Turn The Other Cheek?
The Rich Raddon/Proposition 8 situation that MCN's David Poland revealed yesterday afternoon is a bugger, no question. I don't know what to finally think or say -- I'm truly torn and feeling badly for the guy, but at the same time amazed that someone in the liberal Hollywood tent would declare himself to be in opposition of gay-marriage rights. It's one of those "what?" situations.
Poland uncovered the fact that Raddon, director of FIND's LA Film Festival, came up on a "Yes On 8" donation list to the tune of $1500.
"Rich is a well-liked guy," he wrote. "He is not secretive about being a Mormon. And he could end up losing his job over this. FIND's position is that no one can be fired from a job over their religious beliefs, so Rich is still employed.
"And I must say, positions amongst FIND insiders are widely varied. The phrase 'witch hunt' has been used...as has 'I can't see ever sitting down at a meeting table with him again.'"
Raddon is well liked and well respected. I've known and admired him for years. He cares about independent film, is very smart and politically adept (except for this mind-bending dip in the road), and has performed energetically and enthusiastically as the director of the L.A. Film Festival. But the fundamental political rule in every land and culture is "when in Rome, do as the Romans do" so what the hell? On a political-smarts basis alone, what Raddon did was extremely unwise.
Is there anyone who disputes that the now-voted-upon-and-passed Proposition 8, which denies the right of gay people in California to marry, is an expression of bigotry? I'm not aware of there being any basis for ambiguity about where Prop Hate is coming from. Ugly-spirited Mormons, Orange County righties and bigots of all stripes supported it. There are, I suppose, political causes more repugnant than supporting Proposition 8, but what would they be exactly?
(l. to r.) Raddon, Film Independent's Dawn Hudson, actor Don Cheadle, Film Independent's Rachel Rosen
There's a way to make this all go away. Raddon, and I say this as a friend, needs to put out a statement clarifying his views on gay marriage -- why exactly does he support the Mormon view on this measure? -- and fully explain the basis of his (presumably) religious objections to same. Nobody wants to see him gone, but his financial support of Proposition 8 has put his neck in the wringer.
Am I saying that everyone in the Hollywood community has to be pro-gay marriage? No -- I'm saying that because many strongly disagree with and are appalled at Raddon's support for Prop Hate, he's created a problem for himself and needs to do what he can do fix it.
Others in the liberal entertainment community have criticized Proposition 8, including, believe it or not, Elton John. A recent USA Today story quotes John as having said in 2005 that he and partner David Furnish are "not married. Let's get that right. We have a civil partnership. What is wrong with Proposition 8 is that they went for marriage. Marriage is going to put a lot of people off, the word marriage. I don't want to be married. I'm very happy with a civil partnership. If gay people want to get married, or get together, they should have a civil partnership. The word 'marriage,' I think, puts a lot of people off."
A connected industry friend was outraged this morning when told about Poland's statement that Raddon "could end up losing his job over this." He said, "This is McCarthyism. .I could not be more opposed to Yes on 8, but I am totally opposed to any sort of witch hunt. It's pure and simple McCarthyism. I am not anti-gay. I am liberal enough and open enough to accept all sorts of views, to agree to disagree. This is a free country the last time I checked.
"The people who are behind Prop 8 probably are bigots. I find most of their views reprehensible. I find the whole Mormon business...the fact that Mormon culture condones multiple marriages and then turns around and condemns gay marriage. Look in your own house first. I think Rich is like Sherri Shepherd who said on The View that she had serious religious-based reservations about Proposition 8.
"If Raddon has said I support the American Nazi Party or the Ku Klux Klan, I would say get out of my life. Because we have to have standards that respect human life and basic morality. Peronsally I wouldn't want to have anything to do with them. But that's not this . It's ridiculous to associate these hate groups with Proposition 8. People who do so need to get a life."
Posted by Jeffrey Wells on November 14, 2008 at 8:43 AM
comment #1
D.Z.
says ...
"Raddon is well liked and well respected....He cares about independent film,"
What about Brokeback Mountain and Milk?
"A connected industry friend was outraged this morning when told about Poland's statement that Raddon "could end up losing his job over this." He said, "This is McCarthyism. .I could not be more opposed to Yes on 8, but I am totally opposed to any sort of witch hunt. It's pure and simple McCarthyism. I am not anti-gay."
But it's not McCarthyism to demonize the relationship between two consenting adults?
""If Raddon has said I support the American Nazi Party or the Ku Klux Klan, I would say get out of my life. Because we have to have standards that respect human life and basic morality. Peronsally I wouldn't want to have anything to do with them. But that's not this "
If it's not this, then why are the pro-Prop 8 supporters using the same arguments of "purity" and "a threat to society" which the hate groups used against interracial marriage?
