Quayle with Pigtail

If Sarah Palin is only on [the Republican] ticket to try to get disaffected Clinton supporters to cross over, it’s a bad choice. Joe Biden may already be practicing his drop-dead line for the vice-presidential debate: “I know Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton is a friend of mine, and governor, you’re no Hillary Clinton.” — from Gail Collins8.30 N.Y. Times column, titled “McCain’s Baked Alaska.”


My all-time favorite Dan Quayle political cartoon, from a 1992 issue of Newsweek.
  • D.Z.
  • AH

    Obviously Gov. Palin brings a lot more to the McCain camp than just potential Hillary Clinton voters. She will also attract evangelicals, conservatives and pro-lifers i.e. the exact group that brought W. back to the White House and who were unsure about McCain. This is a very good pick.

  • dangovich

    Why didn’t the McCain team vet her voice? It’s nails-on-chalkboard bad, worse than Hillary’s.

  • Stephe96

    It wouldn’t surprise me if Biden uses the “I know Hillary Clinton” line….after all, he IS an admitted plagiarist!

  • Mgmax, le Corbeau

    Besides, the better joke is that McCain will mention Obama saying Lincoln had little experience and say “I knew President Lincoln…”

  • D.Z.

    Stephe: “It wouldn’t surprise me if Biden uses the “I know Hillary Clinton” line….after all, he IS an admitted plagiarist!”
    But when Colin Powell plagiarizes to start a war, think nothing of it.

  • Marty Melville

    A Fox Network-fever dream of the cheerleader who also gets elected president of the student body (Gidget Goes to Washington), Palin is just another domino waiting to fall in McCain’s embarassingly craven “I’ll do anything to get elected” campaign/meltdown.

  • D.Z.

    It’s sand and ironic that the one time Republicans choose to be progressive is when they want to enforce regressive ideologies…Well, not exactly the only time. [*cough* Clarence Thomas *cough*]

  • fielding

    So how many pairs of underpants have you changed since the announcement, Wells? Of course, you have every right to be worried about this smart, articulate, gorgeous woman who’s also the most popular Governor in America.

  • VictorLazlo

    I just want to ask the conservatives who post here, is the ONLY retort for Palin’s lack of experience, “Obama doesn’t have any either.”?
    Do you guys SERIOUSLY think she would make a great President? Michael Savage is the only honest right winger and he went ballistic over this pick.
    To me it’s not even experience, this woman lacks ideas and vision. What has she said about Iraq? Afganistan? Health Care? She’s a lightweight not because of experience, but because she has no ideas. Here is Palin on Iraq:
    I’ve been so focused on state government, I haven’t really focused much on the war in Iraq. I heard on the news about the new deployments, and while I support our president, Condoleezza Rice and the administration, I want to know that we have an exit plan in place; I want assurances that we are doing all we can to keep our troops safe. Every life lost is such a tragedy. I am very, very proud of the troops we have in Alaska, those fighting overseas for our freedoms, and the families here who are making so many sacrifices.”
    THe most a significant line is about an exit plan, which she’ll have to back pedal on to get in line with McCain.
    This says a lot about McCain’s seriousness. What is he going to do if he actually gets elected? Regardless, I think he handed this election to Obama on a silver platter.

  • Arizona Joe

    Timothy Egan, the fine NY Times writer who mainly writes about the West, noted that Palin bears a strong resemblance to Tina Fey. That’s the first damn thing I thought.
    Several Times bloggers said that SNL would have a field day. That’s what I thought.
    Although I don’t like Bain & Co. corporate raider Mitt Romney one wit, he would have been a much better choice. He is an impressive public speaker, and people find him likable.
    The Mormons would have come out in droves, and the Republicans would have won all Rocky Mountain states, as well as Texas easy. (And they could have virtually ignored campaigning there. ) In addition, large LDS populations would have put Oregon and Washington in play.
    Romney’s late father is still wildly popular in Michigan, and the GOP would have had a real shot there. And I believe he would have had a chance in a New England state, e.g., New Hampshire.
    In the south, the red state whites/ evangelicals may not have liked voting for a Mormon, but they would have preferred him to a black.
    Romney is an impressive guy, like him or loathe him. Romney is a brand name. Palin is a hockey mom.; a ridiculous choice born of desperation, and McCain holding a temperamental grudge.

  • VictorLazlo

    Another point: How will the Dr. Laura “I am my kid’s mom” conservative crowd sit with a woman leaving her diabled infant in the hands of a nanny?

  • Ogami Itto

    It’s sand and ironic that the one time Republicans choose to be progressive is when they want to enforce regressive ideologies…Well, not exactly the only time. [*cough* Clarence Thomas *cough*]
    You forgot Condi Rice, Colin Powell, Alberto Gonzales, et al.

  • Ogami Itto

    But yeah, Sarah Palin is cute.

  • BurmaShave

    Yeah, because that line destroyed Dan Quayle and delivered the White House to Michael Dukakis. It will be doubly effective when used on a young woman.

  • Mgmax

    Besides, the better joke is that McCain will mention Obama saying Lincoln had little experience and say “I knew President Lincoln…”

  • qwiggles

    Young woman? She’s 44.

  • qwiggles

    Incidentally, I don’t get a Quayle vibe here. She seems to be a more than capable speaker, irritating voice and gee-golly-isms aside. I think she’s a very shrewd, calculated and effective choice, which is to say I think it’s a cynical, dangerous and condescending pick that could easily win it.

  • http://tsuyoi.typepad.com Joel

    On the plus side, Palin was pleased with Obama’s energy plan. At least she was before being nominated.

