Agree to Disagree

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"My real problem with Whatever Works was the older-man-younger-woman theme, which has never been one of my favorite Woody motifs, even before it gained a real-life parallel. (Manhattan is a great film, but the Mariel Hemingway relationship is creepy and condescending, and I don't just say that as a father of an almost-teenage daughter.) Going back to Alvy and Annie, the romances in Allen's films often have a teacher-pupil quality, too, and in Whatever Works we get that as well as the December-May thing.

"But here, Allen doesn't even bother to make the relationship between Larry David's and Evan Rachel Woods's characters credible. Aside from her being hot, the attraction makes no sense: She's a moron and he's hateful." -- Vanity Fair critic Bruce Handy in a pro-con debate with Frank DiGiacomo, posted this morning.

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Posted by Jeffrey Wells on April 23, 2009 at 6:57 AM

comment #1

rr3333 says ...

The script was in Woody's drawer for 30 years. That in itself should be a bit of a red flag.

Posted by rr3333 at April 23, 2009 7:37 AM

comment #2

Sabina E says ...

even young moronic females can date and marry hateful, older men. It happens all the time.

Posted by Sabina E at April 23, 2009 7:40 AM

comment #3

corey3rd says ...

In Manhattan Woody was 42. Muriel was 17. A 25 year difference kinda creepy, but the guy was working in TV at the time and taking her to great places to eat.

Whatever Works has Larry David at 62 hooking up with a 22 year old - 40 years apart.

What's next for the Woody in pushing the Old Man - Young girl envelope? Abe Vigoda hooking up with Angelina Jolie's latest fetus?

Posted by corey3rd at April 23, 2009 7:47 AM

comment #4

JChasse says ...

You know what was my problem with "The Godfather"? It's about criminals.

Posted by JChasse at April 23, 2009 8:16 AM

comment #5

jamesO.incandenza says ...

Would anybody else be fine with never, ever seeing/hearing Abe Vigoda's name used as a punch line again, even if it meant never seeing/hearing Abe Vigoda's name again?

Posted by jamesO.incandenza at April 23, 2009 8:54 AM

comment #6

rr3333 says ...

Sadly, 'Fish : The Motion Picture' was just put in turnaround.

Posted by rr3333 at April 23, 2009 9:11 AM

comment #7

George Prager says ...

I'd rather get a blowjob from Abe Vigoda than see/hear Abe Vigoda's name used as a punch line again.

Posted by George Prager at April 23, 2009 9:13 AM

comment #8

Travis Crabtree says ...

What're you talking about, Prager? I thought the Abe Vigoda joke was hilarious.

- Yours Truly,
Using Bea Arthur's Name As a Punchline

Posted by Travis Crabtree at April 23, 2009 9:42 AM

comment #9

Gordie Lachance says ...

Bruce Handy didn't exactly put up much of an argument against Allen's film. And his revelation that smart characters don't lend themselves to comedy is very telling. I know he loves that Seth Rogen.

Still, a mediocre Woody Allen film is better than 90% of Hollywood's output.

Posted by Gordie Lachance at April 23, 2009 10:45 AM

comment #10

TVMCCA says ...

Here's Ronnie Scheib of DAILY VARIETY with his review: http://www.variety.com/review/VE1117940107.html?categoryid=31&cs=1

Posted by TVMCCA at April 23, 2009 12:36 PM

comment #11

Phatang! says ...

rr3333: if the script is 30 years old, then he wrote this around the same time he wrote Zelig! It should be vintage Woody!

(or, possibly, there's a reason he hasn't made it until now...)

Posted by Phatang! at April 23, 2009 12:37 PM

comment #12

TVMCCA says ...

Phatang! wrote:
rr3333: if the script is 30 years old, then he wrote this around the same time he wrote Zelig! It should be vintage Woody!

(or, possibly, there's a reason he hasn't made it until now...)

In the VARIETY review, it indicates that Woody wrote the original script with Zero Mostel in mind for the lead.

Posted by TVMCCA at April 23, 2009 12:43 PM

comment #13

TM says ...

Wells, there WAS a real-life parallel when Woody made MANHATTAN. It was based on his life and his relationship with Stacy Nelkin -- which began when she was a 17-year-old student at Stuyvesant High School in Manhattan. My grad school roommate was in her class at Stuyvesant and he confirmed the relationship. Woody has never publicly commented on it, although it has been written up in biographies.

Posted by TM at April 23, 2009 4:16 PM

comment #14

frankbooth says ...

If you could send a terminator robot back in time to kill Woody and save his reputation, what year would you pick?

Some might say 1994, 'cause Bullets Over Broadway was pleasant enough -- but you could make a pretty good case for 1987.

Now, if you could somehow terminate individual movies...

Posted by frankbooth at April 23, 2009 5:21 PM

comment #15

corey3rd says ...

all my Charles Lane jokes are worthless now that he's dead - thus you gotta go with Abe Vigoda. The man needs the love everyday.

Plus Abe looks good on wheat toast.

Posted by corey3rd at April 23, 2009 5:44 PM

comment #16

Steven kaye says ...

I agree, frankbooth! With his last 4 films grossing about $235 million worldwide (recouping their total cost of $60 million somewhat handily), an Oscar for VCB, and Nicole Kidman, Naomi Watts, Anthony Hopkins and Antonio Banderas signed up for his latest project, he's obviously an artistic pariah.

Posted by Steven kaye at April 23, 2009 7:25 PM

comment #17

Gordon27 says ...

"In Manhattan Woody was 42. Muriel was 17. A 25 year difference kinda creepy, but the guy was working in TV at the time and taking her to great places to eat."

I feel like 'Manhattan' is more open about how creepy the relationship is, though. He seems like he knows it's wrong, but he does it anyway. After that, any movie he makes with that as a subplot, it seems to be just accepted as entirely natural and normal.

Posted by Gordon27 at April 23, 2009 8:50 PM

comment #18

Gordon27 says ...

"Some might say 1994, 'cause Bullets Over Broadway was pleasant enough -- but you could make a pretty good case for 1987."

I love 'Radio Days' as much as anybody, but I can't believe anybody wouldn't want 'Crimes and Misdemeanors' to exist.

Although, when you realize that the niece character is the surrogate for Soon-Yi, that movie becomes a little creepier too.

Posted by Gordon27 at April 23, 2009 8:51 PM

comment #19

TVMCCA says ...

TM wrote:
Wells, there WAS a real-life parallel when Woody made MANHATTAN. It was based on his life and his relationship with Stacy Nelkin -- which began when she was a 17-year-old student at Stuyvesant High School in Manhattan. My grad school roommate was in her class at Stuyvesant and he confirmed the relationship. Woody has never publicly commented on it, although it has been written up in biographies.

If this is the same Stacey Nelkin who went on to an acting career, then MANHATTAN might make a good DVD double bill with 1980's SERIAL, where Ms. Nellkin plays a teenager who has a fling with Martin Mull.

Posted by TVMCCA at April 24, 2009 12:12 AM

comment #20

MAGGA says ...

Woody has made more very good movies this decade than almost any other director. No need to save anyone's reputation, the guy's a God. Melinda and Melinda, Match Point, Cassandra's Dream, Vicky Christina Barcelona. The nineties have several great movies from him as well.

Posted by MAGGA at April 24, 2009 4:45 AM

comment #21