comment #1

Mgmax says ...

Yeah, it's like he made three movies about Hitler's childhood.

The astonishing thing is that the one character missing from all these things is the single most important and beloved character, the one who made Star Wars work, Han Solo. Basically, Lucas made three Casablanca prequels which told you about the early lives of Ilsa, Victor, Captain Renault, Major Strasser, Ugarte, Yvonne the Second Front, and Sam-- but never mentioned Rick Blaine once.

comment #2

MDOC says ...

That is actaully a great point. I've been bitching about Star Wars online all week and I never even thought of reaching for the enough already with Anakin card

comment #3

Richardson says ...

"Remember when we all loved Luke and Han?"

I was going to say that Anakin could've been interesting if either of the actors who played him were good, but I can't advance that argument if he's going to say that people loved Luke.

comment #4

D.Z. says ...

"Do you know why people never quite latched on to Anakin like they did to Luke? Lets see... in the future he will: kill his wife, burn Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru to death, kill Ben Kenobi, freeze Han Solo, and sever his own son's hand."

That's kind of a weak argument, since everyone loves Darth Vader, but hates Anakin, which means they actually *want* him to be a heartless mass-murderer. No, the reason people hate Anakin is because they didn't want him to have a back-story; they really wanted to see his rise to power-or at least that second trilogy
Lucas claimed he was working on back in the 80s.

comment #5

Edward says ...

I thought the second trilogy was going to be events after Episodes IV - VI? But does anyone really care if it's a prequel or a sequel after the mess that were I - III?

Also, why is anyone surprised that this "cartoon" is bad? Not even the trailers make it look good. There are better looking animated shows on Saturday morning TV.

comment #6

Mgmax says ...

I don't want to see anybody's back story, ever again.

comment #7

Richardson says ...

The age old question... do people hate the backstory for Anakin Skywalker and Hannibal Lecter because they hate the idea of backstory for iconic villains? Or do they hate it because 'Hannibal Rising' and 'Red Dragon' and episodes 1-3 are so bad? Or are origin prequels inherently bad?

comment #8

Mr. Blood Vessel says ...

I was going to say that Anakin could've been interesting if either of the actors who played him were good, but I can't advance that argument if he's going to say that people loved Luke.

I have to agree.
I love the character of Anakin a bit more than Han though.
He's a great Shakespearean character.-
you feel sorry for him because of how he was taken so early from the only person who ever cared for him,his mom and then she gets killed while he is away. so he can't protect the one person who really loved him.
and these weirdos who make him into the next christ, won't leave him alone and just let him be happy with the one woman who loves him after he lost the only other person who cared for him, and then he pretty much sells his soul to the devil in order to get her back and then it's "whoops, sorry too late." and then he's screwed,barely alive and forever alone.

comment #9

Count Thread says ...

"Or are origin prequels inherently bad?"

Godfather II?

comment #10

BurmaShave says ...

If you are publicly admitting to liking Anakin more than Han Motherfuckin' Solo than you are so far up Lucas' ass I am christening you the Skywalker Suppository.

comment #11

tophertilson says ...

I hate the sheer idea of backstories anymore. Why does Hollywood think we want these things? Amongst the greater sins of Tim Burton's take on CHARLIE AND THE CHOCOLATE FACTORY was the screenwriter's insistence that he explain Willy Wonka. Why, dear God, why? By giving him a backstory they just reduced him to another troubled guy with daddy issues.

comment #12

D.Z. says ...

Richardson: Last time I checked, Red Dragon was received better than the SW prequels. But anyway, it's a remake, so the expectations were lower.

top: I could tolerate Charlie; it's when Burton tried to explain Sleepy Hollow that I was irritated.

comment #13

Aladdin Sane says ...

Anakin would have been a more interesting character had Lucas invested in a screenwriter who understood nuance and how real people talk - petulant or otherwise. I think the insistence on ramming the Clone Wars down our throats (and that of children too) is a lot more infuriating than Anakin - he's just a byproduct of it.

I am looking forward to The Force Unleashed video game coming out in September...and if Lucas remains relatively hands off for his live action show, well, it could be promising. Of course he'll probably move to Australia (if it does indeed film there), just so he can have control.

comment #14

Matthew Lucas says ...

I totally agree. You see none of Anakin's dark side in CLONE WARS, it's like he's trying to ignore it to make a hero for the kiddies, but I have no idea why he's so obsessed with staying in the world of the prequels. I think he's the only one that cares about this time period.

comment #15

Mr. Blood Vessel says ...

