comment #1

Terry McCarty says ...

Two questions:
1. What did Jett think of the film?
2. Any major differences between the Cannes cut and the release version?

comment #2

Travis Crabtree says ...

Brilliantly written, Jeffrey.

What little motivation I had to see this film has just dissolved.

Maybe I'm getting soft and fuzzy, but I was put off by the "joy of violence" in the trailer when first I saw it.

So, some poor shlub who works in a pastry shop in Essen who hasn't a political bone in his body gets conscripted into the Wehrmacht as a western front foot soldier only to then get his face slowly sawed off with a rusty blade because he was unlucky enough to be born in a country that was dumb and desperate enough to allow a monster like Hitler into power. Sounds like a laff-riot!

Let the desensitizing carry on.

comment #3

Telemachos says ...

Sounds like the scene plays exactly as it was scripted. You read the script, Jeff... why the sudden reaction now after (a) reading it and (b) already seeing the movie first?

I thought the script was lousy, so I'm not expecting much from the movie; but if you thought the script was a hoot I'm not sure how surprised you should be if what's on screen is exactly the same. IIRC, your script review was that it was so batshit insane that it was a must-see just to see how crazy QT got.

comment #4

buster keaton says ...

A great 10 minute opening, however. Whatever you think about Quentin Tarantino and his faeces-fragrant digits, he luckily has enough talent left in his fingertips to give this film a highly-intense, occasionally Hitchcock-worthy prologue about a farmer and his family. From writing to camerawork to acting, this prologue is a work of pure genius. As far as the rest of the film, unfortunately, you're pretty much got it on target: meh.

comment #5

raygo says ...

The scene of pure genious was most likely copied from another film. So what's left?

comment #6

raygo says ...

I think QT spends most of his time dreaming up fantastic prologues, then gets bored with the HARD part, building a cohesive plot around it.

comment #7

Jeffrey Wells says ...

I said in Cannes and I'm saying now that the first scene in the farmhouse is quite good. All downhill from there.

comment #8

Sabina E says ...

Actually, Wells, you are correct about the movie's disregard for human life and glorifying brutal violence.

Which is precisely WHY this film is perfect for Americans and will probably become a cult hit, even if it flops at the box office.

GO AMERICA!!!!11!!!!1

comment #9

Telemachos says ...

Yes, the prologue was good. Very arch, very clever and smug, very QT, but also good. But after that the story is just one giant rambling mess.

comment #10

Jeffrey Wells says ...

The difference between the script and the film is that Richard Sammel gives Sgt. Rachtman a certain intelligence and humanity that isn't in the script. I felt for the poor guy, and fell in hate with the Basterds because of his acting.

comment #11

Gordon27 says ...

I haven't seen the film yet, but it sounds as if you're criticizing the movie for moral ambiguity. I seem to remember you having a similar issue with 'Munich', too.

This is unusual, to me; I *love* the idea of a movie where the soldiers aren't blandly glamorized, where if they torture somebody, you feel bad about them afterwards.

But I relate to what you're saying; I felt that way in 'Saving Private Ryan', when everything has been set up so that you'll cheer when Jeremy Davies *finally* kills somebody (man, what a pussy, he can't even kill a Nazi that's killing his friend! Man up!).

comment #12

bmcintire says ...

Holy Christ. Is that Mike Meyers at 0:53? If I needed yet another reason to not see this, I now have it.

comment #13

mccool says ...

Except, Gordon, we;re not meant to dislike the Americans ... we're meant to cheer them on. I doubt very much Tarantino wrote this with any lesson in mind...that;s not the level at which he operates.

...it's not just officers and higher-ups who engineered the holocaust, but grunts who get butchered and tortured. The germans were certainly the enemy at the time, and a large number of regular citizens/soldiers shared complicity for the holocaust, blah blah, this has been debated for decades ... but what a low-brow way to go....really playing to base and primal emotions.

Guess this leaves Tarantino's confrontation with the paparazzi outside of a Telluride Starbucks as his lasting contribution from this decade.

comment #14

Jeffrey Wells says ...

I'll ask Jett to post something about his reaction. Maybe he'll oblige.

comment #15

Dan V. says ...

"Inglourious Basterds reeks of arrogance and sadism and indifference to the value of human life."

I'm glad someone who's seen it has said it, because this analysis is precisely what the film has oozed for a while.

I know I'm in the suspiciously eyed minority thanks to my lack of Basterds anticipation, but the to-date emphasis on all the gleeful and brutal killing with which Basterds is being sold doesn't sit well with me, be it Nazi punishment or not.

From everything I've seen and heard (especially out of Eli Roth's mouth), the intention feels exactly as Wells describes: IE- Wrong. As if Basterds is wrapping itself in the justification of the Holocaust as a cheap excuse to exact the same debasement in proxy. Killing scores of Nazis may be intended as feel-good violence, but I'm not sure violence for the sake of violence should ever feel good-- particularly when used for cavalier laughs and smug amusement born of "Hey man, check THIS out".

I realize there's all kinds of argument against where a perspective like Wells is coming from, including the ground-level fool's assertion he alludes to. I can understand the Tarantino appeal and don't wish to begrudge anyone of it, but this one has sold me off the bandwagon on its own.

comment #16

Michael says ...

when everything has been set up so that you'll cheer when Jeremy Davies *finally* kills somebody

By this point in the movie I was hoping someone, anyone (German, American, falling rocks, an angry bird, whatever) would kill Jeremy Davies character. Christ he is awful.

comment #17

Telemachos says ...

Isn't the point of an exploitation film to wallow in senseless ridiculous violence? (Except IMHO the better ones usually are clever enough to make the enemies far more vile than the anti-heroes.)

comment #18

NightWriter says ...

Agreed, Dan V.

Does anyone else think the subconscious genesis of IB is QT providing an ex post facto ultra-violent revenge fantasy for his long-time Semitic patrons/world-class cinematic voyeurs Harvey & Bob?

I grew up with a Jewish father obsessed with WWII and when I questioned him on his IB interest level he laughed and said "What bullshit!". For whom has this movie been made? Brad Pitt fans? No. WWII geeks? No. Psychopathic Jews (are there any besides Berkowitz, Rifkin and Steinberg)? No. The only answer is cine-nerds like QT.

What happened to the guy who made Reservoir Dogs? OK, it was a violent genre film, but one that stood a genre on its head, at least. What conventions is this splatter-fest going to overturn?

comment #19

Strangeways says ...

The epiphany for my intolerance of Tarantino and the moronic porn-violence of his films happened about halfway through Deathproof when you had to endure the slo-mo torture porn of the deaths of the girls at the hands of Kurt Russell in the first car wreck sequence.

comment #20

MilkMan says ...

The sooner QT is relegated to the margins, the better, the more poetic him and his career will end up being. He worships exploitation filmmaking, is the champion of obscure video nasties, so it makes sense that his movies, and this movie in particular, are engerdering these kind of reactions. His whole body of work has been predicated on making you laugh and making you feel uncomfortable, often within the span of a few seconds. Sounds like he's doing what he's always been doing, the only difference is that his palette has been getting bigger and bigger. Anyone expecting him to grow up is waiting for the impossible. He tried that once, didn't enjoy it.

comment #21

Travis Crabtree says ...

"But I relate to what you're saying; I felt that way in 'Saving Private Ryan', when everything has been set up so that you'll cheer when Jeremy Davies *finally* kills somebody (man, what a pussy, he can't even kill a Nazi that's killing his friend! Man up!)."

Wow, Gordon27, no offense but I think you read that scene all wrong. I don't think for a second that we were set up to cheer Davies shooting the soldier that killed Hanks. (Nobody in the theater the three times I saw it cheered). If anything it further illustrated his cowardice. He doesn't take action until everything's relatively safe. He then belatedly tries to compensate for his earlier inaction while Mellish was being killed.

comment #22

BoshBarnetWonkyDonkey says ...

I think though that, as Wells points out, Tarantino's films are so far removed from real life that he doesn't see his characters as real people, and instead sees them more like video game characters or something. Same with Eli Roth. The torture doesn't really bother them because their characters aren't real, so to them it's funny/cool to see them being brutally murdered.

In some senses brutal violence IS funny in films - think of stuff like Shaun of the Dead, Evil Dead, etc. - but I think it's all dependent on context. In this case Tarantino clearly thinks it's a laugh riot to exact bloody revenge on Nazis, but as Wells points out, the performance of the actor has elevated Tarantino's script to something more human than was written on the page, so the violence is off-putting. In a sense it's left to the actors to instil Tarantino's characters with a sense of humanity because he's unable to do it himself.

Of course I haven't seen it yet so I'd like to see for myself, but Wells' description above does not surprise me really. You get the impression that after he's finished running his motor mouth about "cool" stuff, Tarantino would be a crashing bore at a dinner party because he has no other interests than film. Even the music he likes is largely taken from other films' soundtracks.

comment #23

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

Jeff --

I think you make some applicable and prescient points about Tarantino and his navel-gazing of late.

Having said that, three important questions:

a) Isn't the entire point of making the villains Nazis that -- no matter how dignified and honorable they may seem -- they still have helped perpetrate unbearably heinous acts?

Lazy? You bet, but QT's far from the first to abuse the technique (and Spielberg went back to the well more than once, which given your distaste for him doesn't necessarily help my case).

Gordon also makes a good point above. Indeed, why shouldn't you feel bad about the soldiers who are torturing the Nazis? Isn't feeling kinda lousy about the vengeful execution of the eye-for-an-eye philosophy (which you have a habit of spouting here -- kidding or not -- on an almost daily basis, btw) kind of the point, in a morally-conflicted kinda way?

I didn't feel that great about what Alex DeLarge did to people (or what they did to him, later) in A Clockwork Orange, either. But I think it is a great film primarily because of -- not in spite of -- stirring these ambivalent feelings.

b) What are the charges about the movie being "too talky" all about? Is it because it is a genre piece (aka WW2), and fails to deliver the minimum of epic setpieces that are promised to us in the text?

Woody Allen and Kevin Smith's movies are almost always "too talky" by half, but they're (usually) pretty good writers and most people (esp. critics) seem to accept that the movies will be less structurally stable/visually sumptuous as long as the dialogue is there.

What's the difference here? Perhaps his actual filmmaking was just too good in his first three features that just falling back on his writing won't work? I am just asking.

c) I think you're giving Richard Sammel a helluva lot of credit for acting out a character that was most likely written the way you describe him. So the scene made you uneasy...isn't that what Tarantino has been doing since the ear-slicing in RD?

Haven't seen the film yet. Hopefully I'll like it better than you, but I don't know. I'll be there opening day, but I'm already trying to temper my expectations a bit.

comment #24

Telemachos says ...

Based on the script, it's "too talky" in the same way that DEATH PROOF is too talky. You have long rambling conversations that serve no purpose than an effort to be clever, with (deliberately) anachronistic dialogue that's all wink-wink about other stories and/or films that it's referencing. A little of that can be fun and amusing, but for a updated tribute to an exploitation war movie, there's huge swaths of time where not a whole lot happens. Now, maybe QT makes this dead space (dead in terms of story, plot, or character development) zing with lots of cool, stylish cinematography and music, and maybe the actors breathe more into their roles than what was on the page, but somehow (after seeing DEATH PROOF) I doubt it.

comment #25

MilkMan says ...

Tarantino really doesn't have any other interests but movies. That's why he is one of the most beloved, influential, and talented filmmakers of his generation, worldwide, and the last Superstar Filmmaker this country has produced. He's made some great movies, some mediocre ones, and he'll probably make some more great one, and some more mediocre ones. Kids who aren't even born yet are going to discover his movies, and in 15, 20 years, and he'll then be revered again, and the cycle will continue, for a long, long time. And he is just as responsible for the acting of his actors as his actors are. He is the director. He directs them to act a certain way, in many different ways, and then chooses which take he likes best, so to just say that one of the actors is solely responsible for imbuing a character with humanity seems a little disingenuous.

comment #26

Emmanuel_Goldstein says ...

