Choir Boys
There’s a riff about cops that I may have read in a Joseph Wambaugh book. It goes something like “poets, priests and politicians talk about what people might be, could be, should be, try to be. Cops deal with people as they are.” (If it’s not from Wambaugh, fine…whatever.) In this sense I feel a kinship with the law. No offense to 98% of HE talkbackers, but dealing with the talkback uglies really does affect your view of humanity to some degree. I’ve had the talkback thing going for almost four years now (it began in March ’06), and dealing with dozens of Mr. Hyde types, year in and year out, starts to affect your emotional makeup after a while.
Whatever you do Jeff, I believe most of us here will support you and we really despise the vile things that are being said around here. I am so sorry to see some people just taking your general personal! views way too personal. Keep up the good work!
Whatever you do Jeff, I believe most of us here will support you and we really despise the vile things that are being said around here. I am so sorry to see some people just taking your general personal! views way too personal. Keep up the good work!
Thanks for saying that, Spuij.
Thanks for saying that, Spuij.
It’s funny, the time isn’t a constant, the people aren’t a constant, it sounds like there is a constant here, and it’s you. Maybe in a few years, you’ll start to realize that and look inward at what you’ve been doing to inspire the responses that you get that you don’t like and that you complain about constantly — yet never do anything to change.
It’s funny, the time isn’t a constant, the people aren’t a constant, it sounds like there is a constant here, and it’s you. Maybe in a few years, you’ll start to realize that and look inward at what you’ve been doing to inspire the responses that you get that you don’t like and that you complain about constantly — yet never do anything to change.
Typical admonishment from GORDN27 –the new Jeff McMahon. (Have you guys met?)
Typical admonishment from GORDN27 –the new Jeff McMahon. (Have you guys met?)
The hostility projected by your average run-of-the-mill troll/flamer is kinda baffling, don’t you think? It can be said that anonymity of the TalkBacks emboldens an escalating level of rancor and startling immaturity. It goes beyond mere post-adolescent contrarianism, though, and may have something more to do with the powerlessness they have over protecting a website over which they perceive a possessive entitlement.
It’s YOUR website, Jeff; your name is on the masthead. They feel like it is THEIRS and have the added advantage of hiding behind a mask of nom de plumes for exercising their snark – no penalties attached (oh, banishment has no teeth if you just re-enlist under a new name).
The internets, sadly, do not promote elevated discourse largely because of this wall of non-consequential anonymity. I get the vibe that most writers don’t seek spirited exchange anyway, but crave validation.
The hostility projected by your average run-of-the-mill troll/flamer is kinda baffling, don’t you think? It can be said that anonymity of the TalkBacks emboldens an escalating level of rancor and startling immaturity. It goes beyond mere post-adolescent contrarianism, though, and may have something more to do with the powerlessness they have over protecting a website over which they perceive a possessive entitlement.
It’s YOUR website, Jeff; your name is on the masthead. They feel like it is THEIRS and have the added advantage of hiding behind a mask of nom de plumes for exercising their snark – no penalties attached (oh, banishment has no teeth if you just re-enlist under a new name).
The internets, sadly, do not promote elevated discourse largely because of this wall of non-consequential anonymity. I get the vibe that most writers don’t seek spirited exchange anyway, but crave validation.
is that some 1920′s pop culture reference I should be catching? You know, from when you were a young adult?
Jeff, I’ve seen you post things from actual friends of yours who said exactly what I said — you’ve created a culture here on your website that is ugly, and a lot of people avoid dealing with it, and the people that do deal with it deal with it on the ugly terms that you present. It really is that simple. I’m telling you this because I KNOW you won’t change, and I enjoy laughing at ou.
is that some 1920′s pop culture reference I should be catching? You know, from when you were a young adult?
Jeff, I’ve seen you post things from actual friends of yours who said exactly what I said — you’ve created a culture here on your website that is ugly, and a lot of people avoid dealing with it, and the people that do deal with it deal with it on the ugly terms that you present. It really is that simple. I’m telling you this because I KNOW you won’t change, and I enjoy laughing at ou.
“I get the vibe that most writers don’t seek spirited exchange anyway, but crave validation.”
Wait, you’re saying that as something which is pro-Jeff?
Oh lord, the only thing funnier than Jeff complaining about the environment he created is watching people kiss his ass as if he’s important.
“I get the vibe that most writers don’t seek spirited exchange anyway, but crave validation.”
Wait, you’re saying that as something which is pro-Jeff?
Oh lord, the only thing funnier than Jeff complaining about the environment he created is watching people kiss his ass as if he’s important.
Hollywood Elsewhere is the only film related blog I ever bother to read and you and Elvis Mitchell are the only critics whose opinions I respect. Despite all the shit you get, I think it’s important to state that you’re one of the best at what you do. Kudos, sir, and keep up the good work.
Hollywood Elsewhere is the only film related blog I ever bother to read and you and Elvis Mitchell are the only critics whose opinions I respect. Despite all the shit you get, I think it’s important to state that you’re one of the best at what you do. Kudos, sir, and keep up the good work.
Keep up the good work. No one listens to Gordo anyways. His ego is astounding.
Keep up the good work. No one listens to Gordo anyways. His ego is astounding.
What I like about Jeff is that he has a ‘voice’ – you may like it or dislike it, but you can’t ignore it. Hollywood Elsewhere is my favourite blog on the net. Keep it up Jeff and don’t let the bastards get you down.
What I like about Jeff is that he has a ‘voice’ – you may like it or dislike it, but you can’t ignore it. Hollywood Elsewhere is my favourite blog on the net. Keep it up Jeff and don’t let the bastards get you down.
PS. I’m still laughing at Jeff’s ‘Avatar Blues’ piece about the pizza guy.
PS. I’m still laughing at Jeff’s ‘Avatar Blues’ piece about the pizza guy.