Aladdin Sane [TypeKey Profile Page] says ...

Anakin would have been a more interesting character had Lucas invested in a screenwriter who understood nuance and how real people talk - petulant or otherwise. I think the insistence on ramming the Clone Wars down our throats (and that of children too) is a lot more infuriating than Anakin - he's just a byproduct of it.

Why?
He wasn't interested in how real people talk.
He was interested in how these people talk.
remember- he was recreating cheesy space adventure serials.
why does everyone keep thinking he created these characters from thin air?

comment #16

dangovich says ...

It all boils down to two words: Hayden Christensen.

comment #17

Rev. Slappy says ...

That cash cow The Dark Knight is making all kinds of bank without the Joker's backstory. I don't know if these two things are directly related (I do think the movie is more effective because of it so you can argue it's making more money because of it's lack of Joker origin) but hopefully studio chiefs are taking notice.

comment #18

Aladdin Sane says ...

Mr. Blood Vessel - I never thought that he created these characters from thin air; at the end of the day they are archetypes. But even archetypes should be given some dignity.

Lucas has said before he's not interested in dialogue etc - even admits to his own shortcomings as a screenwriter. If you're building a house you get an electrician to install the wiring - you don't ask the guys laying the foundation to come back later. That being said, ROTS had a better script than ATOC or TPM. Maybe that's partly due to Stoppard's polish though.

comment #19

Mgmax says ...

The problem I think is that any backstory movie feels the need to show how a character became that way. Which almost inevitably leads to clunky pop-psychoanalysis of childhood traumas, so we can see how the nice young man became-- like any of us would under the same circumstances-- a face-eater.

This is terrible storytelling on every level. One, because most people do not become face-eaters for any reason, no matter how awful. (How many serial killers did the Holocaust produce out of its victims?) Two, because evil is robbed of all of its interest by that kind of examination of its youth. Darth Vader in Star Wars is a fearsome, mysterious creature dressed in a combination of bat suit and Chevy Camaro. Darth Vader in the prequels is a whiny kid. And finally, because it's simply mixing two kinds of story that don't go together. Comic book tales need icons, not believable human beings. If you create believable human beings in a realistic world, eventually it becomes hilarious that they're walking around in Halloween costumes-- like Batman in the interrogation scene in The Dark Knight.

Psychological shadings can add a lot to a fable or adventure tale-- see Gollum in Lord of the Rings-- but at some point psychological realism runs into the fact that if these really were real people, they wouldn't be doing ANY of this stuff, it's crazy.

comment #20

C-PhreekII says ...

What's needed here for fans of the original films is an intervention.

The first film was like trying some backwoods dope from a neighborhood pal for the first time and then EMPIRE was like getting to college and getting ahold of some primo, high grade hydroponic shit that blew our minds.

But we ain't never gone find that supplier again because our buddy (Lucas) who hooked us up the first time got jealous of all the attention the growers of that batch ( Brackett, Kasdan & Kershner) got that he ain't NEVER letting anyone of that caliber near the franchise again.

We've all been chasing the dragon of that high from EMPIRE for 28 years. Need to face facts, it will never be repeated. There's too much money and ego at stake now.

comment #21

Mgmax says ...

What I don't understand is why somebody really clever hasn't managed to make a first-class imitation Star Wars. Firefly maybe came closest, except it's aimed at emo twentysomethings instead of gee whiz 9-year-olds. If somebody made a totally fun pseudo-Star Wars now, no pretension, just giddy fun, it would make a mint and kick Lucas's dick in the dirt to boot.

comment #22

frankbooth says ...

"I don't want to see anybody's back story, ever again."

Amen. I say that as someone who liked Batman Begins and Casino Royale, but enough is enough.

Mr. Blood Vessel: keep fighting the good fight defending poor, beleaguered George Lucas. You have a right to like the prequels, and I have the right to tell you that you have terrible taste.

comment #23

Rich S. says ...

You know where they screwed up in the prequels? By focusing on the story of Anakin Skywalker. The prequels should have been about Obi-Wan Kenobi and his arrogance and failure to bring Anakin to the good side of the force after the Jedi Council warned him that Anakin was bad news. Then Episodes IV-VI would have been about the redemption of Obi-Wan through his teachings to Luke.

Anakin should have been a relatively minor character and teetering on the edge of a fall from the get. Posture him as the young, hot-headed Luke, who never really "gets it" like Luke eventually does. Have Obi-Wan carry on Qui-Gon's quest to bring Anakin to the dark side, but failing.