Seeing District 9 tomorrow and I am STOKED

comment #27

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

"Except, Gordon, we;re not meant to dislike the Americans ... we're meant to cheer them on. I doubt very much Tarantino wrote this with any lesson in mind...that;s not the level at which he operates."

Hmm, I wouldn't be so sure about that if I were you. Is there something about him that screams out "jingoistic basterd?"

The dude loves HK flicks, French New Wave, foreign actors, serious film criticism, and he's practically worshiped at Cannes.

I think there's at least a little more to his movies than a lot of people give him credit for. I didn't particularly like Kill Bill on the "level" of his other movies, but even then, I only had to watch it once to catch the running subtext of the feuding (divorced?) parents/broken household.

How many other directors are layering their movies like that? Not many, and especially not many in Hollywood.

comment #28

BoshBarnetWonkyDonkey says ...

"He directs them to act a certain way, in many different ways, and then chooses which take he likes best, so to just say that one of the actors is solely responsible for imbuing a character with humanity seems a little disingenuous."

Yeah, you're probably right. I am likely being too harsh on him.

comment #29

MilkMan says ...

Another thing I don't get is that people act like Tarantino just made his first film a couple of years ago and that he's some flash in the pan and that they hype is not to be believed, like maybe if we wish hard enough, he'll just go away. He made his first film almost 20 years ago. It's like he has to prove himself with every new movie. If you're not a fan of his films by now, I think it's safe to say that you never will be, and if you're waiting for him to make another Resevoir Dogs, that's not going to happen either.

comment #30

BoshBarnetWonkyDonkey says ...

"It's like he has to prove himself with every new movie. If you're not a fan of his films by now, I think it's safe to say that you never will be, and if you're waiting for him to make another Resevoir Dogs, that's not going to happen either."

I think people just expected a bit more from him. It's like if Spielberg made Raiders of the Lost Ark and then spent the rest of his career making homages to all the other serials he liked as a kid instead of branching out a bit and exploring different types of film. Even when he goes back to a familiar subject - for example, WWII - Spielberg does something different with it. Compare 1941 to Empire of the Sun to Indiana Jones to Schindler's List to Saving Private Ryan, etc.

Tarantino meanwhile seems totally uninterested in doing anything different. People say that's his whole thing, that he'll never change and that we are missing the point if we don't get this about him, but it's a shame to see someone with such promise just repeat himself again and again. I mean Paul Thomas Anderson made perhaps the best film of his career so far when he branched out and made There Will Be Blood. Whereas Wes Anderson made The Darjeeling Limited and bored almost everyone.

comment #31

Telemachos says ...

Yeah, BBWD nails it. I love early Tarantino -- there was a hunger and vibrancy there and despite a lot of homages/tips of the hat to his various genre loves he also spent the time really developing strong, interesting and dynamic characters. He also worked hard at the ebb-and-flow of storytelling; how to ramp up a story to a big climax and resolve storylines and threads that needed resolving.

To me, this just isn't happening on his last few projects. His films have gotten longer while the actual story has been reduced. And his lack of interest in anything other than self-referencial movies-within-genre movies is tiresome. I mean, even other modern-day shlock/genre auteurs (like Stuart Gordon) have expanded out and done interesting or challenging films far beyond the impact of their original hits.

Whereas QT's become obsessed with delving deeper and deeper into his re-creation of his cult grindhouse faves, while (paradoxically) spending more and more on them.

Say what you will about an exploitation film, but it was usually made for no money and didn't waste time getting to the point (or wrapping things up). If QT wanted to truly do a film in this tradition, IB should be 90 minutes and cost under $5 million.

comment #32

MilkMan says ...

Edmond and Stuck are really good films.

comment #33

Anonymous Bosch says ...

How is this any different to the unrealistic and naive glorifications of 'cool' violence in *all* his films, (including ones made by other directors like True Romance and Natural Born Killers)?

They were despicable enough then, and perfect fodder for try-hard twenty-somethings to salivate over, because neither director or viewer had obviously ever dealt with the reality of death first-hand to have had any profound emotional reaction to it.

Tarentino is forty-five! How can he *still* not show any evidence of life experience other than watching endless dreck? Has he ever seen a real corpse?

comment #34

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

Just piggy-backing & riffing off of MM's (who almost always seems to get it) #20 comment:

Tarantino (and by proxy, the Weinsteins) have had to deal with the particular "problem" of Quentin -- and specifically Pulp Fiction -- being a calling card for commercial viability. I think that movie's popularity was a bit of an anomaly anyway...it was released during the absolute apex of the indie movement of the 90s, and just sort of had the good fortune of being released by the right studio, at the right time, with the right cast (the fact that it was actually good was largely incidental).

Financially, it's a nice problem to have....for awhile. But as time passes (and coke habits form), it's just becoming more and more obvious that he's just not a mainstream filmmaker. Quentin knows what general audiences want out of genre pieces, and on a certain level (the "fan") I think he wants to please them, but I think an equal part of him (the "art critic") totally wants to frustrate them and dash all expectations.

That's a rather Godardian concept, and In some of his earlier interviews, he used to talk a lot about that guy. He doesn't talk about him so much, anymore, but I still think he still really likes the idea of the cat-and-mouse game between filmmaker and audience (I also think it largely determined whether you enjoyed Death Proof, or fucking hated it).

I know back in the day the comparisons to Scorsese were numerous (and he does have a similar energy, although maybe that's just the coke?), but I think his real influences -- and there are obviously tons -- are much trashier (Larry Cohen), obscure (Abel Ferrera), or both (Samuel Fuller).

comment #35

Terry McCarty says ...

BoshBarnetWonkyDonkey wrote:
Whereas Wes Anderson made The Darjeeling Limited and bored almost everyone.

Thought DARJEELING LIMITED was a partial return to form after the sputtering LIFE AQUATIC.

comment #36

MilkMan says ...

And don't forget who is cinematic spiritual godfather is, another filmmaker who was always accused of being a rip-off artist, who seemed to filter the entirety of his experience through film, whose violence was considered reprehensible and misanthropic, who always played with audience expectations, who was supposed to grow up and make humanistic films about things that mattered, who plenty of people still hate and still think is an overrated hack: De Palma.

comment #37

The Bandsaw Vigilante says ...

Also, is anyone else already as sick at seeing those "NEIN! NEIN! NEIN! NEIN!!" TV spots as I am?

comment #38

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

"Even when he goes back to a familiar subject - for example, WWII - Spielberg does something different with it. Compare 1941 to Empire of the Sun to Indiana Jones to Schindler's List to Saving Private Ryan, etc."

I like how you kind of gloss over the fact that Spielberg has directed 4 sequels to his films (Indy 2-4, JP2). Not to mention some of the sequel turds he's laid on us as a producer (MiB 2, JPIII, Transformers 1-3). Also, he hit a pretty rough creative patch in the late '80s/early '90s with the likes of Color Purple, Always, and Hook.

I'm not going to turn this into a Stevie-bashing thread, because personally -- I love the guy. But the majority of my respect for him has come very recently (when he was turning sixty!) with films like A.I., Catch Me If You Can, and esp. Munich. Before that, I honestly thought he was a bit of a one-trick pony (thrill rides? good. history lessons? bad.) with the one obvious exception.

Quentin's only in his mid-40s. For directors, that is still really quite young. For his age, his body of work is still pretty impressive (name another American filmmaker from his generation that can compare. P.T. Anderson? Maybe.). I think he has another good 30 years left in him, if he can cut back on the nose candy.

If there's anything that really disappoints me about him, it's his work ethic. But everyone has his own speed, and by his own admission he'll never make a movie just for the paycheck. That could very well be self-glorifying B.S. (wouldn't be the first time), but I sort of believe it.

comment #39

Beth says ...

Thanks for the review. I haven't seen the commercials but the print ads were sucking me in.

Bats. Ugh.

comment #40

Wrecktem says ...

One problem, I think, with Tarantino is his relationship with his mentor and benefactor, Harvey Weinstein. Harvey needs Tarantino a lot more than Tarantino needs Harvey. It would be fascinating to see Quentin work with another studio. His obvious gifts as both a writer and director need to be better harnassed, and Harvey is NOT the guy to do it.

comment #41

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

Of course, De Palma. Whom he still worships, by the way. I remember watching him on Jimmy Kimmel awhile back (think it was for KB Vol. 1), and he could just not stop raving about Femme Fatale.

I knew I was forgetting someone important.

Didn't Cahiers du Cinema actually rank Mission to Mars as the #1 film of 2000?

QT should probably move to France. Didn't Avary live there before that whole vehicular manslaughter incident?

comment #42

MovieBob says ...

A nazi uniform is a target that makes ANYTHING you do to the guy(s) wearing it perfectly okay. This has been a basic, ironclad rule of filmmaking for about six decades now - you might as well ask him not to use a medium-shot ;)

There is NOTHING (listen carefully now) NOTHING wrong with revenge-fantasy as a foundational-purpose for a work of art. Winning a fight feels good. Winning a fight where the other guy was a rotten jerk feels even better. Winning a fight against a person (or entity) that's personally wronged you feels GREAT. Making them suffer in the loss feels fucking ORGASMIC. Every human being understands this. Every honest, introspective human being will ADMIT it. It's in the blood. It's been true about us before fire was called fire.

And since our species is one that tells stories, it's ALWAYS been part of our entertainment and our art. The Romans dressed colloseum victims in the costumes of hated enemies so that they might be killed for vicarious spectacle. Tarantino (and, let's be frank here, EVERYONE who's been making european-theatre WWII movies for six decades) dresses bad guys as nazis so that we can revel in the slaughter of the one-and-only "ultimate villians." That's as much progress as your gonna get on this one ;)

comment #43

austin111 says ...

GOOD CHRIST!!! This looks and sounds just dreadful. Any admiration I had for Pitt seems to be dissolving at this moment. Did he really think this would look good on his resume?

comment #44

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

"Say what you will about an exploitation film, but it was usually made for no money and didn't waste time getting to the point (or wrapping things up). If QT wanted to truly do a film in this tradition, IB should be 90 minutes and cost under $5 million."

I actually agree with this 100%. I don't really believe in letting things like budgets, studios, and P+A interfere with my enjoyment or hatred of movies, but when I saw how much Grindhouse cost to make, I was kind of floored.

You could certainly make the argument, if you wanted, that spending (at least) 10 times the money to re-create a raw 70s drive-in cheapie is blasphemy of the highest order. Kind of like U2 spending a boatload of money to "age" the sound on their next record so it sounds more "CBGBs."

Having said all that, it's Harvey's money he's blowing, so I don't give a fuck.

comment #45

Telemachos says ...

CitizenKaned, if this was the late 90s or early 00s, I might agree that QT was front-and-shoulders the leader of his generation of filmmakers. I no longer think that's the case; people like Nolan and Fincher have evolved their own aesthetic and brought it to bear on various and highly different projects; people like Soderbergh have done a ton of experimentation AND studio movies as well. Someone like Bigelow is a bit older, but even she continues to evolve and adjust, despite making only a couple of films in the last decade. You've already mentioned PT Anderson. Someone like Peter Jackson, who came out of the same low-budget genre aesthetic as QT (albeit in a different way) has now done epics (both fantasyand self-indulgent self-referential ones), but continues to expand his adaptive efforts into adult dramas and childhood faves. Spike Jonze has done a whole mess of interesting things. (btw, I don't mean to imply that everything these filmmakers have done is great or even good, but that they're challenging themselves with their approach and subject matter.) QT -- and perhaps Wes Anderson -- out of this whole generation of filmmakers (and I'm sure I'm missing a bunch of them) seems content to wade in the same section of the pool that he always has, and without bringing anything new to the table.

comment #46

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

Good post, Bob.