  • MariaMaria

    Someone this unused (and unvetted) by the pressure of a national campaign, will probably self-destruct in a week or two. So, the Obama campaign needs to stay confident and stay on message. I think damning with faint praise (but in a way that is not condescending) is the way to go.
    I actually believe that the Obama compaign (and followers) are feeling extraordinarily confident and on-message. No need to be thrown off the game; this is not a game-changer.
    Her strongest appeal to cultural conservatives, but those same conservatives might have some difficulty with voting for a woman, especially if she proves to be a lightweight. Those conservatives, even if they lightly supported Obama for a moment, would likely have gone home to McCain or not voted at all. I’d be interested in seeing numbers.

  • Sefster

    This may be a little off-base, but if I am even the slightest bit correct, it is an interesting if not brilliant move.
    What if this is just a method for them to ridicule Obama. The Republicans know the first thing you think of when you see her is, “what? no experience – and McCain, he’s OLD and could die any moment!”
    Such thoughts open the discussion of why is she unqualified. And their response is simply, “but what’s the difference between Sarah and Barack?” They are both attractive, well-spoken, and have had very little “time in the box,” especially with foreign affairs. But of course, the first thing all of us are thinking is “she doesn’t have the experience”. I truly think the Republicans will use this to make the nation take a harder look at Obama.
    THEN – If those points about her continued to be made, the response would be, “oh, are you thinking this because she is a woman? a working woman with N kids? what are you picking on her for!” Which of course could be a rallying cry.
    Don’t know if it is the main reason but it definitely feels like a reason.
    My take anyway.

  • MariaMaria

    Sefster, I agree that she represents a potential trap if the discussion is about “experience.” But, if I am right about her, the issues are what will trip her up, and will cast McCain’s judgement as the issue. Questioning his judgement and turning his “maverick” against him are the sweetspots.
    Yesterday, Obama was already trying to turn Dems against responding to her nomination with the “experience” answer. Hopefully, everyone will be on message soon.

  • JHRussell

    Palin already passed the “Quayle test” with flying colors – Quayle faltered during his rushed up introduction to the media – it is where he was over exuberant, and then had the “deer in the headlights” look when he was questioned about his national guard service (or something like that)…
    Palin may get tripped up in the days and weeks to come, but based on her performance yesterday, she is no Dan Quayle…

  • Mgmax, le Corbeau

    I usually chuckle when people accuse me of getting “talking points” from O’Reilys and Savages I’ve never watched once, but if there was one guy I’d be a dittohead for, it’d be Mark Steyn. He has a great post at The Corner about why Palin is so devastatingly down to earth next to Spock Obama:
    First, Governor Palin is not merely, as Jay describes her, “all-American”, but hyper-American. What other country in the developed world produces beauty queens who hunt caribou and serve up a terrific moose stew? As an immigrant, I’m not saying I came to the United States purely to meet chicks like that, but it was certainly high on my list of priorities….
    http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ODNhOTk2YTU0NWY4ZjY5ODNhZTgyOWZkNjY5YjFlMmY=

  • Stephe96

    McCain has more experience than Biden, and Palin has more experience than Obama. I really don’t see a problem here.

  • VictorLazlo

    MGMAX: The article i s flat out idiotic and proves how unserious the right is about governing.
    And Spock Obama? Just can’t help yourself. I ask you what makes him so alien?
    I also ask again, independant of Obama-Biden, do you personally believe that Sarah Palin would make a great President?

  • VictorLazlo

    MARIAMARIA: You are dead on. THe Obama camp is wise to proceed as usual and let this decision blow up in McCain’s face.

  • MariaMaria

    I didn’t realize that there was a new category called “hyper-American”? Would the republicans, who seem to own the dictionary for the terms American and patriotic, please be so kind as to define it and what it means to the rest of us neer-do-well Americans?
    I am concerned about the fissure in the Republican party before the convention. After all, Mitt Romney was the 2nd runner up, he is a conservative, and he is an executive. Why wasn’t he given the nod? Shame on McCain for his blatant sexism!

  • Mgmax, le Corbeau

    “MGMAX: The article i s flat out idiotic and proves how unserious the right is about governing.”
    Thanks for playing. We have some lovely parting gifts for you.
    “And Spock Obama? Just can’t help yourself. I ask you what makes him so alien?”
    I dunno, twenty years in the world of universities and grant-receiving policy organizations and Hyde Park politics?
    “I also ask again, independant of Obama-Biden, do you personally believe that Sarah Palin would make a great President?”
    Do I know of anyone alive who would make a great president? Do you personally believe Obama will, and if so, based on what? Do you personally believe anyone thought at the time that Lincoln or Teddy Roosevelt or Franklin Roosevelt would? (The first was a hick, the latter dillettantes, that’s how most people saw them.) Is any of this more than a crapshoot in the dark?

  • MariaMaria

    Also, this is perhaps not the forum, but was anyone else insulted by Governor Palin referring to Senator Clinton as “Hillary.” Are they friends? This false familiarity is supposed to be folksy; it is, however, condescending.

  • Mgmax, le Corbeau

    “I didn’t realize that there was a new category called “hyper-American”? Would the republicans, who seem to own the dictionary for the terms American and patriotic, please be so kind as to define it and what it means to the rest of us neer-do-well Americans?”
    Reminds me of an old joke.
    Q. Did you know that liberals have no sense of humor?
    A. This is to inform you of a violation of Title XII, subsection C, of the Americans With Humor Impairments Right To a Full and Happy Existence Act of 1999….

  • Stephe96

    Mgmax,
    Great article by Steyn. It’s interesting how he points out that Obama, a community activist with absolutely no real experience at anything, has somehow managed to write two autobiographies!

  • MariaMaria

    MgMax,
    That would work better if that joke were funny!

  • George Prager

    Everytime a liberal writes something funny (which is often) on this board, Mgmax is not laughing. But when Mgmax brings some creep like Canadian Mark Steyn into the conversation, whom no one outside of a support group for paroled child rapists would think is funny and declare that what he wrote in one of his typical tone deaf columns is funny. “Liberals” fail to laugh, which makes him remark that Liberals don’t have a sense of humor. It’s a vicious cycle.