But no, Lucas decided that Anakin had to be a hero who became evil trying to save his wife. Bleh. Read some Greek tragedy sometime, dumbass. It's all right there in front of you.

Of course, once they introduced the concept of clones, Lucas could have always made Darth Vader the Emperor's Anakin Skywalker "fallback" who murders Anakin when he refuses to turn the darkside, and then takes Anakin's place. But George isn't that creative.

comment #24

D.Z. says ...

Slappy: But Two-Face does have a back-story, so...

comment #25

K. Bowen says ...

Sith, I think, is a pretty good film. The other prequels. aside from the final light saber duel in Phantom Menace, are poor.

comment #26

Mr. Blood Vessel says ...

Posted by Rev. Slappy at August 16, 2008 06:45 PM

Mr. Blood Vessel - I never thought that he created these characters from thin air; at the end of the day they are archetypes. But even archetypes should be given some dignity.

true.
However, it's clear he does not respect those archetypes and only ever saw them as a way to get his name out there.

comment #27

JCEFalconi says ...

Patton Oswalt said it best on his CD Werewolves and Lollipops, where he has an imaginary conversation with Lucas before Phantom Menace comes out:

" Lucas: You say you're a Star Wars fan, are you a fan of Darth Vader?

Oswalt: OH SHIT; I fucking LOVE Darth Vader dude, With the helmet and the cape and the sword, is he gonna be in the first movie?

Lucas: Yeah, in the first movie you get to see him as a little kid!

Oswalt: (silence) ... is he, like, the kid from the Omen all evil and shit?

Lucas: Nah, he's just like a little kid, then he gets taken away from his mom and he's all sad. (silence) you seem sad, do you want some Ice-cream?

Oswalt:... uh yeah, that would be nice.

Lucas: Well here's a bag of rock salt!

Oswalt: Uh, what?

Lucas: Well you see, if you mix this Rock Salt with cream and sugar and flavorant it beco-.

Oswalt: I DON'T GIVE A SHIT WHERE THE STUFF I LOVE COMES FROM, I JUST LOVE THE STUFF I LOVE!

Do you like Angelina Jolie, does she give you a big boner? Well, here's John Voight's ball-SACK! The pink glistening ball-sack she swam out of! Now jerk off to THAT, you Lucky so and so!"

comment #28

JCEFalconi says ...

By the way , the problem with the prequels is not that they're prequels, it's that it's about trade embargoes and diplomats and incomprehensible Jedi policies. BONE YOU MUST NOT!

Here's howit should've been.

First movie, teen Anakin is a slave with big dreams, during the Clone Wars (wjhy or how they started? WHO CARES!), Han Solo-ish Ben Kenobi finds him and trains him. Falls in love with Padme.

Second movie, in the midst of the clone wars, years of fighting the war makes him use more of the dark side of the force, he begins to become more hateful and spiteful of the Jedis that frown upon choking people with his mind and throwing a lightning or two. Palpatine advices him to do what he must and that War is Hell. The movie ends with the Emperor staging a coo and Anakin joining in as his secret apprentice. give it that Empire ending.

Third movie, Anakin is the cool young bad guy, fucking shit up for the good of the Empire, a chance for redemption and then he's turned into darth vader, then a scene of Vader killing a bunch of Jedis, get to see a young Darth Vader fight.

it would've been so simple to please the fans, nobody was saying in 99 or whenever Menace came out "gee, I hope there's more of that behinds the scenes political intrigue i loved so much in STAR WARS! Also I wonder if Yoda knew Chewbacca!"

comment #29

MathewM says ...

Back stories sound good in discussion but in reality they are best left to our imaginations.

Not to sound political but Anakin as he is written into the prequels is very much the product of an old fogey liberal. Lucas wanted to present someone that we are supposed to feel sympathy for because society failed him. Anakin by the end of Sith is clearly an epic criminal but he still has some good in him. He's redeemable. It's very similar to how a lot of people feel about our own criminals, that they can be rehabilitated and should be instead of facing the ultimate punishment. The problem is that Darth Vader is not a politically correct character and no one ever really wanted to see him presented as a guy who needed a good therapist in the prequels.

My point is, enough of the politically correct fantasy characters. Write them as archetypes who forward a good story and let the audience use their imaginations to fill in the gaps.

comment #30

actionman says ...

I like to imagine that the three recent Star Wars films were never made. All I need are the original three. Don't care about anything else Star Wars related.

comment #31

PerfectTommy says ...

The big question about Darth/Anakin that I thought needed to be answered in the sequels was how to reconcile Obi Wan saying to Luke "Darth killed your father" with Darth's "I am your father."