People seemingly get more despicable in their real lives by the day, yet their tolerance for stomaching despicable FICTIONAL behavior up onscreen seems to be lower than ever.

Now I understand this isn't everyone's cup of tea. But for people championing the "cool" violence of all these other summer tentpoles but flinching when violence might actually feel (*gasp*) a little awkward -- have we really become this narcissistic?

comment #47

Richard_Stone says ...

Great review, Wells. I was a Tarantino fanboy during the Pulp Fiction peak (I was 15), but by now I've got a full-on schadenfreude for Tarantino.

Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction will always be sort of cool, but I think QT is getting a little too much credit for them. Yeah, yeah, he was the writer-director, but for me it was Harvey Keitel that made Reservoir Dogs a stunning piece of film, and honestly I always thought Pulp Fiction was boring for the most part with a few cool and thrilling scenes in there. But back to Harvey Keitel: he played his character from the gut without any wink and that's what always rooted the rest of the movie in a dangerous sense of reality.

(Keitel was one of the first Tarantino preachers, having co-produced RD and put his own money in the casting process. I think it's telling that he himself didn't work with QT after From Dusk Til Dawn. Maybe I'm projecting too much, but it seemed clear to me in the making-of of FDTD that Keitel was dissapointed with how QT was turning .)

If QT were directing Reservoir Dogs today, he'd probably have Eli Roth play Mr. White, have the camera twirl above the scene uselessly, have some retro-looking kind of film stock, etc.

QT was better when he let his actors do their work in their own style and kept his directing as minimalist as possible. Now, he's just a gimmicky director without a brain.

Still, I want to go see IB just to be able to criticize it and know what I'm talking about.

comment #48

Alexander says ...

Jeff Wells, this is the greatest piece you have written in a long time. Informative and insightful. This is one of those painful pans you rarely see--you want to be behind Tarantino here, but you just can't. Fascinating critique.

comment #49

bluefugue says ...

>I think people just expected a bit more from him. It's like if Spielberg made Raiders of the Lost Ark and then spent the rest of his career making homages to all the other serials he liked as a kid instead of branching out a bit and exploring different types of film. Even when he goes back to a familiar subject - for example, WWII - Spielberg does something different with it. Compare 1941 to Empire of the Sun to Indiana Jones to Schindler's List to Saving Private Ryan, etc.

FWIW, though, I think Raiders was a more successful effort than most of Spielberg's subsequent films. When he tries to get "serious" he sometimes has difficulty. Schindler's List is probably the only completely successful film in Spielberg's Oscar-grubbing catalogue, and even that's debatable. I sometimes fear that when filmmakers "grow up" or "get serious" they are likely to make films that are more turgid and strained, less free-flowing and inspired. One thing I like about Hitchcock is that he very seldom tried to move outside of the suspense-thriller milieu, but within that milieu he pushed the envelope, either by getting more intellectual/formalistic (Rear Window) or by exposing weird currents in his psyche (Vertigo).

comment #50

bluefugue says ...

>Jeff Wells, this is the greatest piece you have written in a long time. Informative and insightful. This is one of those painful pans you rarely see--you want to be behind Tarantino here, but you just can't. Fascinating critique.

Yup, kudos Jeff. This is the kind of entry that makes HE such a special blog.

comment #51

DarthCorleone says ...

MovieBob >> Good point, although that doesn't require that all audiences derive the same level of enjoyment from revenge-fantasy. Stating that it's not to one's taste - and in fact finding it to be in bad taste - is as valid of a reaction as reveling in it. Civilization has advanced just a bit since the days of the Colosseum.

comment #52

Glenn Kenny says ...

Shorter Wells: Nazis were people too.

Also: No offense man, I know it's supposed to make you look all smart and shit to evoke James Joyce's final novel as an example of an artist who'd disappeared up his own ass, but you really destroy your case when you reveal you pig-ignorance of that novel right off the bat. There's no apostrophe in the title of "Finnegans Wake." On purpose, even! How's THAT for disappearing up your own ass?

I'm seeing the picture Thursday. You've really made me look forward to it. Oh, the humanity!

comment #53

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

'machos -- To varying degrees, I love all the guys (and girl) you mentioned.

Loved Nolan from the get-go (Following is a great debut; underrated as hell). Fincher's aesthetic has indeed grown up quite a bit, although some have mentioned that his style has evolved into something perhaps a little too meditative with TCCoBB (not that I necessarily agree, but I see where they're coming from).

Love the videos of Spike Jonze, but it sort of remains to be seen how prolific an auteur he is, IMHO. I fully expect WtWTA to rock hard, but I need to see that before I can call him an elite FILM director -- as of now his work is too entangled with Charlie Kaufman, who I think is also brilliant.

As much as I love P-Jax's early work (and i do love it), I'm not sure if he hadn't attached himself to the epic LotR films, he wouldn't be in the same "rut" you describe QT and WA being in. Obviously, it's a moot point now because he nailed the adaptation of one of the most beloved fantasy trilogies of all time, but I wonder what lies ahead for him. I found King Kong really underwhelming, and his last film of completely original material was The Frighteners. I'm pretty sure I'd rather watch a new Tarantino movie than The Frighteners or yet another version of King Kong. But that's just me.

Never really a big Anderson fan (save Bottle Rocket), but I can't deny he has his own aesthetic. He continues to do what he's always done, and I fail to see what's inherently wrong with that. Couldn't you rightfully accuse Ford, Hitchcock, and Allen of that, too?

As for Tarantino, I think it wouldn't actually hurt if he took another shot at adapting someone else's work, or at least tried writing with someone else. You look at that list of filmmakers you gave me, and Tarantino is the only one on there who is constantly working alone on original scripts he writes. I give him a lot of credit for remaining creative like that, but at the same time, the lack of an outside opinion does leave the door open to the possibility of (as Jeff puts it) sticking a finger up his own ass.

At this point, having another voice in one his films wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, and could possibly even re-invigorate his own writing. I thought what he did with Elmore Leonard's Rum Punch was a revelation, frankly.

comment #54

corey3rd says ...

did he at least change the baseball bat so it's a Hank Greenberg bat?

All I need to know is that Eli Roth is in the film to know that there's worse things than being hit in the face with a bat - it's sharing screen time with Eli. He's Vanilla Ice to Tarantino's MC Hammer - proof that Tarantino isn't the worst acting director.

comment #55

DeeZee says ...

Test.

comment #56

Telemachos says ...

CK, I agree. (PJ gets points -- for me -- from doing Heavenly Creatures and Lovely Bones, in addition to his LOTR and entirely self-indulgent KK.)

QT needs a strong voice to push against him, IMHO. This could be a number of different things: a producer to push against some of his decisions (forcing him to justify WHY he's taking a particular approach); an adaptation of a novel he cares about; directing someone else's script (all the better if it's someone he respects)... all these things would force him outside of his little box, no matter how slightly. And I think he'd make better movies. Strong talent needs to be challenged, otherwise it either stagnates or becomes lazy or self-indulgent.

Unfortunately, it seems that Jackie Brown made QT get away from those other voices, and I think his work has suffered since then.

comment #57

tommy five-tone says ...

Just so you know, Richard_Stone, Keitel has a voiceover cameo in Basterds.

comment #58

DeeZee says ...

From http://www.16beavergroup.org/mtarchive/archives/001536.php :

Nor is Godard especially flattering about the legions of admirers who make reference to him in their own movies or even name their companies after him. Quentin Tarantino, for example, calls his production company A Band Apart, in deference to Godard's 1964 classic, Bande [a] Part. "He says he admires me, but that's not true," Godard muses, then makes a cryptic remark about the torture and humiliation of prisoners by US guards in Iraq. "What is never said about Tarantino is that those prisons we are shown pictures of, where the torture is taking place, are called "reservoir dogs". I think the name is very appropriate."

"I hated it because it has the same attitude about those damn Nazis that the damn Nazis and the other anti-Semites had about the Jews in the lead-up to

"juicy creative imaginings (which he's obviously had a rollicking good time with in years past"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HgbSAL8OKY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZKgptV4GmQ&feature=response_watch

"Isn't this is what men of honor and bravery do in wartime -- i.e., refuse to help the enemy kill their fellow soldiers, even if it means their own death?"

Gawdamit, I really hate taking QT's side on this, but these *weren't* men of honor. At best, they were little Eichmanns. But yeah, torturing him for that shit is still immoral. [Not technically illegal at the time, since we didn't have the Geneva Conventions, but still immoral.] But anyway, Slaughter-House Five is a better movie to watch than IB.

Telemachos: I'm guessing the script had more lengthy bullshit references to movies and actors of the time than the movie, which is what Jeff really liked about the concept. And he was probably hoping for something closer to that vein than an reverse-Ilsa flick.

"Isn't the point of an exploitation film to wallow in senseless ridiculous violence?"

Perhaps, but when that violence is a little too close to home, it ends up coming off less entertaining than it normally would under different circumstances. Sort of like why I didn't like Kill Bill, because it seemed like a pro-Bush movie. [I.E. we get revenge on anything and anyone, just because we're wronged, even if we were once collaborators. And if anyone is pissed about it, then "Bring it On".]

"Yeah, BBWD nails it. I love early Tarantino -- there was a hunger and vibrancy there and despite a lot of homages/tips of the hat to his various genre loves he also spent the time really developing strong, interesting and dynamic characters."

You really should click on those Youtube links.

DeafBrown: No, it's going to be a bastard child even with the cult flick fans, because they don't have the patience to endure the pointless dialogue to get to the money shots.

Wells: Yep, QT is great at wasting talented actors with stock roles. Look at what he did with Sonny Chiba and Robert Deniro. [And I guess Bridget Fonda, too.] I actually almost wanted to see IB for Daniel Bruhl, too, but I know it's going to be a cameo at best.

Dan V.: Well, yeah. War has consequences, so you'd better get it right. You'd figure a guy born during the Vietnam era would know that better than anyone.

Nightwriter: "What happened to the guy who made Reservoir Dogs? OK, it was a violent genre film, but one that stood a genre on its head, at least."

Reservoir Dogs wasn't his idea. And you know what happened to him. He burned his bridges with Roger, and he he tried to hack it[pun intended] on his own, and the rest is history.

Milkman: I thought his work was predicated on you not having access to the original films, unless you wanted to go to places like Lazer Blazer.

"Kids who aren't even born yet are going to discover his movies, and in 15, 20 years, and he'll then be revered again, and the cycle will continue, for a long, long time."

Bullshit. His time is up, and he's the only one who doesn't know it yet. His whole career was built on the back of the VHS and LD era; and now it's completely irrelevant in the DVD/BD era. QT's like his buddy, Carradine. Once action fans found out about actual Asian martial artists like Jackie Chan, DC's work on Kung Fu became irrelevant.

"He made his first film almost 20 years ago."

Twenty-two, if you count "My Best Friend's Birthday".

"who plenty of people still hate and still think is an overrated hack: De Palma."

He definitely showed hack-work on the first Mission Impossible, but at least he was honest about Scarface being a remake.

Kane: Spielberg at least has Nazis done away with in self-defense.

"Indeed, why shouldn't you feel bad about the soldiers who are torturing the Nazis?"

Because it's sort of spitting in the face of the vets? Sort of like O'Reilly and Malmedy. Yeah, it's tough to like the pilots who dropped the A-Bomb or the ones who wiped out Dresden, but at least they did it for the sake of protecting us, rather than just to get their jollies off, like the soldiers in this flick.

"I didn't feel that great about what Alex DeLarge did to people (or what they did to him, later) in A Clockwork Orange, either. But I think it is a great film primarily because of -- not in spite of -- stirring these ambivalent feelings."

Actually, it's a crappy film, because it tones down the book. The guy's a fucking sociopath in the original story, but they just made him a delinquent in the movie. And it took away any sense of complexity of his character, too. I can totally get why Burgess hated the adaptation.