  • Ogami Itto

    I love when right wingnuts act as if Barack Obama just magically appeared, ex nihilo, without any accomplishments whatsover. Do a little research.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_obama
    Whether or not you like his policy proposals and positions on the issues is one thing, denying that he’s an intelligent, well-educated man who’s both thoughtful and reasonable is quite another thing.

  • pm123

    Smart?! A woman who advocates teaching Creationism alongside Evolution in public schools!? Sorry, but that’s not smart by any one’s measure. Talk about making America a laughingstock around the world…

  • Stephe96

    Ogami,
    If there is something in that Wikipedia entry that really impresses you and leads you to believe that Obama is ready to be president, then please post it, would you?
    By the way, I just thought of one of the dumbest lines in Obama’s speech the other night – the part where he said McCain won’t even follow Osama to the cave he lives in. Does Obama think McCain is the president right now? He’s a senator just like Barack! So what’s stopping YOU from finding bin Laden and bringing him back, dead or alive?

  • 62Lincoln

    It’s fascinating reading the criticism of Governor Palin. She’s been a chief executive for her state (Governor), and city (mayor). Obama’s chief executive experience? He was president of a college newpaper.
    If the criticism is that those offices held by Palin aren’t adequate, then how can Obama have any preparation whatsoever? He’s never been the chief exec of any governental unit.
    If that’s not enough, then examine the experience brought to the office of President by Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton. Both men’s prior office to that of President was – wait for it – governor of their respective states.

  • Vardemon

    Testing …

  • JHRussell

    “Whether or not you like his policy proposals and positions on the issues is one thing, denying that he’s an intelligent, well-educated man who’s both thoughtful and reasonable is quite another thing.”
    But where’s the beef?
    Translation: Where is the “experience” to be President? Can you name a less experienced presidential candidate in our lifetime? Or are you suggesting that achievement now trumps experience in choosing a President?

  • Howlingman

    “Can you name a less experienced presidential candidate in our lifetime?”
    George W. Bush?

  • deadre

    Scary, just really scary to see the potential for us moving more backwards in the way that Bush has done for the past 8 years. Hockey mom, sure, she’s elle woods for the middle class, right out of the movies. It’s a pathetic choice that could foist the republicans back into the whilte house and send us spiralling further downward. A funny but pathetic choice. And she won’t get any of Hillary’s supporters, that’s just a crazy idea….

  • Balthazar

    A BRILLIANT TRAP MAKES DEMS THE MALE CHAUVINISTS
    By Kirsten Powers
    SHE’S just a beauty queen.
    She’s another Dan Quayle.
    And ironically, the biggest criticism of Sarah Palin, John McCain’s veep choice, is she has no experience. Funny, coming from the Barack Obama camp.
    Following McCain’s announcement of Palin – the first female to be put on a GOP ticket for the White House, and only the second in US history – the Obama campaign skipped the niceties and blasted her as the “former mayor of a town of 9,000 with zero foreign policy experience.” She’s also a governor of Alaska (my home state), the first woman in that office and the youngest elected in state history. She has an 80-plus percent approval rating. She has turned the state upside down with her reformist zeal and has made enemies of the Republican establishment.
    And she can talk energy policy, one of the biggest issues facing this country.
    Is she a gamble? Definitely. But so is Barack Obama, who has himself dismissed experience as a prerequisite for leadership, despite his spot atop the Democratic ticket.
    At this point, Palin is so unknown, there’s no way to make a clear judgment about her. But listening to Obama supporters take to the airwaves to shriek with indignation about her lack of experience is just a little too rich. Where were they when Obama, two years into the Senate, announced his candidacy for president?
    One Obama supporter and political operative blogged, “In picking an unknown, untested half-a-term governor from Alaska . . . John McCain is following in a long line of reckless men who have rolled the dice for a beauty queen.”
    Do we really have to do this again?
    No sooner was Hillary Rodham Clinton out of the race, and a new woman is in the cross hairs.
    On CNN, during a discussion about whether it was appropriate for Palin to accept this job when she has a baby, Dana Bash pointed out it’s unlikely anyone would ask this of a male candidate.
    I can’t help wondering if this is a trap. The McCain camp watched and learned as Obama supporters offended Hillary supporters by their treatment of her. The McCainiacs had to know that this group is incapable of behaving, that Palin would bring out their worst instincts.
    One top Republican said to me: “Just wait until she is debating Joe Biden and he starts attacking or condescending to her. Hillary voters are going to say, ‘Oh yeah, I remember this.’ ”
    The McCain camp has already made clear it stands at the ready to scoop up these voters. Yesterday, Palin proudly acknowledged her historic selection, the candidacy of Hillary Rodham Clinton and the woman who paved the way for her, Geraldine Ferraro.
    Ferraro told me she’s excited for another woman to be on a presidential ticket. She sees Palin as a risky choice – but also dismissed the idea that she’s unqualified.
    And she rejected the idea that all the so-called “Hillary voters” would be repelled by Palin’s staunch anti-abortion views. These voters know the Senate will have a veto-proof Democratic majority, so that lessens the potency of that issue.
    Howard Wolfson, Hillary’s top strategist, said “it won’t help with most Hillary voters, but it could help with some.”
    “Some” of 18 million people is what the McCain camp is after.
    The other potential trap is luring the Obama campaign onto the “experience” field. The early conventional wisdom says McCain’s pick was boneheaded because it takes the experience issue off the table. But it seems that it has done the opposite: The importance of experience is the topic of the day.
    The more Democrats complain about this, the more Republicans can turn it on them and say, “If you are so concerned about the amount of experience of the vice president, what about the top of your ticket?”
    Obama’s argument thus far has been that experience isn’t what counts; it’s judgment. By attacking the Republican woman relentlessly on this issue, Democrats are undermining their own man.