“His ego is astounding. ”
Sounds like *somebody* is listening to me, then…
“His ego is astounding. ”
Sounds like *somebody* is listening to me, then…
Jeff, you’re nuts. This blog has one of the best talkback sections on the internet, especially for movie shit. I waste a lot of time on a lot of different blogs, but only here do I actually remember the commenters. LexG, MilkMan, George Prager, even the never ending Gordon/DZ war. I usually just skim Jeff’s rantings and go straight to people’s reactions. I graduated film school, and yet these guys drop references to movies I’ve never heard of, and my Netflix queue is 10x stronger for it.
And here Jeff is again bitching about the single greatest strength of his website. You want to see real internet? Spend a little time reading the IMDb boards, or the aspberger’s patrol over at AICN. Hell, try 30 seconds of browsing 4chan. This place is an oasis of rational but biting (and often times hilarious) discourse in a sea of raging, crude insanity.
You’re so angry at the world, man. I would give anything to be a full time movie blogger, but you’re so busy screaming about people that disagree with you, you can’t see how blessed you are. Relax. Have a couple Miller Chills and watch High Noon again or something.
Jeff, you’re nuts. This blog has one of the best talkback sections on the internet, especially for movie shit. I waste a lot of time on a lot of different blogs, but only here do I actually remember the commenters. LexG, MilkMan, George Prager, even the never ending Gordon/DZ war. I usually just skim Jeff’s rantings and go straight to people’s reactions. I graduated film school, and yet these guys drop references to movies I’ve never heard of, and my Netflix queue is 10x stronger for it.
And here Jeff is again bitching about the single greatest strength of his website. You want to see real internet? Spend a little time reading the IMDb boards, or the aspberger’s patrol over at AICN. Hell, try 30 seconds of browsing 4chan. This place is an oasis of rational but biting (and often times hilarious) discourse in a sea of raging, crude insanity.
You’re so angry at the world, man. I would give anything to be a full time movie blogger, but you’re so busy screaming about people that disagree with you, you can’t see how blessed you are. Relax. Have a couple Miller Chills and watch High Noon again or something.
hey, this guy gets it.
hey, this guy gets it.
I really don’t think that Jeff has a a problem with people who disagree with him. It’s the assholes who consistently make a point of insulting Jeff and even sometimes his kids.
The talkbacks here can be pretty good, often very funny, but there’s always one or two kooks that take things way too seriously.
I really don’t think that Jeff has a a problem with people who disagree with him. It’s the assholes who consistently make a point of insulting Jeff and even sometimes his kids.
The talkbacks here can be pretty good, often very funny, but there’s always one or two kooks that take things way too seriously.
Jeff — believe it or not, quit staring has it right in my view. Aside from the constant barrage of DZ-idiocy — which is usually refuted on the spot (even though the insanity is self-evident) — this is pretty much the gold standard of internet-level discourse, esp. regarding movies.
Have you ever bounced on over to Yahoo, IMDb, or — God help you — AICN (a place whose continual slide into complete irrelevancy is still vaguely depressing as I spent a good chunk of my formative years growing up discussing movies there) for a quick comparative study? Your “contributors” come out on top by a country mile, my friend, and it’s not even close.
Your writing has a strong voice and reveals quirky, non-conformist sensibilities (I don’t mean that as a diss, either). It should be no surprise that you draw readers who have similarly strong personalities. You certainly can’t expect these people to agree with you on everything, or be quiet about doing so.
You may agonize over people taking different political stands than you, calling you out when you change your opinion of a film seemingly out of the blue, or say silly shit (and yes, it does happen), but by and large these people are expressing their true feelings, and posting in a coherent and legible way.
To draw a quote from Martha Stewart — who I promise to never invoke here again — “it’s a good thing.”
Jeff — believe it or not, quit staring has it right in my view. Aside from the constant barrage of DZ-idiocy — which is usually refuted on the spot (even though the insanity is self-evident) — this is pretty much the gold standard of internet-level discourse, esp. regarding movies.
Have you ever bounced on over to Yahoo, IMDb, or — God help you — AICN (a place whose continual slide into complete irrelevancy is still vaguely depressing as I spent a good chunk of my formative years growing up discussing movies there) for a quick comparative study? Your “contributors” come out on top by a country mile, my friend, and it’s not even close.
Your writing has a strong voice and reveals quirky, non-conformist sensibilities (I don’t mean that as a diss, either). It should be no surprise that you draw readers who have similarly strong personalities. You certainly can’t expect these people to agree with you on everything, or be quiet about doing so.
You may agonize over people taking different political stands than you, calling you out when you change your opinion of a film seemingly out of the blue, or say silly shit (and yes, it does happen), but by and large these people are expressing their true feelings, and posting in a coherent and legible way.
To draw a quote from Martha Stewart — who I promise to never invoke here again — “it’s a good thing.”
Jeff I worked in a grocery store. You haven’t seen ugly until you’ve seen an old man go into a warehouse, shit on the floor, and then wipe himself with an employee’s jacket.
This talkback thing you’re botching about is nothing in comparison.
Jeff I worked in a grocery store. You haven’t seen ugly until you’ve seen an old man go into a warehouse, shit on the floor, and then wipe himself with an employee’s jacket.
This talkback thing you’re botching about is nothing in comparison.
Oops … I meant bitching, of course. Damned iPhone!!
Oops … I meant bitching, of course. Damned iPhone!!
I think what Jeff is saying is that even if the remarks are part of what makes his site interesting, and even if they are at a higher level than elsewhere on the net, it’s hard to always be under the magnifying glass, every word pored over and remarked on by the snarling hyenas. Honestly, I can see how that would not only wear on him, but actually begin to affect his life in a profound way. The skin has to keep getting thicker and thicker. It’s true that Jeff’s blog is one of the best anywhere, movie blog or otherwise, but he’s paying the price. It’s a kind of enslavement.