Posted by D.Z.
at November 14, 2008 11:23 AM
comment #2
Devin Faraci
says ...
It's not McCarthyism. If Raddon gave money to a blatantly racist group nobody would think twice about him losing his job.
Posted by Devin Faraci
at November 14, 2008 11:24 AM
comment #3
Sabina E
says ...
I agree with Devin...
look, maybe you like this guy and he might be nice, but it looks like you really never knew him that well. People aren't what they seem to be.
fuck him for donating money to such a homophobic cause.
Posted by Sabina E
at November 14, 2008 11:34 AM
comment #4
Marcello
says ...
Funny, I would have a harder time forgiving someone who gave money to John McCain (that would make a person wrong on EVERY issue, not just one).
There's nothing to be "torn" about here. It's reprehensible to go after anyone's job for supporting what has proven to be a very mainstream belief.
Posted by Marcello
at November 14, 2008 11:35 AM
comment #5
George Prager
says ...
Supporting Proposition 8 and giving $1500 to the cause are two different things. It isn't like the church was strong-arming its members to give money. Mormon Steve Young, the former 49er, put up a sign on his lawn saying "Vote No." Is he going to be excommunicated? $1500 is a lot of money. Raddon is a jerkoff.
Posted by George Prager
at November 14, 2008 11:39 AM
comment #6
Joshua Mooney
says ...
Didn't Raddon, as a Mormon, HAVE to support Prop. 8? Isn't he just doing what his cult--er, church-- tells him to do? So why is anyone surprised? This isn't a Catholic putting a rubber on his dick. These Mormons are fucking serious. I assume I'll meet them all again, in Hell. But whatever.
Posted by Joshua Mooney
at November 14, 2008 11:52 AM
comment #7
Monument
says ...
I always find it interesting that "tolerant" people are generally more intolerant than the people they rail against.
Posted by Monument
at November 14, 2008 12:01 PM
comment #8
corey3rd
says ...
$1,500 to pay no attention to the LA Film festival.
I don't care if you are for or against Prop 8. But when you give $1,500 to push lies about what this vote means, then you deserve to be completely shunned. Did Raddon pay $1,500 to have the lie spread that ministers that refuse to marry gay couples will be thrown in to jail? Does Raddon feel the world has gone to hell because Sulu now has a man in his life that can visit him in an emergency room?
He's dead to me.
Posted by corey3rd
at November 14, 2008 12:02 PM
comment #9
arteye
says ...
"Raddon is well liked and well respected....He cares about independent film,"
And I'm sure Anita Bryant is a lovely person and sold a lot of orange juice in her day.
Posted by arteye
at November 14, 2008 12:05 PM
comment #10
George Prager
says ...
It's not that interesting, Monument. Unless you're a not-too-bright sophomore.
Posted by George Prager
at November 14, 2008 12:06 PM
comment #11
George Prager
says ...
Charles Manson was a pretty good singer/songwriter.
Posted by George Prager
at November 14, 2008 12:08 PM
comment #12
arch451
says ...
I agree that the guy is just following his religion and he would be a major hypocrite if he did not define marriage the way his religion does. He is entitled to that. The criticism and scrutiny should be aimed at the Mormon church.
Posted by arch451
at November 14, 2008 12:28 PM
comment #13
Celebrity Werewolf Hunter
says ...
I have a couple friends who were ardent supporters of Prop 8 and truthfully I have a lot of difficulty being their friend since the proposition passed and then looking my gay friends in the eye. This is a rather large issue and while I don't think its right to fire the man over this, as a creative person I wouldn't really want to work with him either.
I have a feeling this issue is only going to get bigger and bigger now that the gay community is really digging in their heels and taking a stand. A good deal of the Evangelical community in addition to the Mormons see this as a direct commandment from their God.
Posted by Celebrity Werewolf Hunter
at November 14, 2008 12:34 PM
comment #14
TS
says ...
Yeah, it's ironic that "tolerant" people are so intolerant of having their civil liberties stripped away.
Posted by TS
at November 14, 2008 12:41 PM
comment #15
D.Z.
says ...
Marcello: "It's reprehensible to go after anyone's job for supporting what has proven to be a very mainstream belief."
Unless you're a President who likes to purge anyone against the war or who recognizes global warming.
George: "Supporting Proposition 8 and giving $1500 to the cause are two different things. It isn't like the church was strong-arming its members to give money."
No, they're just threatening to expose anti-prop 8 businesses and ex-communicate members. http://crooksandliars.com/julia-rosen/mormons-and-prop-8-lies-and-blackmail
http://qsaltlake.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=808&Itemid=35
Monument: "I always find it interesting that "tolerant" people are generally more intolerant than the people they rail against."
Did the Mormons show tolerance in their policies toward black people?