"What are the charges about the movie being "too talky" all about? Is it because it is a genre piece (aka WW2), and fails to deliver the minimum of epic setpieces that are promised to us in the text?"

Actually, IB is too talky in the script, too, which is why it fails as a whole.

"Woody Allen and Kevin Smith's movies are almost always "too talky" by half, but they're (usually) pretty good writers "

And QT's a horrible writer, since he's only good at copying-and-pasting.

"I think you're giving Richard Sammel a helluva lot of credit for acting out a character that was most likely written the way you describe him."

Nope, he's written as a throwaway.

"and he's practically worshiped at Cannes."

He was worshiped at Cannes until IB.

"I only had to watch it once to catch the running subtext of the feuding (divorced?) parents/broken household."

Except these parents are professional killers. So it's kind of tough to like either of them.

"Quentin knows what general audiences want out of genre pieces,"

If he did, then Grindhouse would have been a hit.

"but I think an equal part of him (the "art critic") totally wants to frustrate them and dash all expectations."

It's more like he wants to avoid actually doing anything which isn't safe.

"For his age, his body of work is still pretty impressive (name another American filmmaker from his generation that can compare."

I can name two: The Coens.

Emmanuel: I'm hoping to catch Ponyo.

Bosh: Mr. Furry's, er, Mr. Fox, is pretty underwhelming, too.

Anonymous: I haven't seen them myself, and they were probably over-hyped bullshit, but I'm assuming those films at least have some subtext?

comment #59

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

"QT was better when he let his actors do their work in their own style and kept his directing as minimalist as possible."

First time I've ever heard Pulp Fiction referred to as "minimalist."

Oddly enough, it's Death Proof that probably contains some of Quentin's most minimalist work ever.

See, this is why he'll never be able to win over mainstream audiences (again). Half of you complain about his over-indulgent action scenes, while the other half is too busy being bored watching his characters simply interact with each other (including several dead spaces in between conversations).

I don't think his aesthetic has changed. He has always mixed a late 60s/early 70s European cinema-vibe, sprinkled with flashes of Asian cinema-influenced violence, topped off with his own brand of self-referential dialogue.

I mean, it probably feels less fresh now than it did then, and maybe the screenplays aren't as tightly constructed, but I really don't think the fundamental underlying aesthetic has changed at all.

comment #60

DeeZee says ...

Minus that "I hated" thing.

comment #61

DeeZee says ...

Bandsaw: I'm surprised there isn't a Downfall/Bastards mash-up yet.

comment #62

arturobandini2 says ...

Not to drift too far off-topic, but the theme of Jeffrey's review (and the discussion following) reminds me of Francois Truffaut's ultimate disavowal of his own film, The Bride Wore Black (the unacknowledged inspiration for Kill Bill). Spoilers ahead.

Truffaut's adaptation changed the source novel's outcome and allowed the heroine to complete her revenge mission against the men who killed her husband -- even though it was an accident. At the time, Truffaut found something noble in her willingness to surrender to life in prison just so she could whack the last dude on her list. (In the book, she discovers she's killing the wrong guys and repents.) Years later, Truffaut condemned his own movie for glorifying revenge. Revenge is one of our ugliest impulses, he explained, and any artist who suggests otherwise is behaving irresponsibly.

comment #63

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

"Unfortunately, it seems that Jackie Brown made QT get away from those other voices, and I think his work has suffered since then."

Agreed, and it's a shame. Unfortunately now, I fear if he was to direct someone else's script, it would probably be written by Eli Roth, who would probably just try write it like a Tarantino movie as a "homage" to one of his idols, and creatively, he'd just be back at square one. We probably wouldn't even be able to tell the difference.

He is a stubborn basterd. I think he needs to waaaay outside his comfort zone. Adapt a respected 19th century English novel. Draw a name out of a fucking hat. Thackeray? Fine. I'm not even joking.

Good post, thanks for your response.

comment #64

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

*needs to stray

comment #65

Big Black says ...

First there was all this angst over the film being "too talky" and not enough action, now the characters literally TITLED the "Inglourious Basterds" are a little too cold-blooded, violent and detestable for you to snuggle up and share catharsis with? I applaud your honest reaction after giving the script a thumbs-up, Jeff, but man, what makes you think we aren't supposed to stop a bit short of loving each of these murderers?

In other news, this week Anne Thompson linked to an article from the grand-daughter of a Jewish soldier in WWII, who used her relative's story to decry the nazi-killing jews depicted in Inglourious Basterds.. as if the Tarantino was being sold as a true story on false pretenses or something.

Huh?
I thought this whole business was about telling stories, but I guess I've been mistaken. And now I guess WWII is suddenly territory that's off-limits unless you're serious as a coronary; as if Schindler's List and Saving Private Ryan wiped away the possibility, and The Dirty Dozen is a moral aberration no decent person should enjoy anymore?

And does anyone else think the bar for enjoying violent fiction might be getting set a bit too high when we're asked to share a room with a dead body before we can watch and enjoy a violent action film? Someone actually insinuated that shit right in this thread and was not called out on it! Let me guess, dude - your day job's as a morgue attendant??

And someone else here now claims about Pulp Fiction: "the fact that it was actually good was largely incidental." And his name is not DZ!

What the fuck are you talking about, man? So now, that film was just an accident that Tarantino, the author and director, actually had no hand in? Dude, that is the biggest pile of bullshit I've heard since the first day of footage captured at these wacko town hall meetings.

What a pile of shit this thread is.

Milkman is absolutely right that there's a lot of desire out there for Tarantino to stop being Tarantino and bloom into somebody else entirely, but there's so much other baggage here that it's become apparent that trying to address and decode all of it is a losing proposition.

comment #66

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

Things we have learned from D.Z. today:

Posts attempting to respond to everyone at once aren't annoying or difficult to read.

Slaughterhouse Five is better than Inglourious Basterds (which, according to him, already bombed six months ago).

Kill Bill is a Pro-Bush movie.

Robert De Niro and Bridget Fonda were "wasted" in Jackie Brown (nevermind that in the decade since, they have rarely been better).

It's only okay to kill Nazis if it's in self-defense.

A Clockwork Orange is "a crappy film."

The script to IB is "too talky" (he would have liked more purdy pictures, too).

It's impossible to like characters that are professional killers. Unless the film is directed by an Asian, then it becomes awesome.

For all the bile he spills against Quentin, the only American filmmakers he prefers are the Coen Brothers.

My Best Friend's Birthday counts as an official Tarantino film, even though it has never been released in theaters, VHS, or DVD, didn't even run 70 minutes, and only about half of that survives in any form today.

No idea how Ben Lyons ever beat you out for that At the Movies seat, dude.

comment #67

hawthorne says ...

I had no desire to see this movie before reading your review. Now I am sure I won't be seeing it. All I can say is this is a great piece of writing Mr. Wells. I think somewhere up the thread someone echoed my thoughts but this is the kind of writing that makes me come back every day. Thanx.

comment #68

Richard_Stone says ...

When I am talking about QT's minimalist directing style, I am mostly talking of long takes and sober camera movements. There were some flights of fancy in Pulp Fiction obviously and there are a lot of other creative things that fall under the umbrella of the director, but as a whole there seemed to be an economy of movement and ideas that went out the window with Kill Bills.

comment #69

VictorLazlo says ...

Totally mystified by this thread. Early Tarantino? The guy made SIX movies.

Reservoir Dogs, Pulp Fiction, Jackie Brown, Kill Bill, Death Proof, Inglorious Basterds.

Thats his filmography.

Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction are modern classics. Pulp Fiction, in particular, is one of 'The Essentials' as TCM puts it. It'll sit alongside Citizen Kane, The Godfather, Casablanca, etc. Jackie Brown is an unsung great film.

Death Proof was a bit of a lark. (even though I loved it).

And then there's KILL BILL, a movie that has aged incredibly well and is a lot more influential than the box office take suggests. (I wonder if it is a huge seller on DVD) Kill Bill is commercial, escapist action fare and it is better than 99.9 percent of the commercial escapist action fare Hollywood produces. 30 years from now THAT is the movie 13 year old boys will be watching not Transformers 2. It is very much on the level of the original Star Wars and Raiders of the Lost Ark.

I can't finger why he inspires so much vitriol and "pulled out of your ass" analysis. He's a great director. He'll make a bad movie here and there.

comment #70

televisiontears says ...

I just wanted to pop in and say this is such a great thread. I got in a little too late, so anything I'd add would be redundant at this point. Regardless, this has been a great read, and one of the reasons I keep coming back here.

comment #71

Ryansi51 says ...

"I don't know Tarantino, but I believe he's stuck his finger up his ass and given it a good sniff and smelled lilacs and gardenias so many times that he's lost his mind"

well said. come to think of it, that could be your tagline Jeff.

Hollywood Elsewhere - Wellsaid

comment #72

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

And someone else here now claims about Pulp Fiction: "the fact that it was actually good was largely incidental." And his name is not DZ!"

Whoa, whoa, whoa. You must have been skimming my comment -- I don't blame you because I've been getting worked up in this thread and blathering on -- because you totally missed the context of what I was sayin', man.

I believe that PF being good was largely incidental in regards to it being a commercially successful film. I didn't mean the movie's actual qualityas a film was incidental, I just meant that the general audience's response to films is generally pretty random, and seemingly has very little to do with quality.

Years later, The Blair Witch Project and My Big Fat Greek Wedding were pretty big indie hits, I couldn't really tell you specifically why. They just capture the zeitgeist somehow. I think it's basically impossible to predict or justify (try as D.Z. will).

comment #73

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

"but as a whole there seemed to be an economy of movement and ideas that went out the window with Kill Bills."

I agree with you up to a point, but wasn't the whole idea of that movie a sort of flight of fancy? I mean, love it or hate it (although I still like it, Vol. 1 is probably my least fave Quentin movie...I find it oddly impersonal), but the movie is called Kill Bill for a reason. I don't think you dial up a picture like that and realistically expect Tarkovsky.

comment #74

TulseLuper says ...

I watched Reservoir Dogs again recently. One thing that really struck me was the pain that all the characters experience, and I mean all of them. The infamous torture scene has Tarantino's darkly comic stamp all over it but it's that time that we spend with the cop afterwards that makes it so compelling. No matter how much Tarantino enjoyed the spectacle of violence in that film, he still had the guts to face the reality of what those people were doing to each other.

Kill Bill marked a chance in Tarantino's attitude, and since then, he has essentially become the adolescent gorehound that moral crusaders accused him of being in the first place. That's what's so disheartening about all this. He is capable of so much more than this kind of crap. After he demonstrated how mature he could be with Jackie Brown, he decided to give up on substance just stayed with his bag of tricks.

comment #75

Telemachos says ...

KILL BILL, a classic for the ages? Compared with STAR WARS and RAIDERS? Really? I mean, I know people who like it but aside from major QT fans I've never heard average folks wax positive about it like that.

The two KILL BILLs made about $150 million domestic. Outside of die-hard genre fans they haven't caught on with the general public (as both SW and RAIDERS did). Let's wait a decade or so before anointing them the best action films of the '00s. (As a matter of both box-office and style, for example, the BOURNE movies have been seen by far more people, gotten about the same critical response, and been more influential as action filmmaking.)

comment #76

Richard_Stone says ...

TulseLuper says it better than I could.
There were grounds of reality in RD, PF and JB to build the flights of fancy over. There is none in KB and DP, and the trailers of IB sure don't point to much realism either.

I didn't expect Tarkovsky when I went into Kill Bill, but the movie didn't connect with me on any emotional level. I'll give it one thing: for a bad movie I hated, at least it had some gimmicks and novelties, and I could debate my appreciation of the film with friends. Kill Bill is a bad and boring film, but at least it's bad and boring in interesting or novel ways. That's why I'll probably go see Inglouirous Basterds.

comment #77

Jayne says ...