  • Balthazar

    By WILLIAM KRISTOL
    A spectre is haunting the liberal elites of New York and Washington–the spectre of a young, attractive, unapologetic conservatism, rising out of the American countryside, free of the taint (fair or unfair) of the Bush administration and the recent Republican Congress, able to invigorate a McCain administration and to govern beyond it.
    That spectre has a name–Sarah Palin, the 44-year-old governor of Alaska chosen by John McCain on Friday to be his running mate. There she is: a working woman who’s a proud wife and mother; a traditionalist in important matters who’s broken through all kinds of barriers; a reformer who’s a Republican; a challenger of a corrupt good-old-boy establishment who’s a conservative; a successful woman whose life is unapologetically grounded in religious belief; a lady who’s a leader.
    So what we will see in the next days and weeks–what we have already seen in the hours after her nomination–is an effort by all the powers of the old liberalism, both in the Democratic party and the mainstream media, to exorcise this spectre. They will ridicule her and patronize her. They will distort her words and caricature her biography. They will appeal, sometimes explicitly, to anti-small town and anti-religious prejudice. All of this will be in the cause of trying to prevent the American people from arriving at their own judgment of Sarah Palin.
    That’s why Palin’s spectacular performance in her introduction in Dayton was so important. Her remarks were cogent and compelling. Her presentation of herself was shrewd and savvy. I heard from many who watched Palin–many of them not predisposed to support her–about how moved they were by her remarks, her composure, and her story. She will have a chance to shine again Wednesday night at the Republican convention.
    But before and after that, she’ll be swimming in political waters infested with sharks. Her nickname when she was the starting point guard on an Alaska high school championship basketball team was “Sarah Barracuda.” I suspect she’ll take care of herself better than many expect.
    But the McCain campaign can help. The choice of Palin was McCain’s own. Many of his staff expected, and favored, other more conventional candidates. The campaign may be tempted to overreact when one rash sentence or foolish comment by Palin from 10 or 15 years ago is dragged up by Democratic opposition research and magnified by a credulous and complicit media.
    The McCain campaign will have to keep its cool. It will have to provide facts and context, and to hit back where appropriate. But it cannot become obsessed with playing defense. It should allow Palin to deal with the charges directly and resist the temptation to try to shield her from the media. Palin is potentially a huge asset to McCain. He took the gamble–wisely, we think–of putting her on the ticket. McCain’s choice of Palin was McCain being McCain. Now his campaign will have to let Palin be Palin.
    There will be rocky moments. But they will fade if the McCain campaign lets Palin’s journey take its natural course over the next two months. Millions of Americans–mostly but not only women, mostly but not only Republicans and conservatives–seemed to get a sense of energy and enjoyment and pride, not just from her nomination, but especially from her smashing opening performance. Palin will be a compelling and mold-breaking example for lots of Americans who are told every day that to be even a bit conservative or Christian or old-fashioned is bad form. In this respect, Palin can become an inspirational figure and powerful symbol. The left senses this, which is why they want to discredit her quickly.
    key moment for Palin will be the vice presidential debate, to be held at Washington University in St. Louis on October 2. One liberal commentator–a former U.S. ambassador and not normally an unabashed vulgarian–licked his chops Friday afternoon: “To steal an old adage of former Secretary of State James Baker .  .  . putting Sarah Palin into a debate with Joe Biden is going to be like throwing Howdy Doody into a knife fight!”
    Charming. And if Palin holds her own against Biden, as she is fully capable of doing? McCain will then have succeeded in combining with his own huge advantage in experience and judgment, a politician of great promise in his vice presidential slot who will make Joe Biden look like a tiresome relic. McCain’s willingness to take a chance on Palin could turn what looked, after Obama’s impressive speech Thursday night in Denver, like a long two months for Republicans and conservatives, into a campaign of excitement and–dare we say it?–hope, which will culminate on November 4 in victory.

  • Stephe96

    By the way, RE: the ‘Quayle with a Pigtail’ headline. Think about who Palin will be facing in the debates. Now think about his head. Do you really wanna put hairstyles on the table for discussion?

  • buster

    As an Obama supporter I’m troubled by the serious arguments summoned by the other side against Biden, while all I’ve seen here (so far) against Palen from my fellow supporters are pathetic, superficial, sophomoric attempts to dismiss her that reek of desperation and defensiveness.
    What’s funny and sad is that despite my strong support for Obama, I’ll be called a traitor for criticizing these reactionary responses and for suggesting McCain just made a brilliant tactical move.

  • Mgmax, le Corbeau

    “Great article by Steyn. It’s interesting how he points out that Obama, a community activist with absolutely no real experience at anything, has somehow managed to write two autobiographies!”
    Which makes it more honest than his campaign film, which omits the most important person in his rise– his first literary agent, Jane Dystel.
    “That would work better if that joke were funny!”
    That’s not funny.
    “Everytime a liberal writes something funny (which is often) on this board, Mgmax is not laughing. But when Mgmax brings some creep like Canadian Mark Steyn into the conversation, whom no one outside of a support group for paroled child rapists would think is funny and declare that what he wrote in one of his typical tone deaf columns is funny. “Liberals” fail to laugh, which makes him remark that Liberals don’t have a sense of humor. It’s a vicious cycle.”
    Now THAT’S funny!
    “Do a little research.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_obama
    That’s hilarious. “What do you call your research? The Wikipediacrats!”

  • George Prager

    There is nothing worse than the cut and paste comments. So weak. I guess I should go get some Rosie O’Donnel blog posts and put them up. What? You don’t think Rosie O’Donnell is funny? Conservatives don’t have a sense of humor!!!

  • Mgmax, le Corbeau

    “What’s funny and sad is that despite my strong support for Obama, I’ll be called a traitor for criticizing these reactionary responses and for suggesting McCain just made a brilliant tactical move.”
    Traitor! Sarah Palin is a dumb hick, Hillary is a beast, and why can’t more women see how dreamy Obama is?