I think what Jeff is saying is that even if the remarks are part of what makes his site interesting, and even if they are at a higher level than elsewhere on the net, it’s hard to always be under the magnifying glass, every word pored over and remarked on by the snarling hyenas. Honestly, I can see how that would not only wear on him, but actually begin to affect his life in a profound way. The skin has to keep getting thicker and thicker. It’s true that Jeff’s blog is one of the best anywhere, movie blog or otherwise, but he’s paying the price. It’s a kind of enslavement.
Gordo is like a lifeguard with delusions of grandeur…he is always up there in his high chair, blowing the whistle, correcting, scolding. There’s one in the comments section of every popular site.
Jeff, I greatly enjoy your festival dispatches, reviews, old movie recommendations, photos, and much more. Thanks for soldiering on, in spite of the trolls.
Gordo is like a lifeguard with delusions of grandeur…he is always up there in his high chair, blowing the whistle, correcting, scolding. There’s one in the comments section of every popular site.
Jeff, I greatly enjoy your festival dispatches, reviews, old movie recommendations, photos, and much more. Thanks for soldiering on, in spite of the trolls.
Jeff,
While I love your writing/insight and your HE has become part of my daily fabric (like many here I check it at least 6 times a day), I have found your comments section to be as predictable as the plot of a mainstream summer tentpole. We know that no matter what you write, people are going to highjack your post and take your story down a rathole. I can only imagine what your peers say to you or how they snicker about the tone of the dialog. It has to impact your work and more important, your brand. Personally I would shut it down for a bit. You know the number of eyeballs your site gets, they must vastly overshadow the random 35 comments you get for a single topic. Shut it down, let everyone know what they are missing, and bring it back whenever you want. Too much faceless snark is tainting your brand brother.
Jeff,
While I love your writing/insight and your HE has become part of my daily fabric (like many here I check it at least 6 times a day), I have found your comments section to be as predictable as the plot of a mainstream summer tentpole. We know that no matter what you write, people are going to highjack your post and take your story down a rathole. I can only imagine what your peers say to you or how they snicker about the tone of the dialog. It has to impact your work and more important, your brand. Personally I would shut it down for a bit. You know the number of eyeballs your site gets, they must vastly overshadow the random 35 comments you get for a single topic. Shut it down, let everyone know what they are missing, and bring it back whenever you want. Too much faceless snark is tainting your brand brother.
JW, to be practical in response, what could we do in talkbacks that would be better? Seriously. Suggestions?
It’s an addictive site and talking back is great fun. You’ve got big cajones to put yourself out here personally and that’s what makes it vital and alive, IMO. I don’t know what might make it more pleasant for you. Maybe you shouldn’t read the talkbacks, but in another sense you’re like the good friend we have fun trying to match wits with. If it was just pleasantries I think it would be boring and not worth the time, especially because after all, movies are not all that interesting. I’d say don’t worry, but I know the negativity would bother me, too. At least it makes money, no?
JW, to be practical in response, what could we do in talkbacks that would be better? Seriously. Suggestions?
It’s an addictive site and talking back is great fun. You’ve got big cajones to put yourself out here personally and that’s what makes it vital and alive, IMO. I don’t know what might make it more pleasant for you. Maybe you shouldn’t read the talkbacks, but in another sense you’re like the good friend we have fun trying to match wits with. If it was just pleasantries I think it would be boring and not worth the time, especially because after all, movies are not all that interesting. I’d say don’t worry, but I know the negativity would bother me, too. At least it makes money, no?
I have 1 suggestion. Not spamming threads with multiple, irrelevant links. That’s a start.
I have 1 suggestion. Not spamming threads with multiple, irrelevant links. That’s a start.
I speak as sincerely as Marley’s ghost spoke to Scrooge, which is a reasonable description of the form “Ronald McFirbank.”
The problem with the talkbacks is not that there are some jerks on it, because you had the same problem when the talkbacks were much livelier and full of knowledge and interesting people.
The problem is that you simply are not a happy warrior. There are people who can get up every day and spar with the other side and take joy in the battle The late Mgmax, for instance, relished the swashbuckling fun of posing as an Ed Anger-esque rightwinger (an exaggeration, clearly, if not a complete fabrication) countering whatever dubious factoids D.Z. had pulled out of his ass (who can forget him arguing the case for Enron?) and watching Prager blow his spout like Monstro the Whale. If he had taken it seriously, the contumely with which he was vastly outnumbered would have been soul-destroying; only as abstract sport was being a single long-nosed Cyrano in a mob of Frenchmen endurable.
But that is not your nature, obviously. You have to hate the other side; you have to needle them as haters, thugs, gorillas, when you’re the one using your primary position to go after them in bold type at the top of a post. You have to sink to the lowest view of your opponent in any dispute, whether it’s accusing teabaggers of being like the crazy guy in Austin or calling those who find Polanski contemptible contemptible.
The problem with this is not only that it’s unpersuasive, but that it weeds out the interesting commenters and leaves only the obsessed and the perverse; who would want to engage you seriously at this point on the subject of Polanski, criminal or artiste? The only one willing to meet you at your level is the guy who wants to talk about cum dribbling from sodomized asses.
So I urge you to consider abandoning the comment threads, and going back to the system you had many years and URLs ago, where you’d publish reader emails but not let the threads run wild. I actually do agree with the notion that these comment threads, such as they are, are 100 times better than most out there, but unpleasantness only spawns more unpleasantness on all sides, and you are clearly more trapped in the cycle than anyone.
Now, maybe you figure it’s enough of a traffic driver that you need to keep it. Fine. But then shake it up, break the cycle of ugliness, but changing formats. There are a million ways to interact with your readers, and changing the format will change the behavior on both sides, at least for a while.
Peace.
Disagree with Brendan’s post 100%. Shut it down for awhile? That’s a definite no-no. Most of the non die-hards who have HE bookmarked, if a site is down and/or not updated for even a small amount of time, it gets kicked out of their daily rotation. That means less web hits. A lot less. BAD idea.
As for the comments section being “predictable,” uhhhhhh…..have you ever read a Lex or Milkman post on here?