Like Rich S., I thought the clue was to be found in the clone wars, with a clone of Anakin that battles the real Anakin.

The way it is, I always felt that Obi was lying to Luke in a really horrible way, heartlessly setting up the Oedipal battle.

I actually hated Sith worse than the first two prequels because it was the permanent blow against any revival or hope for the series.

comment #32

calraigh says ...

I'm still in shock over Clone Wars. I can't quite believe it's existence. I actually forgot where I was or what I was doing or why I was in fact in a small, dark room 20 mins in. I don't know how to process such an aberration.

comment #33

Richardson says ...

"The way it is, I always felt that Obi was lying to Luke in a really horrible way, heartlessly setting up the Oedipal battle."

I always figured it was metaphorical. Anakin died when Darth Vader was born. Obi-Wan felt that Anakin was beyond saving, but Luke manages to save him.

comment #34

Doug says ...

After "Star Wars" when Lucas revealed he was thinking of doing three trilogies, I really had no interest in seeing the stories before "Star Wars," largely because I didn't think Darth Vader could or should be explained. I still don't connect anything that happened in the prequels with Anakin to the amazing villain Darth Vader we meet in "Star Wars."

comment #35

markj says ...

I always laugh when people slate the prequels but rank Jedi alongside Star Wars and Empire. Jedi is a terrible film, and Harrison Ford's performance in it is atrocious. David Fincher said it best: "Return of the Jedi sucked shit through a straw."

comment #36

MovieBob says ...

Backstories/origins are (or were) "in" at this moment in time because genre film has become fairly "fanboy" (despise the term, but it gets the point across) dominated - not that that's entirely a bad thing - and stories like this theoretically reward fanboyism i.e. obsession and hyper-analysis. They get "better" for you if you can smile privately because you 'caught' that offhand reference to some minutia that'll occur three movies down the line.

There's no innate reason why the prequels ought to have failed; the "fault" is entirely with Lucas. The idea of going back to see how Vader "happened" is (or was) appealing because it goes to the heart of the whole light-side/dark-side angle of the franchise. The execution has just been BAD, plain and simple. Lucas is an idea-man and a technician, not necessarily a finisher.

comment #37

thevisceral says ...

When's Lando gonna get a backstory trilogy?

comment #38

D.Z. says ...

visceral: Whenever Lucas can get Nick Cannon to play the young version of him.

comment #39

Mgmax says ...

There are two Star Wars movies, and the second one is overrated.

I think Lucas wanted to outdo his old master-- Coppola-- so he sought his own Godfather II, an epic of personal corruption. But he never understood that there's a difference between a space fantasy and the American immigrant experience. The result was sort of like making three movies explaining how Colonel Klink became a Nazi.

comment #40

MDOC says ...

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Currently there are 2 prequels planned from the succesful X-Men trilogy, groan.

comment #41

Jesse Perry says ...

"By the way , the problem with the prequels is not that they're prequels, it's that it's about trade embargoes and diplomats and incomprehensible Jedi policies. BONE YOU MUST NOT!"

Exactly . . . In between the moments of "character depth" that were shallower than a video game cutscene, we were treated to C-Span in Space.

comment #42

spumco says ...

I thought his ex wife, Marcia Lucas, had partial rights to the originals, so he would have to pay her if he did something from that era.

comment #43

shanana says ...

So, George Lucas killed your childhood? One would think PUBERTY would have done that, but then again, people are pretty immature nowadays.

comment #44

Richardson says ...

"Jedi is a terrible film, and Harrison Ford's performance in it is atrocious."

I'm not gonna defend 'Jedi' much, but the stuff at the beginning in Jabba's palace is pretty great, and it's the only movie where Mark Hammill is an interesting hero.

When it's bad, it's BAD, but it still feels connected with the first two in a way none of the prequels do, and, just riding on the fumes of the first two, with many of the same actors and more-iconic characters [or, in some cases, iconic uses of characters], it's better than the prequels.

comment #45

D.Z. says ...

Man, I can't believe Tropic Thunder bombed. How the hell does that sucker cost $100 million?!
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=tropicthunder.htm

comment #46

CaltheBeatmaker says ...

You all just put into words so many things I agree with about the Prequels. Reading these comments almost felt like therapy. Thanks.

comment #47

Josh says ...

lucas is a complete joke

comment #48

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comment #49

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comment #52

boboxi says ...

What happened to those characters? If you want to do a cartoon so bad, what about one about those guys? Nope. We get Anakin.

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