  • George Prager

    from andrewsullivan.com:
    A reader writes:
    I had been reluctant to acknowledge how flawed and dead the conservative movement has become; that’s over now. No more excuses, no more clinging to old visions of rational discourse and principled debate. I really have witnessed the death of conservatism and its replacement by a kind of toxic babbitry which would be merely laughable or cringeworthy if it were not also so extraordinarily dangerous.
    This election year has been a series of revelations and disillusionments–the crudely ugly tactics of Limbaugh and Hannity (and–worse–their embrace by Buckley’s heirs at National Review), the thinly-veiled racism and nativism of the campaign against Obama, the transparently cruel and God-hating ideology of movement Christians; but–even though dismayed by McCain’s bizarre campaign–I had retained some illusions as recently as this morning. I believed McCain to be at least a patriot, sincerely concerned with issues of national security.
    His nomination of Sarah Palin ended that illusion, too.
    No remotely serious politician–no honest patriot–would think of placing this individual a heartbeat away from the Oval Office, however admirable she may be, however lively her biography.
    Moreover, the elation on the right regarding Palin’s nomination made clear to me that none of them has ever been remotely serious about national security, either. On the contrary, as the left has insisted for years, for them it really has all been about political advantage, noise and bluster and ugliness with no core of principle, no genuine strategic commitment.
    The very same people who, only yesterday, insisted that Obama’s resume was too dangerously thin to entrust him with the oversight of our national security, today are celebrating Palin’s accession as a triumph for conservatism (evidently this is because she is hostile to both abortion and polar bears). Their hypocrisy is staggering–they truly do believe in nothing but their own entitlement to power by any means.
    And I’m very much afraid I must conclude this is as true of McCain as it is of his ghastly cheerleaders, the Limbaughs and the Hannitys. Nothing else could explain the elevation of a woman so singularly unqualified in every aspect save gender.

  • http://gameoverthinker.com MovieBob

    It’s a Hail Mary pass, but it’s also shrewd strategy. No one should expect it to sway most committed Obama supporters, but to dismiss it out of hand would be a bad idea. Public joking aside, if the Obama camp is smart they’re DEEP in strategy sessions right now. The only Democrats who should be kicking back and laughing right now are Bill and Hillary, delighted with the fact that their 60 days of covertly torpedoing the Obama campaign just got that much easier.
    Here’s a number that EVERYONE ignores about the last election and that Democrats should be very worried by: 55. That’s the percentage by which George Bush WON the female vote in 2004. Boomer women are getting older and (as often happens) getting more “conservative” as they do. They outnumber younger, “liberal”-leaning women significantly. Those of them who were voting for Hillary chiefly because they wanted to see a female president – and don’t kid yourselves, thats a BIG number – can be swayed by this, and many of them will. “Soccer moms” have been the most sought-after swing vote for over a decade now – and McCain just put ONE OF THEM on the ticket.
    Her “Redneck Princess” schtick will help with the base, probably… but the REAL impact will be in the debates because she effectively neuters Biden. The whole point of Biden was that his “attack dog” routine would offset the “Obama is kind of a pansy” factor – now he can’t use that in the veep debates. Modern political debates are all about surrogacy – people see candidates in terms of themselves or figures in their own life.
    That’s why it’s so hard to smack McCain around and still look good, because he reminds people of their grandpa so you look like a bully and even the slightest comeback from him looks like elderly Morgan Freeman knocking that guy’s tooth out in Million Dollar Baby. That’s why you get so much more leeway, from older white voters, when smacking Obama around – not necessarily because he’s black, but because he reminds them of smug “punk kids” who get promoted too early at work (often under the suspicion that the dread “A Words” played a role.) And that’s why Biden will now have to mediate himself – no one will like seeing him beat up on “Mom.”

  • Count Thread

    About Palin and her experience, I have one question:
    Does Barack Obama have the experience to take over, if – God forbid – something happens to Joe Biden?
    (Sorry, I plagiarized that, I’m sure Joe wouldn’t complain).

  • George Prager

    “Does Barack Obama have the experience to take over, if ‚Äì God forbid ‚Äì something happens to Joe Biden?”
    Report: Obama gave Petraeus Afghanistan advice
    http://www.bostonherald.com/news/national/politics/2008/view.bg?articleid=1116003

  • dangovich

    Excellent, George Prager.

  • VictorLazlo

    CONSERVATIVES, PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTION!!
    Independant of Obama, do you want to see Sarah Palin as President of the United States. Remember, this is INDEPENDANT of Obama.

  • dangovich

    I know I’m in the Bizarro world when people are quoting Bill Krystol and Mark Steyn two assholes who have been wrong about absolutely EVERYTHING.

  • VictorLazlo

    And did someone just post an article by BILL KRISTOL and expect to be taken seriously? THe man has been wrong on every major issue for 8 years.

  • BurmaShave

    Bill Kristol was Dan Quayle’s Chief of Staff. No wonder he’s excited.

  • Mgmax

    I usually chuckle when people accuse me of getting “talking points” from O’Reilys and Savages I’ve never watched once, but if there was one guy I’d be a dittohead for, it’d be Mark Steyn. He has a great post at The Corner about why Palin is so devastatingly down to earth next to Spock Obama:

    First, Governor Palin is not merely, as Jay describes her, “all-American”, but hyper-American. What other country in the developed world produces beauty queens who hunt caribou and serve up a terrific moose stew? As an immigrant, I’m not saying I came to the United States purely to meet chicks like that, but it was certainly high on my list of priorities….

    http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ODNhOTk2YTU0NWY4ZjY5ODNhZTgyOWZkNjY5YjFlMmY=

  • Balthazar

    Victor, I would have absolutely no problem with it.
    Lieberman would probably be her VP, because I suspect he’ll get Secretary of State.