I read the site because Wells knows something about movies and is a great writer. Simple, end of story. I read the comments because I’m curious what other people think, and it usually turns out to be a bunch of dopes trying to grab some attention or spar with Jeff. I can honestly say that the whole thing baffles me. The lack of civility on a lot of the comments is astounding, and it always seems to be justified with some sort of petty “he started it” attitude.
I’d much prefer an atmosphere that was a little more community of common interests with a difference of opinion rather than a barrage of combative folks just looking for something to yell about, and worst of all try and get under the skin of the host like an unruly high school brat. I’m pretty sure the majority of the people who read this site would agree.
Jeff, I don’t know how you do it. I know a little controversy is good for business, but some of these people are real motherfuckers. I’d be bouncing them left and right rather than put up with up. Life’s too short and your too good of a writer for such trivial nonsense.
Don’t change a thing on what you say about movies, but try to be a little more positive about people in general, and it will be reciprocated back to you. Too many posts about the “Eloi” (or haters, thugs, gorillas) and I get the feeling you dislike most of humanity, but then when you actually travel, you seem to encounter more good people than bad.
The biggest problem with this site and Wells is that, honestly, he can’t take the heat. when someone calls him on his (often) hypocritical, superficial, shallow views, then, they get banned, which I will be fo even posting this. Until Mr. Wells can take the heat, he’ll continue to take the hits.
CitizenGum – As I stated I read everyday and while the topics are not predictable, the outcomes are. Jeff had a vibrant site (or sites) for years before he had the comments. Has HE changed? Not really. The tone of the community has. Are you going to tell me Jeff does not get crap from the other Oscar Bloggers about this madness? While Jeff intentially is more then just an Oscar Blogger, his community is much different the Polands or Kris Tarps. I can only imagine this impacts him when he’s sporting the black cowboy hat, doing the Festival thing with the other scribes. Disagree all you want, but Jeff brought this up for a reason, I think a part of him wants done with it.
Now pardon me, I need to catch up on the weekends comments of Lex desire to shed 100 lbs and click on all 634 links DZ posted.
Brendan — Have you ever heard the expression, “your greatest weakness is also your greatest strength?” I think it applies here. Yeah Poland and Tapley don’t really get lambasted on a daily basis (which — let’s face it — Wells usually deserves, anyway), but they don’t get the sort of eclectic, weirdly-awesome readership JW has, either.
Honestly, I think if anyone is jealous of the attention, it’s the other bloggers, not Wells.
Note to self: Take act over to Brendan Noone’s blog.
Let’s back up here a sec… Jeff said his spiel doesn’t apply to 98% of his commenters, but to the haters and “uglies.” I have to believe he’s talking more about the folks like that charmer who’s crashed every thread with that copied-and-pasted Polanski rant, or maybe that “industry accountant” who’s re-registered under two dozen different names to attack JW personally.
I’m sure he isn’t delighted by each and every flight of fancy from me, or every right-wing T-points rebuttal to his threads, but I think on occasion Jeff enjoys and maybe even cherishes the regulars who clock in to work their little corner of blog performance-art… probably even D.Z.
The loyalty of the little dysfunctional ‘community’ that’s built over time here is a GOOD thing; Obviously we all come for Wells’ latest gem that couldn’t be replicated ANYWHERE else: of course the cowboy hat or the HPE, but I’m also thinking of riotous throwaways like the time he got locked out of his pad and wanted to dangle down from the balcony of “the fat guy upstairs.” Or titling a thread about his Christmas vacation “Annual Suffering.” That’s the kind of stuff we all come back for, and it’s great to see the reactions it elicits, pro or con.
Even Ebert’s blog has comments, comments that are all over the map and sometimes closer to IMDB message board lunacy than the film-literate likes we get here. Does anyone think less of EBERT as a film critic because moviecock69 logs in on HIS blog to say “dat revue suked, daybraker wuz sick as fuck lol.” Of COURSE not.
And, shit, just to toot my own horn, my little asides here and on Poland’s blog that Brendan apparently dislikes so much have been quoted in VANITY FAIR, HUFFPO, Defamer, etc… That’s gotta bring new readers or at least eyeballs checking out Wells’ awesome blog.
And as one final aside, NOBODY is more of an Internet schoolmarm and world-class tool than Jeff McMahon.
The comments are a huge reason I read this site several times a day.
In fairness, they only really devolve into ugliness when the topic is controversial or deliberately provocative from Wells. How many times do reviews of movies get hijacked? Not many. It’s the Polanski/teabagger/fat threads that get personal and insulting. If you don’t want to deal with that, instead of deleting the comments just dial down the purposely angry articles.
Movie threads are generally well-behaved. Think of that epic thread from a week or so ago with everyone discussing their formative movie summers. It was great. And I’m sure a full review of Shutter Island would provoke a good amount of on-topic posts, rather than a rant about teabaggers.
I read a few too many movie blogs than I’d care to admit, and the comment threads on HE are more entertaining, informative, humorous, unpredictable and – MOST importantly – constantly rewarding of repeat visits than any other site I visit. I bookmark threads I haven’t contributed to just because I know they’ll heat up between morning and night and I don’t want to miss anything.
Brendan’s wrong, Jeff. Like it or not, HE, AND its comment threads – these things ARE your brand. You write a movie site with a kickass interaction with your readers. It’s ugly sometimes and I’ve certainly read some of the brutality the more moronic folks have spewed, but I think in general the spirit and tenor of the discussion here is for debate, not for ugliness. You can’t really expect to introduce debatable subjects and then not expect the smart and impassioned people you’ve invited here to ignore it. Passion begets passion.
Most movie sites post stories, accept comments, and everyone pats the writer and themselves on the backs. What a snooze. Keep it alive, keep it flaming, keep it exciting. Purge when you want to. Indulge DZ for whatever reason you’re doing it, even if it confounds and amazes. I’ll keep coming back and reading late into the night.