I hate, hate, HATE Eli Roth. I would never see him in any damn thing under the sun, nor spend a penny on one of his movies. He is utter slime, paired with a bunch of other unmentionable adjectives.

QT has essentially made himself irrelevant. It's been downhill ever since Jackie Brown, which I still love with a white hot passion. No one wants to see this movie, even with Pitt. Epic Fail.

comment #78

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

Did PF or RD really connect on an emotional level? I'm just asking.

I think he's a very talented filmmaker, but I don't necessarily think any of his films (save for JB, which everyone has largely agreed is an exception to the majority of his work) seems really interested in breaking through to the emotional core of the characters.

His characters are more archetypal, aren't they? He uses -- and disposes of -- them at will to make clever, satiric cinematic references and comments on genre traditions.

comment #79

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

I just want to say that with all this pre-release backlash (did Transformers 2 even get this much shit? I skipped those threads), I'll probably end up lowering my expectations by the time I see it and actually enjoy the film for what it is. Which is probably a deeply flawed movie , but also the work of one of the few remaining American Hollywood auteurs still working today.

Kinda like Death Proof.

comment #80

WilliamShake2 says ...

Great essay Jeff.

Somewhere along the line between "Jackie Brown" and "Kill Bill," something very strange happened to Tarantino. I don't know if he lost his mind to drugs or was just so thrown off by some of the reactions to "Jackie Brown" but it's scary has fast he has fell from grace.

"Reservoir Dogs" and "Jackie Brown" are great films. "Pulp Fiction" is, in my humble opinion, the best movie of the 1990's. Those movies had more depth than most people give them credit for; the relationship between Keitel and Roth in Dogs; Grier and Forster in "Jackie Brown"; and Sam Jackson's final speech at the end of PF is still strangely moving.

Now he is stuck in a cartoon world and has made some crazy casting choices (let's all say it out loud-David Carradine was terrible in "Kill Bill"). Sometimes the brilliant QT comes through in his later movies but those small moments only make it that more frusturating.

I still remember reading, I believe in article that Jeff talked about, that right after 9/11 he had some sort of private screening of the greatest building explosions captured on film (or it may have just been disaster movies, I can't remember exactly). There is something sad about such a brilliant guy so stuck in his own movie world that he seems to have lost all touch with real life.

QT needs to get away from his YES men. Perhaps direct somebody else's script. I just refuse to believe he doesn't have any more great movies in him.

comment #81

Richard_Stone says ...

CitizenKaned, you are right that Tarantino never was about the psychology of his characters, breaking through their core, as you put it. Still, I was able to sustain my disbelief and beleive that what I was watching was real, mattered, mostly because of the more realistic acting style of most of the actors. It's particularly true in RD, PF is a little more jokey but it is still gritty and real-world. Kill Bill and DP are just a wank. However extraordinary some action cues may be, it's completely clear from frame 1 this is all a movie and these are actors on the screen and it's fake blood etc. that there is no tension, no thrill in the scene where Uma dispatches the Crazy 88. You just wait for the musical cue to be over and move on to the next set piece. Nothing matters.

Maybe if I were still an adolescent, I would enjoy these films more, but as a 30 years old guy, these films don't work for me anymore.

comment #82

mccool says ...

I think there's at least a little more to his movies than a lot of people give him credit for.

Cit --Never said he's incapable of metaphor or symbolism, just that he's not much interested.

Kenny -- you chastise Wells for trying to sound smart and get all academic on him, then use the insider-y phrase "the picture." But that's just habit, I'm sure, you're not trying to sound smart or in the know.

Anyway...

A lot of people say Tarantino has a devotion to the exploitation flicks he watched in his youth. But to me, there's something deeper, more disturbing. Death Proof was not simply an homage to those films, but a celebration of their content, their violence, and their abject hatred and objectification of women. Nothing epitomized that more than the tire face-chewing scene of the Ferlito character. Forget anything that came after with Dawson. That's hate. A gratuitous, gruesome death of someone who's just been set up as a sexy object of affection. Really sadistic. True pathos on display. One could argue that Kill Bill's female empowerment theme negates this .... or say that's simply the masochist in him.

Blah, the guy's living the dream. No one with the success he has achieved is remembered for their failures...as others have mentioned, he'll be remembered and revered decades from now for two groundbreaking contributions. Like Brando, Dali, Don Mattingly and so on, he'll be remembered for his peak output, not his slide, not his failures.

comment #83

DarthCorleone says ...

A while back QT was quoted as saying that he makes two kinds of films: the kind set in the universe of Pulp, Dogs, and Jackie, and the kind set in the universe of the movies that the characters in the first universe watch. Obviously, his second three films belong to that second group. Therefore, his filmography is 50/50.

Is it a trend that he's become increasingly referential and stuck in the second universe? Perhaps, but it is only 50/50, and I hope that's not the case. That statement from him acknowledges that at least at one point he was aware of the differences and wasn't simply spiraling into some sort of delusion as some have suggested. Yes, I want him to return to the first universe or perhaps do something completely out of the box as some have suggested above. I might not even enjoy Basterds, but there is room enough for him to make both types of films.

comment #84

Terry McCarty says ...

CiitizenKanedforChewingGum wrote:
He is a stubborn basterd. I think he needs to waaaay outside his comfort zone. Adapt a respected 19th century English novel. Draw a name out of a fucking hat. Thackeray? Fine. I'm not even joking.

I think we all know how THE AGE OF INNOCENCE turned out.

Maybe QT could repace Gore Verbinski on PIRATES 4 and submit to the discipline of having to please Jerry Bruckheimer, Dick Cook and Robert Iger plus the constrictions of a PG-13 rating.

comment #85

corey3rd says ...

Tarantino never recovered from the time he looked like a fool on Charlie Rose when he stuck around to talk the Christmas movies with a few critics. He was completely out of his element at the table. It was almost like from that moment on he decided he no longer needed to that smart of a filmmaker - just crank out the drive in stuff.

comment #86

Glenn Kenny says ...

McCool: You're calling me out for using the phrase "the picture" because it's too inside? That's fucking weak. I pretty much rotate "film," "movie" and "picture" in my writing because of a personal bedbug about word reps. I wasn't aware that using "picture" was Masonic code denoting that one was and asshole, but I'll take it under advisement. Another rule another headache.

I do love all the people on this thread who think that Tarantino could be saved if he only got some sensitivity training or something. It's not going to happen, incidentally. Also incidentally, Jeff's complaint about the Nazi-bashing scene is based on the extremely erroneous notion that the character written and directed by Tarantino and enacted by Richard Sammel has an autonomous existence outside of the movie which is, of course, not true.

One is reminded of a story Robert Altman told about his friend Dan Blocker. Altman and Blocker were sitting on a stoop or some such place and a little old lady came up to Blocker and began complaining that she didn't like the way things were being run on the Ponderosa. She was especially exercised by Hop Sing, because she hated Chinese people. Blocker patiently explained that he was not Hoss, but just an actor on the show, but she had none of it. The whole thing made Blocker and Altman lose the will to live.

Wells, similarly, sees the German character's dignity in the film as living somehow outside of Tarantino's conception, and is irked that Tarantino does not respect it more. Sit and consider for a moment just how much sense that interpretation makes.

comment #87

Gordie Lachance says ...

I had thought that Inglorius Basterds was going to be good.

But now that I see that Jeff is mounting one of his campaigns against it, followed by 80 some odd mostly negative (and some ridiculously long-winded) comments, I know this is probably going to be the best movie of the year.

comment #88

Glenn Kenny says ...

GL FTW.

comment #89

alynch says ...

I think we all know how THE AGE OF INNOCENCE turned out.

It turned out great.

comment #90

mccool says ...

Kenny ... you're right, it's not a big deal ... just struck me at that moment as pretentious ... at least you didn't say "pic." Just a peeve of mine ... I'm no one of influence in the motion picture industry, so, no need to fret

comment #91

Travis Crabtree says ...

I'm tired from reading all of these posts. I'll think I'll take a nap now.

comment #92

nightheat says ...

Wow, this is the perfect analysis and articulation of how downhill and out of touch Tarantino has become. Tarantino has a massive ego problem and has always felt he can do no wrong, and largely he's been getting away with it, because critics refuse to challenge him. How else could anyone believe that Death Proof is actually a good film? Finally with this film, some critics will take off the gloves, and hopefully this picture bombs.

Tarantino needs to get back in touch with reality.

comment #93

DeeZee says ...

BB: I think Jeff was expecting more nuance from the characters. And I think the issue with IB is not how "accurate" it is, but how it comes off like a propaganda movie endorsed by pro-torture Republicans. As for Pulp Fiction's success, that person's correct. If Miramaxe was handling PF on its own, and it didn't have big names, it would probably break even at best. Hell, True Romance had Christian Slater when his name meant something, and Brad Pitt, fresh off the success of Thelma and Louise, and it only did "ok".

Kane: "Slaughterhouse Five is better than Inglourious Basterds"

Yep.

"(which, according to him, already bombed six months ago)."

Exactly. We're just acknowledging it now, but IB bombed when he just dropped the script on our laps, hoping to get attention, rather than actually hyping it into something we must see. Never really a good plan. At least with Kill Bill, he got a lot of PR for it.

"Kill Bill is a Pro-Bush movie."

Yep. That's really why it was popular, because we "won" at the end against Bill, who was a cypher for Saddam.

"Robert De Niro and Bridget Fonda were "wasted" in Jackie Brown (nevermind that in the decade since, they have rarely been better)."

Um, no, Bobby was better in Ronin. In Jackie Brown, he played a guy you'd meet on a bus who's had a few benders. And JB was actually a step down for Fonda; but at least she had "A Simple Plan" on her resume before QT killed her career. Though I guess being a crack-whore and a metaphor for QT's relationship problems with Mira would be considered "nuanced" in your book.

"It's only okay to kill Nazis if it's in self-defense."

I meant in the context of the battlefield. Even in war, good strategists try to avoid as much pointless blood-shed on either side as possible. Didn't you ever hear of something called the rules of engagement?

But I'm guessing you're trying to twist my words to imply that, if they were running a death camp, then it'd be ok, because they weren't shooting at us. And that's not what I meant at all. We should rescue as many POWs as we can, too. I just don't feel that killing anyone who just happens to be patrolling, unless they're protecting something we need to get by, is the moral thing to do. Even assuming it was moral, it's a waste of resources and planning. And it's why our mission isn't accomplished in Iraq.

"A Clockwork Orange is "a crappy film.""

It's got some of the worst acting since that Hugo guy in V, actually. But it's easier to sell a b-movie as art when you make it as pretentious as possible.

"The script to IB is "too talky" (he would have liked more purdy pictures, too)."

Methinks you haven't read the script, or you would know what the fuck you're talking about before you insult me.

"It's impossible to like characters that are professional killers. Unless the film is directed by an Asian, then it becomes awesome."

The professional killers in Asian movies actually face consequences for their actions.

"For all the bile he spills against Quentin, the only American filmmakers he prefers are the Coen Brothers."

They're not the only filmmakers I prefer. They just have a better output, which is what you wanted.

"My Best Friend's Birthday counts as an official Tarantino film, even though it has never been released in theaters, VHS, or DVD, didn't even run 70 minutes, and only about half of that survives in any form today."

Actually, it did run 70 minutes until it got burned.

"Years later, The Blair Witch Project and My Big Fat Greek Wedding were pretty big indie hits, I couldn't really tell you specifically why."

Blair Witch did well, because it was a soft-R remake of Cannibal Holocaust, and because it ripped off those alien autopsy/MIB/X-Files marketing gimmicks. Greek Wedding did well, because it was another generic rom-com.

Victor: "Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction are modern classics. Pulp Fiction, in particular, is one of 'The Essentials' as TCM puts it."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HgbSAL8OKY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZKgptV4GmQ&feature=response_watch

"And then there's KILL BILL, a movie that has aged incredibly well"

For a bad remake.