  • MariaMaria

    Partisan bickering is so much fun!
    Unfortunately, the people who actually decide the election, the mythical independents, are living their lives, completely unconcerned and oblivious to all of us.

  • George Prager

    I’ve tuned in to MSNBC twice today. Both times the merits of Sarah Palin were being debated by strategist from both the Republican party and the Democratic party. Both times the “Republican strategist” was a black guy and not the same black guy both times but a different black guy each time! Amazing! And the second black guy had crossed eyes and was 100% gay!

  • Mgmax

    “MGMAX: The article i s flat out idiotic and proves how unserious the right is about governing.”

    Thanks for playing. We have some lovely parting gifts for you.

    “And Spock Obama? Just can’t help yourself. I ask you what makes him so alien?”

    I dunno, twenty years in the world of universities and grant-receiving policy organizations and Hyde Park politics?

    “I also ask again, independant of Obama-Biden, do you personally believe that Sarah Palin would make a great President?”

    Do I know of anyone alive who would make a great president? Do you personally believe Obama will, and if so, based on what? Do you personally believe anyone thought at the time that Lincoln or Teddy Roosevelt or Franklin Roosevelt would? (The first was a hick, the latter dillettantes, that’s how most people saw them.) Is any of this more than a crapshoot in the dark?

  • Mgmax

    “I didn’t realize that there was a new category called “hyper-American”? Would the republicans, who seem to own the dictionary for the terms American and patriotic, please be so kind as to define it and what it means to the rest of us neer-do-well Americans?”

    Reminds me of an old joke.

    Q. Did you know that liberals have no sense of humor?

    A. This is to inform you of a violation of Title XII, subsection C, of the Americans With Humor Impairments Right To a Full and Happy Existence Act of 1999….

  • Mgmax, le Corbeau

    Victor: Yes.
    Longer answer, do I think she’d be about as capable for the president as, say, the once-equally-obscure governors of Arkansas or Georgia, not to mention a stooge of the Pendergast machine in Kansas City elected to the senate, a rich bootlegger’s kid, or any of the utter nonentities slapped on the ticket in the 19th century who usually sank into history unnoticed (Lewis Cass, Hannibal Hamlin, Levi P. Morton) but occasionally found themselves in the job (Millard Fillmore, Chester Alan Arthur, Theodore Roosevelt)? Yes.
    Most of all, is she as well qualified as a trial lawyer who got lucky enough to win a senate seat in a strange year and immediately set himself to winning the presidency despite an utter lack of qualifications, depth, and, as it turned out, enough brains to use birth control? Because that’s the great statesman YOU guys were ready to put a heartbeat away from the presidency last time out. Is Sarah Palin as qualified for the presidency as Johnny Edwards, that’s the question that ought to be asked in return.

  • qwiggles

    I say this as a Canadian Democrat sympathizer: can the Democrats please stop using the “one heartbeat away” line? It’s as irritating a refrain as “Flip-flopper.” Surely there are alternate ways to frame the same point without busting out the heartbeat every sentence.

  • D.Z.