Lex – your amusing rants bring an unintentional smile to my face at least three times a day, I would be lost without you (btw – your skins seems as thin as Jeff today). But wasn’t this about Jeff’s well being and emotional state while having to play “cop” with that 2%. Is 2% really going to shut down his comments or could it be something else? Last year during the election it had to be 20% and he never hinted at it having this type of an impact. That is what I was speaking to.
And Lex how could I be speakng of you when I wrote about faceless snark? You are like the Grand Poobah of this crazy thing. You get comment shout out’s from the MSM thanks to Jeff’s world. You are the first post on nearly every thread. You are not the so called rathole. I just think Jeff is thinkig about changing things more then he is leading on.
I’m pretty much with Burbanked on this. I learn a lot from this site; you have lots of knowledgeable contributors, and that’s why I bother. Most of your correspondents are funny and interesting. I learned years ago on Usenet to just block or ignore the trolls.
It’s your site. Run it as you wish. Isn’t that what you’ve been doing?
Somebody who dishes it out like you do, Wells, oughta be able to take it.
You’re the one who sets the tone around here.
If you really want this site to stand out from just about everything else on the internet, and really separate the sheep from the goats, challenge people to sign their posts with – gasp – their names.
Cops deal with people as they are.
lol
I lived with a cop for 20 years. I grew up going to parties where everyone there was either a cop or related to one. This is why I feel very comfortable calling this quote complete bullshit.
quite the contrary, cops rarely if ever deal with people as they are.
Nothing will change people’s behavior quite like a cop walking into a room. He could be off duty and even those who aren’t doing anything wrong will stiffen up. (lifetime of observation in this phenomenon)
Everyone puts up a front to a cop. Consequently, a common problem for cops is to withdraw into their own circles where people don’t change when they come around. They isolate themselves in closed groups where they tell each-other stories about what animals most people are and most times come to the conclusion that humans are barely civilized creatures that could turn on each-other at any moment and must be heavily regulated by John Q Law, less they tear each-other to shreds.
Over time they become distrustful and heavily cynical of almost all human behavior. Pretty typical I found.
They do it as a protection mechanism because they are so cut off from how people normally behave and they resent it.
The Cops who bought that “we deal with people as they are” nonsense are the one’s who tended to be the biggest hard assed, you’d never want to get pulled over by them, bastards.
These were the Us vs them cops.
Cops deal with people in heightened emotional states of all kinds, but rarely people when they are “themselves” Unless who you are is defined by how you behave at your worst and/or most vulnerable.
And if you believe that, I really do pity you. Cause I’ve seen where that thinking leads.
As far as the talk-backers. Think about how you respond to something you truly hate. (fatties, righties whatever)
Compare it against the talk-backers who attack what they hate. (usually you attacking fatties righties, again, whatever)
You’ll see a tonal match.
Weather you want to admit it or not, everyone is here is playing follow the leader.
All that said. Still love the site.
Your flaws make you fun to laugh at, and with.
stop fretting so much and keep being you baby!
What I like about Jeff is that he has a ‘voice’ – you may like it or dislike it, but you can’t ignore it. Hollywood Elsewhere is my favourite blog on the net. Keep it up Jeff and don’t let the bastards get you down.
PS. I’m still laughing at Jeff’s ‘Avatar Blues’ piece about the pizza guy.
Jeff, Buddy- people come here for your unique, whacked world view about films. I go to very few other places. I rarely read the comments unless it is a subject I relate to. WHO CARES what an anonymous, unloved poster actually says? We take the time to see what YOU said. Someone like JeffMcM who cleans out public lavs with his tongue- screw his opinion. These are people desperately trying to matter while not doing anything. They can mock on me but they don’t make ANY films. They can comment about you but listen, Jeff, they don’t have a blog that pays their way to endless festivals. THEY COULD but they are lazy or stupid or both. And this eats them alive at night. Don’t play that. Fuck the commenters, keep being you bro.
Wow, that was actually a pretty perceptive comment by Don Murphy — at least until the fourth sentence when he reverted to his usual “fuck the entire world that isn’t me” shtick. But I guess that’s just “you being you,” eh bro?
Btw, I’m quite alright being a nobody if it means I don’t “make” shit like Transformers 3. Btw, is Michael Bay aware that you “made” the first two films in that series?
Wow, that was actually a pretty perceptive comment by Don Murphy — at least until the fourth sentence when he reverted to his usual “fuck the entire world that isn’t me” shtick. But I guess that’s just “you being you,” eh bro?
Btw, I’m quite alright being a nobody if it means I don’t “make” shit like Transformers 3. Btw, is Michael Bay aware that you “made” the first two films in that series?
I’m going to say something I rarely get to say — I think I agree completely with Ron’s post.
I’m going to say something I rarely get to say — I think I agree completely with Ron’s post.
Can I ask, who is this Jeff McM who is getting repeatedly referenced?
Can I ask, who is this Jeff McM who is getting repeatedly referenced?
Is Ron Don? You just couldn’t bring yourself could you?
Jeff McM, like Uncle Milty and the rest, is an unemployed film student/outhouse attendant who once posted here hourly. In between posting here he posted at Poland’s site. And pretty much anywhere that would have him. His posts were contrarian in the extreme, like out of that Monty Python argument clinic sketch. He wasn’t entertaining like Lex or consistently ignorable like DZ… he would vehemently make a stupid opinion, and when called on it, say he never said any such thing. I THINK Wells banned him for acts against sanity but I cannot be sure. He is just the most remembered anonymous loser among a large group of anonymous losers.
Is Ron Don? You just couldn’t bring yourself could you?
Jeff McM, like Uncle Milty and the rest, is an unemployed film student/outhouse attendant who once posted here hourly. In between posting here he posted at Poland’s site. And pretty much anywhere that would have him. His posts were contrarian in the extreme, like out of that Monty Python argument clinic sketch. He wasn’t entertaining like Lex or consistently ignorable like DZ… he would vehemently make a stupid opinion, and when called on it, say he never said any such thing. I THINK Wells banned him for acts against sanity but I cannot be sure. He is just the most remembered anonymous loser among a large group of anonymous losers.