"and is a lot more influential than the box office take suggests."

*sigh* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMlONL-BR2M

"it is better than 99.9 percent of the commercial escapist action fare Hollywood produces. "

No, it's just lazier than all the action movies. Better would imply there's something more going on than Boomer women throwing shouting matches at each other for three hours.

"30 years from now THAT is the movie 13 year old boys will be watching not Transformers 2."

Nope, they'll be watching Fist of Legend and Drunken Master II, when Harvey and Disney lose the rights.

Richard: That's because PF, RD, and JB were based on other people's concepts, rather than on QT's fan-fiction world.

mccool: No, he won't be remembered, because he's already been forgotten now. I keep saying it, but you watch his movies for the same reason people use Cliffnote versions of classroom books.

comment #94

Jonah says ...

DZ

Everything you said is wrong. No need in getting into the details. But everything you said is wrong. Everything.

comment #95

tfresca says ...

QT strikes me as a guy given too many resources and not enough guidance. I liken him to Prince, who as an artist was most successful when he was repressed by the man. Once he got the freedom to do what he wanted he became self-indulgent and his art suffered. It seems to happen to all these guys. They have no one to tap them on the shoulder bring them back to reality. If he wants to make this movie it's cool but you make it for $35 million with no names not $90 and Brad Pitt. All these guys want to be artists but still get their full quote.

comment #96

DeeZee says ...

The anti-Obama crowd plays the nazi card. http://www.adl.org/PresRele/HolNa_52/5584_52.htm
Mamet tackles Anne Frank.
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118007173.html?categoryid=13&cs=1
More working mother Uma action.
http://www.themoviebox.net/movies/2009/IJKLM/Motherhood/trailer.php
Zac Efron Orson Welles movie thingy.
http://www.themoviebox.net/movies/2009/IJKLM/Me-And-Orson-Welles/trailer.php

comment #97

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

"Like Brando, Dali, Don Mattingly and so on, he'll be remembered for his peak output, not his slide, not his failures."

Given the amount of vitriol -- some of it entirely justified, granted -- on movie sites/message boards for the man, I'm not sure I'd agree with this (no, D.Z. doesn't count...he's not a real person).

I remember when people started trashing Diablo Cody's dialogue when Juno came out, and someone said something to the effect of, "how come Tarantino doesn't get shit on like this?"

Well, he does. You're witnessing it right now.

Darth Corleone also makes a good point about the difference between Tarantino's "movie universe" (RD, PF, JB) and his "movie movie universe" (KB, DP, IB). There definitely seems to be a trend there, but I think it's just silly to say it's too late for him to have a career awakening or a latter-day cinematic renaissance. Dude's only 46.

Finally, that Age of Innocence rip was just weird. Are you for real?

If you want to tear into a Scorsese film without so much as an explanation, you damn well better choose better than that (Boxcar Bertha, and maybe New York, New York).

comment #98

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

The hell is wrong with you, Dee.

Seriously.

comment #99

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

Jesus Christ. I'll just stick to the blatantly factually inaccurate here, as opposed to the typical, meandering bullshit inaccurate which is everything this guy has ever written.

"but at least she had 'A Simple Plan' on her resume before QT killed her career."

Jackie Brown
US release (wide): 25 December 1997

A Simple Plan
US release (wide): 11 December 1998

Wrong.

"It's got some of the worst acting since that Hugo guy in V, actually."

A Clockwork Orange
US release (wide): 2 February 1972

V for Vendetta
US release (wide): 17 March 2006

Really wrong.

"Actually, it did run 70 minutes until it got burned."

My Best Friend's Birthday
Runtime: USA:69 min | 34 min (surviving fragments)

Exactly like I said the first time. Why did you try to correct me?

"I keep saying it, but you watch his movies for the same reason people use Cliffnote versions of classroom books."

People keep watching his movies to cram for their second period quiz on a Shakespeare play they skipped the night before?

It's hard to call a comparison factually wrong, but I'll do it. That's really the worst analogy I have ever fucking seen in my life.

It was also better the first time I saw it, in Ringo Lam's City on Fire.

I've been wondering for years why you even come to this site. I'm no closer to an answer to that mystery.

What do you get out of all the false, empty contradictions and the endless, off-topic spamming?

comment #100

DeeZee says ...

Kane: "Wrong."

I didn't mean that she did "A Simple Plan" before Jackie Brown. I was suggesting that it was her last decent movie before JB ruined her rep.

"Really wrong."

I love how you're so desperate, you're going after my comments in a literal sense. I meant that if you were going to come up with a timeline of pretentious bullshit in recent memory, you'd start with V, and go back to A Clockwork Orange.

"Exactly like I said the first time. Why did you try to correct me?"

Because it did run pretty close to 70 minutes.

"People keep watching his movies to cram for their second period quiz on a Shakespeare play they skipped the night before?"

Well, not exactly, but it's the same type of laziness at play.

comment #101

Jonah says ...

"Well, not exactly, but it's the same type of laziness at play."

When I watch a movie for the first time I am normally sitting on my ass, propping my feet up, and snacking on something or other.

Technically, that's being lazy no matter what the movie is.

"I didn't mean that she did "A Simple Plan" before Jackie Brown. I was suggesting that it was her last decent movie before JB ruined her rep. "

Do you have any proof that JB ruined her rep. Because it's currently sitting at 85% on rotten tomatoes. the domestic box office was more than triple the budget (leave p + a out of it, it's irrelevant), and one of the most influential movie critics of all time, Roger Ebert singled out her performance as being terrific.

A Simple Plan, which I also love, sits at 90% on Rotten Tomatoes. Not much better. And while A Simple Plan's budget was a few million more than Jackie Brown's, it made less than half the box office as JB.

Spin the facts, bitch.

comment #102

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

"I was suggesting that it was her last decent movie before JB ruined her rep."

If JB indeed did ruin her rep (it didn't), but following that batshit insane argument of yours, wouldn't it have done so by the time A Simple Plan was released NEARLY A YEAR LATER?

I think you're full of shit, you thought ASP came out earlier.

Kind of scary when I'm familiar enough with your style that I know the difference between your regular incoherence, and your fakey incoherence used to cover up the few mistakes you actually realize you make.

"I meant that if you were going to come up with a timeline of pretentious bullshit in recent memory, you'd start with V, and go back to A Clockwork Orange."

See, that's your regular incoherence right there.

So is that the entire "pretentious bullshit" timeline of yours? Alan Moore and Stanley Kubrick?

And how is 1971 "recent memory?"

Who cares.

So much time on your hands, and so few functioning brain cells.

comment #103

DeeZee says ...

Jonah:

"Technically, that's being lazy no matter what the movie is."

I'm referring to intellectual laziness.

"Do you have any proof that JB ruined her rep. Because it's currently sitting at 85% on rotten tomatoes."

Well, she did lead roles until JB, so...

"the domestic box office was more than triple the budget (leave p + a out of it, it's irrelevant)"

Even if I left P+A out, it's still a disappointment,
considering the mass exposure the guy was getting up until JB. Not to mention that it still never went wide, and even got kicked out after less than a month.

"Roger Ebert singled out her performance as being terrific. "

He also considered the performances in Spirits Within terrific. Sometimes he gets it wrong.

"And while A Simple Plan's budget was a few million more than Jackie Brown's, it made less than half the box office as JB."

Proves my point about ruining her career.

Kane:

"wouldn't it have done so by the time A Simple Plan was released NEARLY A YEAR LATER?"

How wide did A Simple Plan go again?

"So is that the entire "pretentious bullshit" timeline of yours? Alan Moore and Stanley Kubrick?"

No, just major blips. And replace Alan Moore with the Wachowskis.

"And how is 1971 "recent memory?"'

Recent memory for my generation. =p

comment #104

Travis Crabtree says ...

DeeZee Says....

From http://www.16beavergroup.org/mtarchive/archives/001536.php :

Nor is Godard especially flattering about the legions of admirers who make reference to him in their own movies or even name their companies after him. Quentin Tarantino, for example, calls his production company A Band Apart, in deference to Godard's 1964 classic, Bande [a] Part. "He says he admires me, but that's not true," Godard muses, then makes a cryptic remark about the torture and humiliation of prisoners by US guards in Iraq. "What is never said about Tarantino is that those prisons we are shown pictures of, where the torture is taking place, are called "reservoir dogs". I think the name is very appropriate."

"I hated it because it has the same attitude about those damn Nazis that the damn Nazis and the other anti-Semites had about the Jews in the lead-up to

"juicy creative imaginings (which he's obviously had a rollicking good time with in years past"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HgbSAL8OKY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZKgptV4GmQ&feature=response_watch

"Isn't this is what men of honor and bravery do in wartime -- i.e., refuse to help the enemy kill their fellow soldiers, even if it means their own death?"

Gawdamit, I really hate taking QT's side on this, but these *weren't* men of honor. At best, they were little Eichmanns. But yeah, torturing him for that shit is still immoral. [Not technically illegal at the time, since we didn't have the Geneva Conventions, but still immoral.] But anyway, Slaughter-House Five is a better movie to watch than IB.

Telemachos: I'm guessing the script had more lengthy bullshit references to movies and actors of the time than the movie, which is what Jeff really liked about the concept. And he was probably hoping for something closer to that vein than an reverse-Ilsa flick.

"Isn't the point of an exploitation film to wallow in senseless ridiculous violence?"

Perhaps, but when that violence is a little too close to home, it ends up coming off less entertaining than it normally would under different circumstances. Sort of like why I didn't like Kill Bill, because it seemed like a pro-Bush movie. [I.E. we get revenge on anything and anyone, just because we're wronged, even if we were once collaborators. And if anyone is pissed about it, then "Bring it On".]

"Yeah, BBWD nails it. I love early Tarantino -- there was a hunger and vibrancy there and despite a lot of homages/tips of the hat to his various genre loves he also spent the time really developing strong, interesting and dynamic characters."

You really should click on those Youtube links.

DeafBrown: No, it's going to be a bastard child even with the cult flick fans, because they don't have the patience to endure the pointless dialogue to get to the money shots.

Wells: Yep, QT is great at wasting talented actors with stock roles. Look at what he did with Sonny Chiba and Robert Deniro. [And I guess Bridget Fonda, too.] I actually almost wanted to see IB for Daniel Bruhl, too, but I know it's going to be a cameo at best.

Dan V.: Well, yeah. War has consequences, so you'd better get it right. You'd figure a guy born during the Vietnam era would know that better than anyone.

Nightwriter: "What happened to the guy who made Reservoir Dogs? OK, it was a violent genre film, but one that stood a genre on its head, at least."

Reservoir Dogs wasn't his idea. And you know what happened to him. He burned his bridges with Roger, and he he tried to hack it[pun intended] on his own, and the rest is history.

Milkman: I thought his work was predicated on you not having access to the original films, unless you wanted to go to places like Lazer Blazer.

"Kids who aren't even born yet are going to discover his movies, and in 15, 20 years, and he'll then be revered again, and the cycle will continue, for a long, long time."

Bullshit. His time is up, and he's the only one who doesn't know it yet. His whole career was built on the back of the VHS and LD era; and now it's completely irrelevant in the DVD/BD era. QT's like his buddy, Carradine. Once action fans found out about actual Asian martial artists like Jackie Chan, DC's work on Kung Fu became irrelevant.

"He made his first film almost 20 years ago."

Twenty-two, if you count "My Best Friend's Birthday".

"who plenty of people still hate and still think is an overrated hack: De Palma."

He definitely showed hack-work on the first Mission Impossible, but at least he was honest about Scarface being a remake.

Kane: Spielberg at least has Nazis done away with in self-defense.

"Indeed, why shouldn't you feel bad about the soldiers who are torturing the Nazis?"

Because it's sort of spitting in the face of the vets? Sort of like O'Reilly and Malmedy. Yeah, it's tough to like the pilots who dropped the A-Bomb or the ones who wiped out Dresden, but at least they did it for the sake of protecting us, rather than just to get their jollies off, like the soldiers in this flick.