Posted by D.Z.
at November 14, 2008 12:43 PM
comment #16
D.Z.
says ...
recognizes=acknowledges the existence of
Posted by D.Z.
at November 14, 2008 12:45 PM
comment #17
Devin Faraci
says ...
Monument, that line of reasoning is so moronic. You think 'tolerant' people should be tolerant of others losing their rights? I really wonder how stupid some people on the right are.
Posted by Devin Faraci
at November 14, 2008 12:46 PM
comment #18
Monument
says ...
Look, I'm not saying that you can't have a legitimate beef with religious folks, but the hypocrisy is hilarious. Sure blue-staters are "tolerant," provided that you don't have a differing opinion. For all of their bloviations against the religious right, blue-staters are just as religious in their beliefs and intolerant as the people they mock.
Posted by Monument
at November 14, 2008 12:50 PM
comment #19
George Prager
says ...
This Onion story says it all:
ACLU Defends Nazis' Right To Burn Down ACLU Headquarters
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/39182
Posted by George Prager
at November 14, 2008 12:51 PM
comment #20
corey3rd
says ...
Mitt Romney cried when he heard that Blacks were now allowed into Mormon Heaven.
I'm more intolerant of douchebags.
Posted by corey3rd
at November 14, 2008 12:53 PM
comment #21
George Prager
says ...
If gay people really were as inclusive as they say they are they would have sex with members of the opposite sex. The fact that they don't just shows you how intolerant they are.
Posted by George Prager
at November 14, 2008 12:55 PM
comment #22
corey3rd
says ...
so those saying we should tolerate the Mormons endorse their systematic "converting" of all the Jews that were killed in the Holocaust? Would you tolerate a religion that converts the dead in your family?
Once Mormons got rid of Poly marriages, they lost their reason to exist.
Posted by corey3rd
at November 14, 2008 12:56 PM
comment #23
MikeSchaeferSF
says ...
There's also a guy in Calif -- the artistic director of the California Musical Theater! Sheesh, do ya think he knows any gay people personally? -- who just resgined after it was revealed he donated $1000 to Yes on 8.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/13/theater/13thea.html?ref=theater
Posted by MikeSchaeferSF
at November 14, 2008 1:00 PM
comment #24
Monument
says ...
"I really wonder how stupid some people on the right are."
Case in point Devin, thanks. I've lived in California my whole life and voted straight Democratic, great assumption. I'm just making an observation that I've found to be generally true, but it differed from yours so I must be stupid and a Republican.
Posted by Monument
at November 14, 2008 1:01 PM
comment #25
DarthCorleone
says ...
he would be a major hypocrite if he did not define marriage the way his religion does. He is entitled to that.
Yes, he is entitled to that. What he (or anyone else) is not entitled to in this country is to define what he acknowledges is his particular religious institution's concept of "marriage" for everyone else.
Anyway, I wouldn't fire him, but I too am having an extremely hard time with "yes" supporters. It upsets and bewilders me that Elton John can be so blase about it. Is his "civil partnership" from the UK? If so, is he aware that in America civil unions are not equal and not universally available?
How can you argue with Keith Olbermann's statement on this and simultaneously be an empathetic human being? I really just don't get it.
Posted by DarthCorleone
at November 14, 2008 1:02 PM
comment #26
Pelham123
says ...
I'm with Celebrity Werewolf Hunter (great name) on this. My sense is this issue is igniting around the country & there's no way to put it out until the aggrieved parties are satisfied. There's a 50-City protest planned around the nation for either today or this weekend (I missed the date on radio.) Prop. 8 may have started the 21st Century's "Stonewall" riots.
Posted by Pelham123
at November 14, 2008 1:08 PM
comment #27
D.Z.
says ...
George: "If gay people really were as inclusive as they say they are they would have sex with members of the opposite sex. The fact that they don't just shows you how intolerant they are."
Some of them do have sex with members of the opposite sex, actually...
Monument: "I've lived in California my whole life and voted straight Democratic, great assumption. "
What about when it came down to Reagan, Arnie, Prop. 187, and Prop. 209?
Posted by D.Z.
at November 14, 2008 1:17 PM
comment #28
/3rtfu11
says ...
Monument says
"I always find it interesting that "tolerant" people are generally more intolerant than the people they rail against."
You can't build a utopia with people that disagree with you.
Posted by /3rtfu11
at November 14, 2008 1:21 PM
comment #29
buckzollo
says ...
George Prager: that is hands down the best post I have ever read. It is a if I can turn off the internet now without a care. Re: Rich, good lucky buddy; there is tons of Mormon Film Production...see you in Utah!
Posted by buckzollo
at November 14, 2008 1:26 PM
comment #30
D.Z.
says ...
3rtu:
"You can't build a utopia with people that disagree with you."