It’s aweful to see some people here are really so full of themselves.
It’s aweful to see some people here are really so full of themselves.
nah, I meant Ron McFirbank (#24). For its brevity, that’s a pretty complex dissection of basic Internet forum stuff.
The name vaguely rings a bell, coupled with the contrarian description, thanks.
nah, I meant Ron McFirbank (#24). For its brevity, that’s a pretty complex dissection of basic Internet forum stuff.
The name vaguely rings a bell, coupled with the contrarian description, thanks.
I speak as sincerely as Marley’s ghost spoke to Scrooge, which is a reasonable description of the form “Ronald McFirbank.”
The problem with the talkbacks is not that there are some jerks on it, because you had the same problem when the talkbacks were much livelier and full of knowledge and interesting people.
The problem is that you simply are not a happy warrior. There are people who can get up every day and spar with the other side and take joy in the battle The late Mgmax, for instance, relished the swashbuckling fun of posing as an Ed Anger-esque rightwinger (an exaggeration, clearly, if not a complete fabrication) countering whatever dubious factoids D.Z. had pulled out of his ass (who can forget him arguing the case for Enron?) and watching Prager blow his spout like Monstro the Whale. If he had taken it seriously, the contumely with which he was vastly outnumbered would have been soul-destroying; only as abstract sport was being a single long-nosed Cyrano in a mob of Frenchmen endurable.
But that is not your nature, obviously. You have to hate the other side; you have to needle them as haters, thugs, gorillas, when you’re the one using your primary position to go after them in bold type at the top of a post. You have to sink to the lowest view of your opponent in any dispute, whether it’s accusing teabaggers of being like the crazy guy in Austin or calling those who find Polanski contemptible contemptible.
The problem with this is not only that it’s unpersuasive, but that it weeds out the interesting commenters and leaves only the obsessed and the perverse; who would want to engage you seriously at this point on the subject of Polanski, criminal or artiste? The only one willing to meet you at your level is the guy who wants to talk about cum dribbling from sodomized asses.
So I urge you to consider abandoning the comment threads, and going back to the system you had many years and URLs ago, where you’d publish reader emails but not let the threads run wild. I actually do agree with the notion that these comment threads, such as they are, are 100 times better than most out there, but unpleasantness only spawns more unpleasantness on all sides, and you are clearly more trapped in the cycle than anyone.
Now, maybe you figure it’s enough of a traffic driver that you need to keep it. Fine. But then shake it up, break the cycle of ugliness, but changing formats. There are a million ways to interact with your readers, and changing the format will change the behavior on both sides, at least for a while.
Peace.
Well Jeff, banning DeeZee and his inevitable alts that do the link dumping and shitty opinions would be a start.
Well Jeff, banning DeeZee and his inevitable alts that do the link dumping and shitty opinions would be a start.
“He is just the most remembered anonymous loser among a large group of anonymous losers.”
You’re right Don. And you’re just a fairly well known loser. I don’t count producing a couple of shitty films as being a winner. Making money? Drug dealers make money.
You’re fat, ugly, and stupid. And endlessly jealous of Tarantino.
Jeff,
Love the site. Lately their have been a lot of assholes looking to bring this place down. Fuck them. I like debate, but the morons that seem to only post when they want to start shit with you could go as far as I’m concerned.
“He is just the most remembered anonymous loser among a large group of anonymous losers.”
You’re right Don. And you’re just a fairly well known loser. I don’t count producing a couple of shitty films as being a winner. Making money? Drug dealers make money.
You’re fat, ugly, and stupid. And endlessly jealous of Tarantino.
Jeff,
Love the site. Lately their have been a lot of assholes looking to bring this place down. Fuck them. I like debate, but the morons that seem to only post when they want to start shit with you could go as far as I’m concerned.
Gordn, if you need a primer on Jeff McDouche, he’s prominently featured in several of my crude animations (this one’s full of blogger cameos, albeit mostly of MCN types, but bask in my PITCH-PERFECT Glenn Kenny and David Poland impressions):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMR2G3PZ73A
Gordn, if you need a primer on Jeff McDouche, he’s prominently featured in several of my crude animations (this one’s full of blogger cameos, albeit mostly of MCN types, but bask in my PITCH-PERFECT Glenn Kenny and David Poland impressions):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMR2G3PZ73A
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this may have been said already, but part of the appeal of this site is that some of the posters offer insights on film that cut through the flotsam and give me something to chew on. time is too short to troll IMDB for nuggets of sane commentary, so I come here.
yeah, the teabag apologists can bring the level of discourse down a notch, but you figure out who they are and learn to ignore them.
this may have been said already, but part of the appeal of this site is that some of the posters offer insights on film that cut through the flotsam and give me something to chew on. time is too short to troll IMDB for nuggets of sane commentary, so I come here.
yeah, the teabag apologists can bring the level of discourse down a notch, but you figure out who they are and learn to ignore them.
This has been one of the best threads in a long while. I wouldn’t dream of not having comments. They’re HE’s elevation factor, definer, cross to bear. Like I said initially, it’s just the uglies that get you down.
This has been one of the best threads in a long while. I wouldn’t dream of not having comments. They’re HE’s elevation factor, definer, cross to bear. Like I said initially, it’s just the uglies that get you down.
The problem is your posters think they’re the show, and it happens on most sites. When people start referring to the other posters as if they’re all friends then you’ve got a circle jerk.
There’s also the fact that you offer opinions and show parts of yourself that aren’t related to film. You don’t want to defend your opinions on fat people, politics, and race then, and I know this is simplictic, don’t talk about those things. The less personel you write the less personel the attacks become.
As it is,you’ve given people a forum that empowers them. I agree that it’s necessary but with that comes the people who think other people come here to read their opinions, the people who can’t just ignore certain posters, the people who REALLY just want an audience for themselves, etc.