    Burma: “Yeah, because that line destroyed Dan Quayle and delivered the White House to Michael Dukakis. It will be doubly effective when used on a young woman.”
    Quayle had nothing to do with Dukakis losing and a lot to do with Bush I not winning a second term.
    qwig: “Young woman? She’s 44.”
    It’s like one of those circus tent photos. She looks much younger next to McCain.
    “I think she’s a very shrewd, calculated and effective choice, which is to say I think it’s a cynical, dangerous and condescending pick that could easily win it.”
    Assuming she actually understands or is aware of the issues, then sure.
    Sefster: “Such thoughts open the discussion of why is she unqualified. And their response is simply, “but what’s the difference between Sarah and Barack?” They are both attractive, well-spoken, and have had very little “time in the box,” especially with foreign affairs. But of course, the first thing all of us are thinking is “she doesn’t have the experience”. I truly think the Republicans will use this to make the nation take a harder look at Obama.”
    Well, they can play the old enough to die card back at them, and force her to respond in a way which would
    hurt her credibility next to BO.
    “THEN – If those points about her continued to be made, the response would be, “oh, are you thinking this because she is a woman? a working woman with N kids? what are you picking on her for!” Which of course could be a rallying cry.”
    Only until she says nothing useful for other women raising kids who are not making her money.
    Mgmax: “What other country in the developed world produces beauty queens who hunt caribou and serve up a terrific moose stew?”
    That’ll look good until she’s forced to confront the dreaded global warming issue.
    “I dunno, twenty years in the world of universities and grant-receiving policy organizations and Hyde Park politics?”
    As opposed to twenty years in the world of underground neo-con evangelist brain-washing ceremonies?
    “Do you personally believe Obama will, and if so, based on what? Do you personally believe anyone thought at the time that Lincoln or Teddy Roosevelt or Franklin Roosevelt would? (The first was a hick, the latter dillettantes, that’s how most people saw them.)”
    Well, I believe that Obama is a good mediator and can make progressive things happen as effectively as Lincoln or the Roosevelts. Palin has governed a semi-barren tundra, which is different from protecting and managing a densely populated city.
    “Q. Did you know that liberals have no sense of humor?”
    You sure about that? Are liberals the one who blacklisted Bill Maher or who swiftboated Al Franken?
    Stephe: “McCain has more experience than Biden, and Palin has more experience than Obama.”
    McCain has more entrenched experience, while Palin has more experience with shady people.
    “It’s interesting how he points out that Obama, a community activist with absolutely no real experience at anything, has somehow managed to write two autobiographies!”
    Wouldn’t that suggest that he actually has some experience?
    “If there is something in that Wikipedia entry that really impresses you and leads you to believe that Obama is ready to be president, then please post it, would you?”
    He doesn’t want to bomb Iran, for one thing.
    “Does Obama think McCain is the president right now? He’s a senator just like Barack! So what’s stopping YOU from finding bin Laden and bringing him back, dead or alive?”
    The war that the Senate Republicans are blocking from ending?
    Lincoln: “She’s been a chief executive for her state (Governor), and city (mayor). Obama’s chief executive experience? He was president of a college newpaper.”
    She’s managed a state and city out in the middle of nowhere, and it still has one of the worst economies in the country! http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/worklife/02/25/worst.job.states/index.html
    Obama ran a college newspaper, and managed to win Senate seat. Who’s actually accomplished something now?
    Russell: “Translation: Where is the “experience” to be President? Can you name a less experienced presidential candidate in our lifetime?”
    Bush.
    “Or are you suggesting that achievement now trumps experience in choosing a President?”
    Given that Bush had neither, yes.
    Balthazar: “She has turned the state upside down with her reformist zeal and has made enemies of the Republican establishment.”
    Except when she let Ted Stevens rip off the place for a bridge to nowhere…
    “On CNN, during a discussion about whether it was appropriate for Palin to accept this job when she has a baby, Dana Bash pointed out it’s unlikely anyone would ask this of a male candidate.”
    Has any male candidate run for office with a child that young and mentally disabled? And obviously, if you believe in biology, you assume that a baby needs a proper physical and emotional development only a mother can provide. But who cares about science?
    Also, it’s funny that they’re playing the gender card, when they previously ran on a platform of condemning single mothers.
    “The McCain camp watched and learned as Obama supporters offended Hillary supporters by their treatment of her. The McCainiacs had to know that this group is incapable of behaving, that Palin would bring out their worst instincts.”
    *Now* who’s being sexist?
    “One top Republican said to me: “Just wait until she is debating Joe Biden and he starts attacking or condescending to her. Hillary voters are going to say, ‘Oh yeah, I remember this.’ “‘
    No, they’ll remember that Hillary actually stood up to Obama, while they’re wondering why Palin can’t say anything useful against Biden.
    “Ferraro told me she’s excited for another woman to be on a presidential ticket. She sees Palin as a risky choice – but also dismissed the idea that she’s unqualified.
    And she rejected the idea that all the so-called “Hillary voters” would be repelled by Palin’s staunch anti-abortion views.”
    Yes, and we should trust what Ferraro thinks, since she lost one race and sank another one with her baited comments.
    “These voters know the Senate will have a veto-proof Democratic majority, so that lessens the potency of that issue.”
    Assuming Bush III doesn’t try to pull any fast ones, sure.
    “the spectre of a young, attractive, unapologetic conservatism,”
    Being unapologetic is not going to make her case.
    “a reformer who’s a Republican; a challenger of a corrupt good-old-boy establishment who’s a conservative;”
    Except with Ted Stevens.
    “They will appeal, sometimes explicitly, to anti-small town and anti-religious prejudice.”
    As opposed to those “Obama is a Muslim” memes…?
    “Her nickname when she was the starting point guard on an Alaska high school championship basketball team was “Sarah Barracuda.” I suspect she’ll take care of herself better than many expect.”
    Must be desperate to start pandering to the Myspace generation…
    buster: “while all I’ve seen here (so far) against Palen from my fellow supporters are pathetic, superficial, sophomoric attempts to dismiss her that reek of desperation and defensiveness.”
    I don’t consider you a traitor. I just think you’re taking her too seriously based on whatever the conservatives can spin.
    Bob: “Boomer women are getting older and (as often happens) getting more “conservative” as they do. They outnumber younger, “liberal”-leaning women significantly. Those of them who were voting for Hillary chiefly because they wanted to see a female president – and don’t kid yourselves, thats a BIG number – can be swayed by this, and many of them will. “Soccer moms” have been the most sought-after swing vote for over a decade now – and McCain just put ONE OF THEM on the ticket.”
    Unless this soccer mom can appeal to their economic problems, she’s dead weight.
    “but the REAL impact will be in the debates because she effectively neuters Biden. The whole point of Biden was that his “attack dog” routine would offset the “Obama is kind of a pansy” factor – now he can’t use that in the veep debates.”
    Why not? Obama being black didn’t stop Republicans and Hillary from attacking.
    “That’s why it’s so hard to smack McCain around and still look good, because he reminds people of their grandpa so you look like a bully and even the slightest comeback from him looks like elderly Morgan Freeman knocking that guy’s tooth out in Million Dollar Baby.”
    McCain doesn’t need to get smacked around, since
    his gaffes about his houses, MLK, and Keating will do it for him.
    “That’s why you get so much more leeway, from older white voters, when smacking Obama around – not necessarily because he’s black, but because he reminds them of smug “punk kids” who get promoted too early at work (often under the suspicion that the dread “A Words” played a role.)”
    Yes, Obama could never get anywhere without affirmative action, but Bush earned his way into Yale.
    Count Thread: “Does Barack Obama have the experience to take over, if ‚Äì God forbid ‚Äì something happens to Joe Biden?”
    Um, if Biden dies, the Speaker of the House replaces him; and I’d imagine Nancy Pelosi to be a little more competent than Palin. Nice try, though.

  • D.Z.

    Mgmax: “Longer answer, do I think she’d be about as capable for the president as, say, the once-equally-obscure governors of Arkansas or Georgia, not to mention a stooge of the Pendergast machine in Kansas City elected to the senate, a rich bootlegger’s kid, or any of the utter nonentities slapped on the ticket in the 19th century who usually sank into history unnoticed”
    Clinton and Carter dealt with people in rural communities, not communities in Siberia-lite. And Kennedy served in WW2, and Truman in WWI.

  • Richardson

    shut the fuck up, DZ.

  • JHRussell

    George Prager Author Profile Page says …
    “I’ve tuned in to MSNBC twice today. Both times the merits of Sarah Palin were being debated by strategist from both the Republican party and the Democratic party. Both times the “Republican strategist” was a black guy and not the same black guy both times but a different black guy each time! Amazing! And the second black guy had crossed eyes and was 100% gay!”
    Is the “100% gay” remark supposed to be funny?

