque Pit, or whatever is in the comic books.

comment #56

Aladdin Sane says ...

I always love early casting - someone was mentioning these rumours to me today and I said I was unaware a script had been written, given that TDK has only been out for a couple weeks now.

I'm not sure Depp as Riddler is a good fit though...if they were gonna go a little more fantastical, I think he'd make a great Clayface.

comment #57

Josh says ...

they arent going to kill off a great character and great bad guy like two face like that. hes def back for the 3rd

comment #58

hcat says ...

If they are going to cast Catwoman or Poison Ivy, I would like to see them go with Eva Green. Easily the most bewitching actress working right now. You can almost hear the voice purr.

I would also like to see Helen Mirren in the Catwoman suit. Not necessarily in the next Batman movie but just sometime soon, perhaps New Years or my Birthday.

comment #59

SimonSays says ...

That unnamed "Hollywood Newsroom" is Maggie's agent trying to generate buzz so that Maggie can get the role. Problem is 99% of America hated Maggie in the role of Rachel Dawes. In fact, even those critics who panned Katie Holmes in the role thought that Katie was a much better choice than Maggie.
Problem with Maggie is that she always thinks that she has a better grasp of the character than the directors she works with. Rachel's character required being a "damsel in distress." Maggie "debated" with Nolan and said she didn't want to play a damsel in distress. So she created this b*tch character without a heart - and it made no sense why two faced and batman would both be vying for her love.
Her character was the weakest part of the movie. And if she plays catwoman, I can guarantee you that no one will pay to watch her.
She's rumored to have recently gotten some plastic surgery done (some paps caught going into a "medical building" ahem in Rodeo Dr over four times in four weeks) but she'll be too ugly to play catwoman. If the studios want a bomb on their hands and diva b*tch to work with and a movie that no one will watch - Maggie is the go to choice. if they want a decent actress that audiences will pay to watch, anyone else will do

comment #60

dd says ...

Problem with Maggie is that she always thinks that she has a better grasp of the character than the directors she works with. Rachel's character required being a "damsel in distress." Maggie "debated" with Nolan and said she didn't want to play a damsel in distress. So she created this b*tch character without a heart - and it made no sense why two faced and batman would both be vying for her love.
Her character was the weakest part of the movie. And if she plays catwoman, I can guarantee you that no one will pay to watch her.

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comment #62

penchenk87 says ...

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Just to be picky too, according to w3schools.com, the "value" tag is deprecated? But I guess it is still technically valid. I like to be "valid" when I can :)

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