The problem is your posters think they’re the show, and it happens on most sites. When people start referring to the other posters as if they’re all friends then you’ve got a circle jerk.
There’s also the fact that you offer opinions and show parts of yourself that aren’t related to film. You don’t want to defend your opinions on fat people, politics, and race then, and I know this is simplictic, don’t talk about those things. The less personel you write the less personel the attacks become.
As it is,you’ve given people a forum that empowers them. I agree that it’s necessary but with that comes the people who think other people come here to read their opinions, the people who can’t just ignore certain posters, the people who REALLY just want an audience for themselves, etc.
“When people start referring to the other posters as if they’re all friends”
Yeah, who wants people to know who each other is, have ongoing conversations and callbacks… that can’t be good for a forum.
“When people start referring to the other posters as if they’re all friends”
Yeah, who wants people to know who each other is, have ongoing conversations and callbacks… that can’t be good for a forum.
Well, that goes both ways. For instance, I know who you are and I find you to be a smug know-it-all. See how that works?
When the AUDIENCE becomes self referential the show suffers. Believe it or not, seeing you waste space as the latest DZ-hunter isn’t entertaining.
I like the comment section here. People just need to realize that if they stopped posting here, the blog would live on.
Well, that goes both ways. For instance, I know who you are and I find you to be a smug know-it-all. See how that works?
When the AUDIENCE becomes self referential the show suffers. Believe it or not, seeing you waste space as the latest DZ-hunter isn’t entertaining.
I like the comment section here. People just need to realize that if they stopped posting here, the blog would live on.
Chinaski- Thanks for proving the point to all involved, Mr Wortheless Anonymous. And since I have never mentioned QT here negatively once even your attempt at mockery (jealousy? as in I would want to BE that guy? LOL) fails as much as your dreams do. Sucks way hard to be you, but we know that already.
Jeff- the truly bad ones, as I said (jeffmcm, Uncle Milty) eventually leave because they cannot fill the failure of their lives with anonymous comments. They inevitably go back to bagging at Trader Joes and being pissed that they could have made it, when indeed they never took the shot. Fuck ‘em.
Chinaski- Thanks for proving the point to all involved, Mr Wortheless Anonymous. And since I have never mentioned QT here negatively once even your attempt at mockery (jealousy? as in I would want to BE that guy? LOL) fails as much as your dreams do. Sucks way hard to be you, but we know that already.
Jeff- the truly bad ones, as I said (jeffmcm, Uncle Milty) eventually leave because they cannot fill the failure of their lives with anonymous comments. They inevitably go back to bagging at Trader Joes and being pissed that they could have made it, when indeed they never took the shot. Fuck ‘em.
Thanks for chiming in on this Jeff. My main concern centered around your well being and your business. Comments or no comments section, I just want my daily HE.
Thanks for chiming in on this Jeff. My main concern centered around your well being and your business. Comments or no comments section, I just want my daily HE.
“I know who you are and I find you to be a smug know-it-all.”
But isn’t that better than having to figure it out five posts into a conversation every time?
“Believe it or not, seeing you waste space as the latest DZ-hunter isn’t entertaining.”
Ah, well, I do it to entertain myself, but a lot of people seem to find it as entertaining as I do. It doesn’t seem that hard to avoid, though — which, again, it would be harder to figure out if we didn’t have established identities.
“I know who you are and I find you to be a smug know-it-all.”
But isn’t that better than having to figure it out five posts into a conversation every time?
“Believe it or not, seeing you waste space as the latest DZ-hunter isn’t entertaining.”
Ah, well, I do it to entertain myself, but a lot of people seem to find it as entertaining as I do. It doesn’t seem that hard to avoid, though — which, again, it would be harder to figure out if we didn’t have established identities.
I hear you, Wells.
I run a web site for a jazz musician that started as a fan site before becoming the “official” site. Part of that site was a discussion forum, where fans from around the world could meet each other and discuss music.
Moderating that forum took much of the joy out of running the site because the 10% that were consistently negative and LOUD about it just sapped the goodwill that it required to keep something like this successful and fun.
My solution was to find three volunteers that I trust to moderate the site so that I could step back from it a bit.
I hear you, Wells.
I run a web site for a jazz musician that started as a fan site before becoming the “official” site. Part of that site was a discussion forum, where fans from around the world could meet each other and discuss music.
Moderating that forum took much of the joy out of running the site because the 10% that were consistently negative and LOUD about it just sapped the goodwill that it required to keep something like this successful and fun.
My solution was to find three volunteers that I trust to moderate the site so that I could step back from it a bit.
in the words of Zach Mayo, I got no place else to go!!!!!
in the words of Zach Mayo, I got no place else to go!!!!!
No offense to 98% of movie bloggers who do not regularly offend people (like when that guy, don’t know who it was, called Mo’Nique a lard ass, etc.), but dealing with the few movie bloggers who do really does affect your view of humanity to some degree.
No offense to 98% of movie bloggers who do not regularly offend people (like when that guy, don’t know who it was, called Mo’Nique a lard ass, etc.), but dealing with the few movie bloggers who do really does affect your view of humanity to some degree.
I’ve been reading Jeffrey Wells for a long time. The real hardcore venom didn’t start leaking in until Jeffrey became overtly political. Right around that time, movie posts were averaging 10-25 responses. The political stuff routinely got in excess of 50 hits. But the posts got so nasty, they prompted the legendary Stalinist Purge.
It’s the devil’s bargain. Controversy brings viewership, but it also brings out the worst in people. I wish the pure movie-related posts got people more fired up – we once pushed a thread about 80s genre films over 250 posts – but that’s not what feeds the beast.
The easiest thing for a reader to do is learn certain hot-button topics – politics, Oscar takedown campaigns, Roman Polanski – and simply avoid those threads.
The easiest thing for Jeffrey to do would be to simply avoid the topics that he knows will bring out the pitchforks. But, of course, it’s not that simple.