  • George Prager

    Funny? No. Rationally logical.

  • JHRussell

    With Jeff’s coming purging of HE, I assume my time here is limited and this may very well be my final post on HE, but I do not understand liberals who make cavalier homophobic smears against some dude appearing on the tube…pretty pathetic, really disgusting…
    What I am learning on HE: Libs are afraid of honest debate, and they turn the discussion to ad hominem attacks like George Prager’s failed attempt at humor or irony or whatever he thinks he is accomplishing with a tasteless smear…

  • George Prager

    It wasn’t homophobic, it was an accurate observation. He was a big giant Queen. Let’s just say that he made Larry Craig look like Sam Elliott. How is that an ad hominem attack? If I saw Manny Ramirez being interviewed on television and I referred to him as a baseball player, would you characterize that as an ad hominem attack? I think not. I guess JHRussell thinks that calling someone gay is an ad hominem attack. I suppose that JHRussell thinks that there is something wrong with being gay. Now who is the homophobe? I do have a problem with CNN and MSNBC in that every time they have on a “Republican strategist” on to defend their party, the individual is a black person, and in the case of MSNBC this afternoon, the black person was also gay! If this guy was on ESPN talking about Hockey you would think that ESPN had gone totally insane!

  • christian

    George Prager, you’re a fucking idiot. Put up a photo of yourself sometime. So we can judge.

  • bmcintire

    One of my favorite airless observations by Rush Limbaugh can now come screaming back at him. He constantly harped that if Barack Obama were not black, none of us would have heard of him. In the exact same vein, if Sarah Palin were a dude, she’d remain a blip on the Arctic tundra.

  • George Prager

    “George Prager, you’re a fucking idiot. Put up a photo of yourself sometime. So we can judge.”
    It wasn’t just his appearance (that was about 50%), it was his behavior, his speaking voice, his diction. His attitude. It was the whole package. If you saw him you would agree with me, spoiled.

  • Mgmax

    “Great article by Steyn. It’s interesting how he points out that Obama, a community activist with absolutely no real experience at anything, has somehow managed to write two autobiographies!”

    Which makes it more honest than his campaign film, which omits the most important person in his rise– his first literary agent, Jane Dystel.

    “That would work better if that joke were funny!”

    That’s not funny.

    “Everytime a liberal writes something funny (which is often) on this board, Mgmax is not laughing. But when Mgmax brings some creep like Canadian Mark Steyn into the conversation, whom no one outside of a support group for paroled child rapists would think is funny and declare that what he wrote in one of his typical tone deaf columns is funny. “Liberals” fail to laugh, which makes him remark that Liberals don’t have a sense of humor. It’s a vicious cycle.”

    Now THAT’S funny!

    “Do a little research.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_obama

    That’s hilarious. “What do you call your research? The Wikipediacrats!”

  • Mgmax

    “What’s funny and sad is that despite my strong support for Obama, I’ll be called a traitor for criticizing these reactionary responses and for suggesting McCain just made a brilliant tactical move.”

    Traitor! Sarah Palin is a dumb hick, Hillary is a beast, and why can’t more women see how dreamy Obama is?

  • Griff

    I know I’m being a thread-killer by not continuing the insults and attacks, but let me suggest this comparison. “If we’re wondering about experience re: Palin (for VP, oddly enough) and Obama (for the big P), let’s ask about effectiveness. Who has been more effective in the government jobs they’ve held?”

  • Movie Watcher

    I think Obama can still win. But if he does not, the democrats will have the majority in the senate. So…
    McCain/Palin elected.
    McCain dies.
    Palin is the president…and Pelosi the VP!
    Can you imagine Fox News/Limbaugh/Coulter, etc. screaming over that? Think of the possiblilties!

  • JHRussell

    I agree with spoiled…
    ‘Nuff said.

  • Mgmax

    Victor: Yes.

    Longer answer, do I think she’d be about as capable for the president as, say, the once-equally-obscure governors of Arkansas or Georgia, not to mention a stooge of the Pendergast machine in Kansas City elected to the senate, a rich bootlegger’s kid, or any of the utter nonentities slapped on the ticket in the 19th century who usually sank into history unnoticed (Lewis Cass, Hannibal Hamlin, Levi P. Morton) but occasionally found themselves in the job (Millard Fillmore, Chester Alan Arthur, Theodore Roosevelt)? Yes.

    Most of all, is she as well qualified as a trial lawyer who got lucky enough to win a senate seat in a strange year and immediately set himself to winning the presidency despite an utter lack of qualifications, depth, and, as it turned out, enough brains to use birth control? Because that’s the great statesman YOU guys were ready to put a heartbeat away from the presidency last time out. Is Sarah Palin as qualified for the presidency as Johnny Edwards, that’s the question that ought to be asked in return.

  • arturobandini

    Test

  • arturobandini2

    Test 2

  • spoiled

    George Prager, you’re a fucking idiot. Put up a photo of yourself sometime. So we can judge.

  • Chapman Carruthers

    Prager,
    Nothing but admiration for you, as you fight the good fight in these blood-red, shark infested waters. Props to Wells for insisting on cleaning this place up. Nowadays, the ignorance is palpable, and bordering on suffocating.
    To all the moralistic ‘pubs on the board, please, please, please do me two simple favors: (1) stop writing “ad hominem” in response to ever logical response to one of your illogical arguments — the woe-is-me, persecution complexes are not very becoming, and I’m beginning to question the extent of your vocabularies. (2) Attacking a commenter for implying someone is homosexual will not make the viewing audience turn a blind eye to the latent sexism/racism that pervades so many of your posts. We still catch your drift, even if it’s not said outright.

  • Josh

    Biden the plagiarizer stealing lines???
    No way!!