"I didn't feel that great about what Alex DeLarge did to people (or what they did to him, later) in A Clockwork Orange, either. But I think it is a great film primarily because of -- not in spite of -- stirring these ambivalent feelings."

Actually, it's a crappy film, because it tones down the book. The guy's a fucking sociopath in the original story, but they just made him a delinquent in the movie. And it took away any sense of complexity of his character, too. I can totally get why Burgess hated the adaptation.

"What are the charges about the movie being "too talky" all about? Is it because it is a genre piece (aka WW2), and fails to deliver the minimum of epic setpieces that are promised to us in the text?"

Actually, IB is too talky in the script, too, which is why it fails as a whole.

"Woody Allen and Kevin Smith's movies are almost always "too talky" by half, but they're (usually) pretty good writers "

And QT's a horrible writer, since he's only good at copying-and-pasting.

"I think you're giving Richard Sammel a helluva lot of credit for acting out a character that was most likely written the way you describe him."

Nope, he's written as a throwaway.

"and he's practically worshiped at Cannes."

He was worshiped at Cannes until IB.

"I only had to watch it once to catch the running subtext of the feuding (divorced?) parents/broken household."

Except these parents are professional killers. So it's kind of tough to like either of them.

"Quentin knows what general audiences want out of genre pieces,"

If he did, then Grindhouse would have been a hit.

"but I think an equal part of him (the "art critic") totally wants to frustrate them and dash all expectations."

It's more like he wants to avoid actually doing anything which isn't safe.

"For his age, his body of work is still pretty impressive (name another American filmmaker from his generation that can compare."

I can name two: The Coens.

Emmanuel: I'm hoping to catch Ponyo.

Bosh: Mr. Furry's, er, Mr. Fox, is pretty underwhelming, too.

Anonymous: I haven't seen them myself, and they were probably over-hyped bullshit, but I'm assuming those films at least have some subtext?

BB: I think Jeff was expecting more nuance from the characters. And I think the issue with IB is not how "accurate" it is, but how it comes off like a propaganda movie endorsed by pro-torture Republicans. As for Pulp Fiction's success, that person's correct. If Miramaxe was handling PF on its own, and it didn't have big names, it would probably break even at best. Hell, True Romance had Christian Slater when his name meant something, and Brad Pitt, fresh off the success of Thelma and Louise, and it only did "ok".

Kane: "Slaughterhouse Five is better than Inglourious Basterds"

Yep.

"(which, according to him, already bombed six months ago)."

Exactly. We're just acknowledging it now, but IB bombed when he just dropped the script on our laps, hoping to get attention, rather than actually hyping it into something we must see. Never really a good plan. At least with Kill Bill, he got a lot of PR for it.

"Kill Bill is a Pro-Bush movie."

Yep. That's really why it was popular, because we "won" at the end against Bill, who was a cypher for Saddam.

"Robert De Niro and Bridget Fonda were "wasted" in Jackie Brown (nevermind that in the decade since, they have rarely been better)."

Um, no, Bobby was better in Ronin. In Jackie Brown, he played a guy you'd meet on a bus who's had a few benders. And JB was actually a step down for Fonda; but at least she had "A Simple Plan" on her resume before QT killed her career. Though I guess being a crack-whore and a metaphor for QT's relationship problems with Mira would be considered "nuanced" in your book.

"It's only okay to kill Nazis if it's in self-defense."

I meant in the context of the battlefield. Even in war, good strategists try to avoid as much pointless blood-shed on either side as possible. Didn't you ever hear of something called the rules of engagement?

But I'm guessing you're trying to twist my words to imply that, if they were running a death camp, then it'd be ok, because they weren't shooting at us. And that's not what I meant at all. We should rescue as many POWs as we can, too. I just don't feel that killing anyone who just happens to be patrolling, unless they're protecting something we need to get by, is the moral thing to do. Even assuming it was moral, it's a waste of resources and planning. And it's why our mission isn't accomplished in Iraq.

"A Clockwork Orange is "a crappy film.""

It's got some of the worst acting since that Hugo guy in V, actually. But it's easier to sell a b-movie as art when you make it as pretentious as possible.

"The script to IB is "too talky" (he would have liked more purdy pictures, too)."

Methinks you haven't read the script, or you would know what the fuck you're talking about before you insult me.

"It's impossible to like characters that are professional killers. Unless the film is directed by an Asian, then it becomes awesome."

The professional killers in Asian movies actually face consequences for their actions.

"For all the bile he spills against Quentin, the only American filmmakers he prefers are the Coen Brothers."

They're not the only filmmakers I prefer. They just have a better output, which is what you wanted.

"My Best Friend's Birthday counts as an official Tarantino film, even though it has never been released in theaters, VHS, or DVD, didn't even run 70 minutes, and only about half of that survives in any form today."

Actually, it did run 70 minutes until it got burned.

"Years later, The Blair Witch Project and My Big Fat Greek Wedding were pretty big indie hits, I couldn't really tell you specifically why."

Blair Witch did well, because it was a soft-R remake of Cannibal Holocaust, and because it ripped off those alien autopsy/MIB/X-Files marketing gimmicks. Greek Wedding did well, because it was another generic rom-com.

Victor: "Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction are modern classics. Pulp Fiction, in particular, is one of 'The Essentials' as TCM puts it."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HgbSAL8OKY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZKgptV4GmQ&feature=response_watch

"And then there's KILL BILL, a movie that has aged incredibly well"

For a bad remake.

"and is a lot more influential than the box office take suggests."

*sigh* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMlONL-BR2M

"it is better than 99.9 percent of the commercial escapist action fare Hollywood produces. "

No, it's just lazier than all the action movies. Better would imply there's something more going on than Boomer women throwing shouting matches at each other for three hours.

"30 years from now THAT is the movie 13 year old boys will be watching not Transformers 2."

Nope, they'll be watching Fist of Legend and Drunken Master II, when Harvey and Disney lose the rights.

Richard: That's because PF, RD, and JB were based on other people's concepts, rather than on QT's fan-fiction world.

mccool: No, he won't be remembered, because he's already been forgotten now. I keep saying it, but you watch his movies for the same reason people use Cliffnote versions of classroom books.

Kane: "Wrong."

I didn't mean that she did "A Simple Plan" before Jackie Brown. I was suggesting that it was her last decent movie before JB ruined her rep.

"Really wrong."

I love how you're so desperate, you're going after my comments in a literal sense. I meant that if you were going to come up with a timeline of pretentious bullshit in recent memory, you'd start with V, and go back to A Clockwork Orange.

"Exactly like I said the first time. Why did you try to correct me?"

Because it did run pretty close to 70 minutes.

"People keep watching his movies to cram for their second period quiz on a Shakespeare play they skipped the night before?"

Well, not exactly, but it's the same type of laziness at play."

Now who can argue with any of that?

comment #105

transmogrifier says ...

Man, you gotta love DZ. It takes commitment to be that wrong consistently in everything you write.

comment #106

Jonah says ...

"Well, she did lead roles until JB, so... "

So Jackie Brown preemptively ended her leading role career? So, the reason she had no lead roles lined up before Jackie Brown is that Hollywood knew it was going to be so bad (it wasn't) and bomb so horribly (it didn't) that they just then and there decided to stop giving her lead roles.

Right...

In the years previous to Jackie Brown, Fonda had the following on her resume:

Mr Jealousy
In the Gloaming
Touch
Grace of my Heart
City Hall
Balto
Rough Magic
Camilla
The Road to Welleville
(the movies I've listed to this point COMBINED didn't make as much as Jackie Brown did on its own)
It Could Happen to you (actually made less than JB)
Little Buddha
Point of No Return (also made less than JB)
Bodies Rest and Motion
Army of Darkness (also made far less than JB)
Singles (also made less than JB)
Leather Jackets

So really, other than a few movies made years before JB (Single White Female, Godfather III, Doc Hollywood) Jackie Brown has actually been her most successful film, financially. And based on that list above, I'd say it was rated higher by critics than most of her other work.

Case closed.

"Even if I left P+A out, it's still a disappointment,
considering the mass exposure the guy was getting up until JB. Not to mention that it still never went wide, and even got kicked out after less than a month. "

Made a lot more than A Simple Plan. Which means if either of them hurt her career, it was ASP.

"And while A Simple Plan's budget was a few million more than Jackie Brown's, it made less than half the box office as JB."

"Proves my point about ruining her career. "

No, it really doesn't. Fonda was never a huge movie star, son. If you take away a couple of films and change her last name she's Phoebe Cates with smaller tits.

comment #107

Sam7 says ...

Saying that an anti-Semite can be noble is like saying a rapist can be decent. Is Wells this ignorant or does he have a problem with Jews who aren't victims?

comment #108

Pomerania says ...

A really great piece Jeff, thank you. I don't have time to read all these posts so apologies if this is repetitious. But you put your finger on what bothers about Tarantino. For me, these have always been the problems. This guy was hailed so strongly in America because he appealed to the teenboy spirit that seems to dominate Hollywood. If you venture further afield, I think you'll find he is not seen as a great film maker. Great film makers engage with the big moral questions of life, whether that's in a light comedic way or through serious drama. No one who puts movies before real life and the pain of experience can do that. He'll be seen historically as a sideshow, a curio, a symptom of his era. He came of age in the 80s, and he embodies the callousness of that decade. Maybe I'm wrong, But I don't think so.

comment #109

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

I just have one final thought here:

if we can ever slide this through the Geneva conventions, D.Z. could be the most effective interrogation weapon the U.S. has ever seen. Even attempting a pleasant discourse would be enough to drive 99% of detainees to complete surrender of classified information, provided you could extract it before they were able to off themselves.

Trying to having a conversation with this guy -- on a subject he presumably likes (I guess?) -- is worse than waterboarding.

comment #110

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

*Trying to have

comment #111

Jonah says ...

Kane,

It's true. I think we all know by now that he doesn't believe a word of what he says. I only argue with him, and really try to nail down my points, to see how hard he'll work to bullshit, backtrack, cloud the issue, change the subject, etc...

comment #112

snoop says ...

I get what you're saying here, but honestly, what did you expect? Moral ambiguity is all over Tarantino's film, and you'd have to be kidding yourself to think he didn't intend for it to be in this scene. He's the director; do you really think he wasn't involved in (and had no idea about) the way Sammel played the scene? Come on.

Revenge is a terrible thing, even in an exploitation flick, which is why, as your last post illustrates--it only results in five minutes in heaven. In this film, the five minutes is drawn out, and I guess we don't see the aftermath, but that's what this story is about, and so people should just accept that.

I know in real life a few of the Basterds would get squemish and enter the after five minutes phase (or, frankly, never get there), but that's not what this film is. I mean, seriosuly, people root for Hannibal Lecter and he actually kills relatively innocent people, not Nazis. Hell in Man on Fire Denzel puts a bomb up a guys ass and blows him up, but it's ok I guess, because the guy isn't fleshed out and shown to have honor--he's jsut a bad guy. At least Tarintino has the balls to show there's two sides to the issue.

Did you have a similar problem when the cop died in Reservoir Dogs? I mean from a plot perspective, not a moral one. Clearly it was morally reprehensible, but it wasn't without meaning and purpose. Mr. Pink was insane, and Chris Penn was upset/unstable/freaking out. Similarly, the Basterds have to be seen as insane zealots to even seriously contemplate taking on such a mission to begin with, little lone to actually carry it out.

This movie isn't about remorse; it's about balls-out revenge. Watch the Neeson film if you want something more nuanced about remorse. I look forward to that film, because I appreciate that, but I have come to understand what Tarintino is and there's no point in complaining about it at this point. This is a story about those who revel in revenge, and they might as well enjoy those five mintues in heaven, or however long it last, because, it's like Newman's killer line in Road to Perdition: "This is the life we choose, the life we lead, and there is only one guarantee--none of us will see heaven.