I’ve been reading Jeffrey Wells for a long time. The real hardcore venom didn’t start leaking in until Jeffrey became overtly political. Right around that time, movie posts were averaging 10-25 responses. The political stuff routinely got in excess of 50 hits. But the posts got so nasty, they prompted the legendary Stalinist Purge.
It’s the devil’s bargain. Controversy brings viewership, but it also brings out the worst in people. I wish the pure movie-related posts got people more fired up – we once pushed a thread about 80s genre films over 250 posts – but that’s not what feeds the beast.
The easiest thing for a reader to do is learn certain hot-button topics – politics, Oscar takedown campaigns, Roman Polanski – and simply avoid those threads.
The easiest thing for Jeffrey to do would be to simply avoid the topics that he knows will bring out the pitchforks. But, of course, it’s not that simple.
“Ah, well, I do it to entertain myself, but a lot of people seem to find it as entertaining as I do.”
See, here’s the problem. No, no they don’t.
And I don’t even mean to pick on you. Several posters seem to share your delusions of grandeur but, really, I bet a lot more people are put off by you thinking you’re so entertaining, they just don’t bother to post about it.
And, frenkly, when you’re gone, nothing will be lost, because — in part — another sucker will fall for fake DZ’s okey-doke.
“Ah, well, I do it to entertain myself, but a lot of people seem to find it as entertaining as I do.”
See, here’s the problem. No, no they don’t.
And I don’t even mean to pick on you. Several posters seem to share your delusions of grandeur but, really, I bet a lot more people are put off by you thinking you’re so entertaining, they just don’t bother to post about it.
And, frenkly, when you’re gone, nothing will be lost, because — in part — another sucker will fall for fake DZ’s okey-doke.
“No, no they don’t.”
A lot more people have singled out those arguments as entertaining than criticized them. Period.
“I bet a lot more people are put off by you thinking you’re so entertaining”
Again, I don’t care whether I’m entertaining. I am entertaining myself. It’s just that a bunch more people (more than I expected) have chimed in repeatedly saying how much they enjoy it. I’m not sure what to tell you except that, again, if you see a thread that’s a day old and the last fifteen posts are me and DZ, you probably won’t get much out of reading them.
But let’s go a little further — are you reading the correct part? The entertaining part is definitely NOT me. I mean, once in a while, sure, I get off a good line, but the vast majority of entertainment there (and I’m sure the other people entertained by it would agree) is coming from the absurd bullshit that DZ will say. If you leave him alone, he’ll just come and disrupt every conversation by comparing 3-D prices to rape. But if you get him to focus on one subject for a few posts, the stuff he comes up with is truly amazing.
Or, as I said, skip them. Either way, it’s absolutely no difference to me.
“And, frenkly, when you’re gone, nothing will be lost, because — in part — another sucker will fall for fake DZ’s okey-doke.”
Hey, I’ve sometimes thought he’s a fake too, but, much like Karl Pilkington, he long ago passed the point where the question mattered. Like the old ‘Mother Night’ quote which I won’t bother to paraphrase, at a certain point, if you’re that good at faking, it doesn’t matter whether you’re a fake or not.
“No, no they don’t.”
A lot more people have singled out those arguments as entertaining than criticized them. Period.
“I bet a lot more people are put off by you thinking you’re so entertaining”
Again, I don’t care whether I’m entertaining. I am entertaining myself. It’s just that a bunch more people (more than I expected) have chimed in repeatedly saying how much they enjoy it. I’m not sure what to tell you except that, again, if you see a thread that’s a day old and the last fifteen posts are me and DZ, you probably won’t get much out of reading them.
But let’s go a little further — are you reading the correct part? The entertaining part is definitely NOT me. I mean, once in a while, sure, I get off a good line, but the vast majority of entertainment there (and I’m sure the other people entertained by it would agree) is coming from the absurd bullshit that DZ will say. If you leave him alone, he’ll just come and disrupt every conversation by comparing 3-D prices to rape. But if you get him to focus on one subject for a few posts, the stuff he comes up with is truly amazing.
Or, as I said, skip them. Either way, it’s absolutely no difference to me.
“And, frenkly, when you’re gone, nothing will be lost, because — in part — another sucker will fall for fake DZ’s okey-doke.”
Hey, I’ve sometimes thought he’s a fake too, but, much like Karl Pilkington, he long ago passed the point where the question mattered. Like the old ‘Mother Night’ quote which I won’t bother to paraphrase, at a certain point, if you’re that good at faking, it doesn’t matter whether you’re a fake or not.
“I bet a lot more people are put off by you thinking you’re so entertaining, they just don’t bother to post about it. ”
The problem I have with that logic is that you’ve got a thread here (either this one or the last one) where Jeff specifically nominated me to be banned from the site. This would seem to be the porfect time for your alleged silent majority to chime in. And nobody did. Several people in the thread said “Ban DZ and his links”. But nobody agreed with Jeff. And that was when I was really, really fucking with Jeff, because he was being an asshole. So, even with all the people who came out to kiss up to Jeff, not a single person agreed with him that I should be banned.
Obviously, that’s purely anecdotal, and not real evidence, but it’s certainly more evidence than “I’m going to guess that all the people who don’t say anything are the people who agree with me.”
“I bet a lot more people are put off by you thinking you’re so entertaining, they just don’t bother to post about it. ”
The problem I have with that logic is that you’ve got a thread here (either this one or the last one) where Jeff specifically nominated me to be banned from the site. This would seem to be the porfect time for your alleged silent majority to chime in. And nobody did. Several people in the thread said “Ban DZ and his links”. But nobody agreed with Jeff. And that was when I was really, really fucking with Jeff, because he was being an asshole. So, even with all the people who came out to kiss up to Jeff, not a single person agreed with him that I should be banned.
Obviously, that’s purely anecdotal, and not real evidence, but it’s certainly more evidence than “I’m going to guess that all the people who don’t say anything are the people who agree with me.”