That's why Jews and Muslims don't factor into the equation of the "Left Behind" crowd.
Posted by D.Z.
at November 14, 2008 1:29 PM
comment #31
62Lincoln
says ...
Wow, Elton John really sounds like a hate filled homphobe.
Posted by 62Lincoln
at November 14, 2008 1:36 PM
comment #32
62Lincoln
says ...
homphobe = homophobe
Posted by 62Lincoln
at November 14, 2008 1:36 PM
comment #33
Joshua Mooney
says ...
buckzollo: that is hands down the best response to a George Prager response I have ever read. I will continue parsing "It is a if I can turn off the internet now without a care" until I can turn off the internet now without a care!
buckzollo says ...
George Prager: that is hands down the best post I have ever read. It is a if I can turn off the internet now without a care.
Posted by Joshua Mooney
at November 14, 2008 1:40 PM
comment #34
Joshua Mooney
says ...
buckzollo: that is hands down the best resposne to a George Prager post I have ever read. I will continue to parse "It is a if I can turn off the internet now without a care" until it is a if I can turn off the interent now without a care. Soon, I hope! Or not soon enough, even?
P.S.: Jews and Muslims have their own destinies, D.Z. Why waste words on them, eh?
buckzollo says ...
George Prager: that is hands down the best post I have ever read. It is a if I can turn off the internet now without a care.
Posted by Joshua Mooney
at November 14, 2008 1:49 PM
comment #35
George Prager
says ...
"Some of them do have sex with members of the opposite sex, actually..."
Which just goes to show you how hypocritical they are. How can you call yourself gay if you have sex with members of the opposite sex? I guess gay people think they can have special rights by having sex with members of the opposite sex while having sex with members of the same sex. What would happen if straight people started having sex with members of the same sex and called themselves gay? I guess that would make them homophobes.
Posted by George Prager
at November 14, 2008 1:53 PM
comment #36
storymark
says ...
Monument, there seems to be a big distinction your are ignoring. We're not intollerant of those who have a different opinion - but this is not just a case of differing opinions. this was a bunch of homophobes taking away a right which these people were already in possesion of - just because they don't like what they were doing.
And to those people, yeah, they can fuck right off. Holding views is one thing. But as soon as you start forcing others to change their lives, just to coincide with your views, that's when good people have to stand up and stick it to the idiots.
Posted by storymark
at November 14, 2008 2:51 PM
comment #37
D.Z.
says ...
62Lincoln: "Wow, Elton John really sounds like a hate filled homphobe."
I think he's just from a different generation where it was enough for him to just be openly gay in an entertainment industry where most celebrities were still closeted.
Josh: "P.S.: Jews and Muslims have their own destinies, D.Z. Why waste words on them, eh?"
I'm just making a point that the other side's definition of utopia goes beyond purging people with whom they merely disagree. At least in the latter case, you can do so through non-violence and without brain-washing.
Posted by D.Z.
at November 14, 2008 4:02 PM
comment #38
Deathtongue_Groupie
says ...
This is turning into a huge watershed and there's gonna be a lot of bodies.
It turns out that the co-owner of one of THE Hollywood waterholes, El Coyote Restaurant on Beverly Blvd, gave $100 to the Yes on 8 crowd. There were protests and when the ramifications of what she did hit home, she called a hasty press conference that she pretty much broke down during when she realized she might have just destroyed her business.
You can watch the sad train wreck:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVYEyV71gSI
Posted by Deathtongue_Groupie
at November 14, 2008 4:10 PM
comment #39
Vitesse
says ...
Jeez, I could only watch about two minutes of that. I feel bad, but then again, there are ways in which one can disagree with certain things without lobbying or giving money to have those things outright banned. Especially coming from the Mormon church, not exactly clean when it comes to matters of outright discrimination.
What I don't get, and what I'll never get: isn't eternal hellfire or whatever bad enough? If the Mormons think gay marriage is counter to God's law, then isn't God's theoretical judgment punishment enough? Why mess around with real world laws so much if they feel they've got a good bead on how the afterlife works?
Anyway, this is all sort of sad but perhaps inevitable. And if you can't stand the heat ...
Posted by Vitesse
at November 14, 2008 5:18 PM
comment #40
Celebrity Werewolf Hunter
says ...
Vitesse-
"What I don't get, and what I'll never get: isn't eternal hellfire or whatever bad enough? If the Mormons think gay marriage is counter to God's law, then isn't God's theoretical judgment punishment enough? Why mess around with real world laws so much if they feel they've got a good bead on how the afterlife works?"
I think that sort of sums up my feelings on all religions who use their doctrine to try and discriminate others. Nice way of putting it.
Posted by Celebrity Werewolf Hunter
at November 14, 2008 7:29 PM