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mccool says ...

This thread is PROOF that Jeff can stir up a great conversation without baiting people with screeds about fatties and conservatives. More of this, Jeff, less of that. Oh, sorry, forgot, I should reserve opinions like this for Coulter message boards...

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how come every time i try to post here, i get this 'script error' message?

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per host:

Jeff installed Quality Assurance Codes (QAC's) into the comments section.

Please reread what you wrote, it was probably boring and/or off topic. or you might be a fatty from Iowa.

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From Jeffrey Goldberg's article on "Inglourious Basterds" in The Atlantic:

"Holocaust movies always have Jews as victims," he said, plainly exasperated by Hollywood's lack of imagination. "We've seen that story before. I want to see something different. Let's see Germans who are scared of Jews. Let's not have everything build up to a big misery, let's actually take the fun of action-movie cinema and apply it to this situation."

Yes, Quentin Tarantino said that. Anyone still want to defend this schmuck? In the pantheon of Stupid Things Famous People Have Said, this is virtually nonpareil. Read the whole thing, there's just too much stupid to process. And also: Eli Roth is a complete dickhead.

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Welles, you're a massive hypocrite. Many of the arguments you make about IB being "morally disgusting" apply ten-fold to the last Rambo movie...a film you slurped up with a spoon and asked for more.

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This rumour started at Cannes when he showed IB. I got the info from Variety:

I'm just going to tell you what I heard from a source in Spain, who is a great admirer of Sharon Stone. (We get news where we can.) She will make a movie for Quentin Tarantino titled "Weekend." It will co-star Jessica Biel, Lucy Liu, Dennis Hopper and Michael Madsen and it will film in Serbia. My source says the only news item about this coming event has appeared on "Serbian and Croatian websites." Well, I've always heard that Sharon has a big fan following in Croatia!

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chris7crows says ...

The question I haven't seen answered yet is whether "Inglorious Basterds" is more or less an "aesthetic pollutant" than "Mr. & Mrs. Smith."

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DarthCorleone says ...

Isn't it possible that no single movie "ruined" Bridget Fonda's career? Couldn't it be that she turned 35 and received the same treatment that most "older" actresses receive in Hollywood at about that point? This whole argument about the box office gross for Jackie Brown and A Simple Plan and the assumption that any studio would base that data so much on her presence therein and not any number of other variables is fairly stupid.

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Josh Tate says ...

I saw Basterds awhile back and wasn't blown away by the "Basterds aspect of the film. What I loved, though, was the second narrative that focused on Shoshanna. Melanie Laurent was wonderful as the lone survivor of the opening scene. I'd be interested in seeing a Phantom Edit of Basterds that stripped out Pitt et al from the film.

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"Whoa, whoa, whoa. You must have been skimming my comment -- I don't blame you because I've been getting worked up in this thread and blathering on -- because you totally missed the context of what I was sayin', man."

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Some of you said that Kill Bill was innovative or that at least had a few tricks under its sleeve but for me that's not the case:
Kill Bill Vol. 1 didn't have a good story, we have seen it before, the problem is that the movie should have been only one and not two (You can clearly see Harvey Weinstein's influence in this decision). Because of this, Vol 1. is nothing but a well made Van Damme movie, complete with Robert Richardson photography straight from his work with Oliver Stone. Vol 2 is far better because the story isn't stalled by large action scenes.
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Steven Kar says ...

I did not know that but apparently there's a SPECIAL EDITION cut of PULP FICTION that is 168 minutes long. That's 14 minutes longer than the 154-minute THEATRICAL CUT.

Is that DVD still available? And if so, are the extra scenes incorporated into the movie or are they separate in the "Deleted Scenes" feature of the DVD?

Would someone please let me know.

Thanks guys.

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The Winchester says ...

Lste to the game on this one, but I felt that IB was Tarantino's riff on the good the bad and the ugly, with the cinema owner Dreyfus girl as "the good", the Landa character as "the bad" and the basterds as "the ugly". Ugly because they did terrible things, and Eli Roth is there worth the worst Boston accent I've heard from someone who's from there.

I see what Wells is saying, though, that the basterds are the ones who look "cool" for their brutality, but that's what Tarantino always does, making the unlikable cool. But I don't understand the blow up of such an inconsequential part of the movie. All you really get of the basterds in the movie is that one scene up above that's shown. The tavern scene and the end sequence have them inflicting brutality, but they also receive the retribution for their cruelty. The rest of the movie is long scenes of subtitled chit-chat focusing on characters that love movies and the sound of their own voices. (And there's one foot scene that I'm surprised all QT haters will instantly call him out on for his indulgences).

The marketing keeps showing Pitt, who's only in about a 3rd of the movie. Half the basterds don't have a line beyond "Yes Sir", including the guy from Freaks and Geeks. (I'm sure there's an even longer cut that does have more of them, though). The movie really seems to be about the "Jew Hunter" Landa, and other people who speak in foreign tongues. After the 2 hour mark, I forgot it was called Inglorious Basterds, because they're hardly in it.

One more thing, Pitt may bring them in the opening weekend, but it will most certainly have a Bruno effect once word spreads he's hardly in it and the audience will have to *gasp* read for 2/3 of it.

(And this is coming from someone who actually really enjoyed the flick, though I can't abide Death Proof aside from the last ten minutes).

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Jonah: "(the movies I've listed to this point COMBINED didn't make as much as Jackie Brown did on its own)"

They generally had more respect from the public than JB, though.

"And based on that list above, I'd say it was rated higher by critics than most of her other work. "

That had more to do with QT's name attached than whether or not it was a good movie.

"Made a lot more than A Simple Plan. Which means if either of them hurt her career, it was ASP."

Not really, since ASP should have been successful with the alleged good WOM and decent BO of JB.

"Fonda was never a huge movie star, son."

Not huge, but respectable.

"It's true. I think we all know by now that he doesn't believe a word of what he says."

Oh, I definitely believe QT is a plagiarist whose career is coming home to roost as a result of all the bridges he's burned.

Sam: I think the point Jeff is making is that he's been turned into an anti-Semite for the sake of justifying retributive violence. Or perhaps the 'Basterds validate whatever stereotypes he's been led to believe about American culture, rather than help the cause.

Pomerania: It's more like his fanbase consists of man-children too embarrassed to be associated with the Michael Bay crowd, but unwilling to admit that they still like low-budget variations of those films, preferring to call them "indie" instead, for the sake of hipster cred. =p

Craig: Um, no. Rambo tries to avoid needless violence in part IV. And he's hardly the poster boy for pacifism.

Darth: Her face and body were plastered on teaser posters around here. She clearly was being marketed as a selling point for the movie, but she didn't have shit to do in the flick, and ended up being its second biggest disappointment. [I'd say DeNiro was the bigger one.] They could've used any "dumb blonde" for the flick, and it would've went down the same.

And who the fuck wants to see a movie with Robert Forster as the male lead, while Sam Jackson gets relegated to a lowly gun-runner? And Pam Grier still ends up getting less screen time than both of them. Hell, in spite of being the female lead, the story isn't even about her character. It's about the criminal smuggling ring which just happens to involve her. QT clearly does not "get" why it's called "black"-sploitation.

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Mentats says ...

Your reviews for Inglorious have caused me to now avoid the film until DVD. I was pleasantly surprised to read about Sammel's short work in this film. He is a European actor I have always thought makes good work of what little he has been given. Especially in Basterds (from just watching the extended Interrogation scene clip that has been online for a month or two), I had a feeling he'd outshine Pitt and Roth. I've been saying for about a month now how his character seemed more honourable than the film's "heroes." A few of my friends agreed. Not to be the minority here, but he'd have been a more interesting character for me to watch during the film than half of the others, who by all indications, seem to be nothing more than sadistic monsters.

Thanks for the review, Jeff.

comment #130

halmasonberg says ...

I think some folks missed what this film was doing and rushed to judge. And I'm not a Tarantino fan. But this film has a lot going on. Here's a link to my thoughts and observations, which are too long to post here:

http://halmasonberg.wordpress.com/2009/09/05/tarantinos-inglourious-basterds-subverting-a-genre/

I will, however, print a comment made about Kubrick's A CLOCKWORK ORANGE recently that I think applies here. It is from an article on violence in films.

"Stanley Kubrick's A Clockwork Orange. The film also happens to be the most notoriously violent, so-called "morally objectionable" film of the last 50 years, but that is because the attitude of its hero is mistaken for the attitude of the film. What Kubrick offers in this film is a sophisticated examination of our relationship to image and to reality. The film is dangerous because Kubrick refuses to simplify this debate, or even to comment on it as it happens. Instead, he puts it all in the viewer's lap. The film gives us a morally empty hero and chronicles his actions with little overt affect, leaving the viewer to sort through the "meaning" of the events by examining his/her own reaction to them. This is very complex stuff, and the problem is that we as a culture do little to educate ourselves on how to read such visual material, so the film gets read as a celebration of violence and banned when it should be used to teach people about violence and its representation." -- Mike Miley, Teacher, Film Critic

I'm not suggesting Tarantino is a filmmaker on par with Kubrick, but there is a relevance here. If you have the inclination, read my article and I'd love to hear any feedback, positive or negative.

Keep up the good work!

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well i believe that this is the reaction Tarantino was looking for. I'm a Martian, I realize, and it's quite possible that most viewers of this film are going to be cackling and giggling along with Pitt and Roth, but maybe not.
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benw1 says ...

I saw Basterds awhile back and wasn't blown away by the "Basterds aspect of the film. What I loved, though, was the second narrative that focused on Shoshanna. Melanie Laurent was wonderful as the lone survivor of the opening scene. I'd be interested in seeing a Phantom Edit of Basterds that stripped out Pitt et al from the film. Writing services company provides custom term papers, research papers and essay writing services for all levels. We have been providing custom writing services fore more than 6 years now.

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ardit121 says ...

I watched the movie and i wouldnt say 'Jew Dogs'. They had a right to be agressive in the war! There nazzi nearly killed them all! Recenge in this sence is more than normal.

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Sukimoto says ...

Jeff Wells, this is the greatest piece you have written in a long time. Informative and insightful. This is one of those painful pans you rarely see--you want to be behind Tarantino here, but you just can't. Fascinating critique.

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gaintwee says ...

By this point in the movie I was hoping someone, anyone (German, American, falling rocks, an angry bird, whatever) would kill Jeremy Davies character. Christ he is awful. Online accounting degree AND biology degree AND Online International business degree
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farazakan says ...

Well i think that Tarantino has stuck his finger up his ass and given it a good sniff and smelled lilacs and gardenias so many times that he's lost his mind, which is to say he's lost whatever sense of proportion.
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I loved the film. It wasn't to be taken too seriousl I think - It kind of taps into what many of us Jew would like to have done if we were around.
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divs says ...

The prologue of the movie was good, however, the story did not appeal much to the audience. Not worth the hype, still can watch once.

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divs says ...

The prologue of the movie was good, however, the story did not appeal much to the audience. Not worth the hype, still can watch once.
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addisonberly says ...

I do love all the people on this thread who think that Tarantino could be saved if he only got some sensitivity training or something. It's not going to happen, incidentally. Also incidentally, Jeff's complaint about the Nazi-bashing scene is based on the extremely erroneous notion that the character written and directed by Tarantino and enacted by Richard Sammel has an autonomous existence outside of the movie which is, of course, not true.
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Martin Wilmer says ...

I think as far as the movie being 'insensitive' is concerned, I will agree with every point you have mentioned. But I think that's true for EVERY Tarantino movie, be in Pulp fiction or Kill Bill (both volumes). His movies are full of gore and show people being killed due to foolishness, brutal killings are his forte.

When it comes to 'acting' I think all actors played their roles brilliantly, they were supposed to do 'bad' winks and they did just that.

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