Once Again
I’ve noted many times in this space that I understand the plight of Hollywood filmmakers who support Republican or conservative causes. I got into this when I wrote a big piece for Los Angeles magazine in early ’95 called “Right Face,” about how it was easier in the liberal Hollywood culture of the mid ’90s to say you’re gay than confess to being a rightie, which could put you on what Lionel Chetwynd called a “white list.”
So I knew right away what Patrick Goldstein was on about yesterday when he quoted mystery novelist and screenwriter Andrew Klavan, a leading conservative activist, to wit: “There’s a culture in Hollywood where if you’re a left-winger, you can talk very openly…. If you go in to sell something, you can make anti-American, anti-military, anti-religious remarks, but I’m the kind of guy who’s going to say, ‘No, I disagree.’ But that’s pretty much the end of my sale. Whereas, if you’re a conservative, especially if you’re a religious person, people like that meet in secret, talk in whispers. It’s a very disturbing kind of culture.”
Goldstein wrote that “being a Jew who grew up in the South, I sympathize with all oppressed minorities, but I think that conservatives need to get a grip here. Yes, Hollywood is lousy with liberals — they’re everywhere. That’s a given, okay, just like where my family comes from, there’s a Baptist church on every block. But where’s the evidence that conservatives are denied jobs because of their political beliefs? For all the vague charges being bandied about, I’ve never heard any specific examples of suppression in action. If you’re a conservative and can offer me chapter and verse, I will be happy to take up your cause.”
The way I heard it fifteen years ago, it’s not that right-wing actors fail to get hired for this or that film or TV show — that’s not the problem. It’s more in the realm of conservative-minded directors and screenwriters not getting hired to direct or write any sort of sensitive touchy-feeling material because leftie executives believe that righties are too militant and hard-assed to get this sort of thing. Which seems unfair. Really.
Of course, there is the Stephen Baldwin issue, which I got into on 4.22. I was dissed for being cavalier or two-faced, but I’m at least honest enough to admit that putting right-wingers under the economic lash for their beliefs is a delicious fantasy. If for no other reason than to rhapsodize about karma payback for all the liberals that their grandfathers put out of work during the blacklist days of the late ’40s and ’50s. I don’t actually advocate this, mind — the only way to go in this town is to work with the best people for the job, no matter who they are or what they believe — but…well, you know.
I mean, is there any other culture in America besides Hollywood where you can make righties suffer and get away with it? It is dead wrong to actually do this, obviously, but can you blame liberals for at least closing their eyes and indulging in a little day-dreaming? How is an ardent liberal supposed to respond, after all, to a group that’s committed to suppressing or ignoring green innovation, coddling the oil industry, goading the tea-baggers and the birthers, trying to block health care, defending Goldman Sachs piracy, praising reptiles like Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachmann, denying global warming, and spending much if not most of its time catering to the beliefs of the ugliest and stupidest block of voters in the U.S.? Really — how should liberals react to all this? By patting conservatives on the back, buying them a drink at the golf club, sending business their way and turning the other cheek?
I just caught a little of The Thin Red Line again on TV. Funny now to watch the back and forth in the scenes between Caveziel and Penn; the two ends of the political spectrum (even though the spectrum is a circle and technically has no ends). Caveziel simply owned that that movie, though based on politics is now on cable mini series, while the liberal with lifeless eyes went on to win two Oscars. I get your point, Jeffrey; far from fair though.
I am contractually obliged to comment here.
Forget the McCarthy thing. They owe us big time for Willie Horton and the Swiftboaters alone.
I think it comes down to dehumanizing those who disagree with you. And the problem with right and left extremists is they dehumanize that the most often.
Dwight Shultz wrote an article on this shortly after Paul Newman died, cited how he was conservative and Newman was liberal, but Newman was kind and respectful and a humanitarian (when they did Fat Man & Little Boy together), and they’d have lengthy discussions, and he loved the guy. And around that time he had an interview with Bruce Paltrow, but Bruce threw him out of the audition as soon as he found out Dwight voted for Reagan.
Do I fantasize about hurting people who disagree with me? I’m much more likely to fantasize getting revenge on the boss who unjustly laid me off or the guy who stole the stereo out of my car or the Islamist punk who gave the veiled death-threat to the South Park boys.
Can someone “blacklist” John Nolte from access to a keyboard?
That would be swell.
This guy?
http://cardboardgods.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/2008_718_0002_willie_horton_75_1080.jpg
Krillian, you piqued my interest so I found the Shultz piece you mentioned: http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/dschultz/2009/03/16/the-liberal-bastille/
Dig that civil-rights era Chuck Heston sandwich board pic!
That made me snort coffee, Travis. Well done, sir, well done.
I’m of two minds about this because unlike Jeff I seem to have actual friends who are actual Republicans (with brains, I must add – they cannot stand Palin and think the tea baggers are trying to steer the party into a ditch).
I like spirited debate. I think that opposing viewpoints at the very least help ground your own beliefs by having to defend them. In the best outcomes of such debate that opposing viewpoint helps expose flaws, weaknesses and otherwise improves an issue.
That said, there is something very contrarian about those with Conservative views being artists. Being conservative is about maintaining the status quo, about rejecting humanistic reactions to issues, about favoring the collective over the individual.
I think it ultimately boils down to the attitude a conservative vs a progressive has when it comes to filtering life. The former crosses his arms and with a doubtful air says “Convince me.” The latter offers his hand and says “enlighten me.”
It’s a great attitude for a banker; I think it’s terribly limiting for an artist.
Sorry, Lex. I’ve never heard of Nolte before and didn’t realize he was persona non grata, Otherwise I wouldn’t have posted the link to the Shultz piece. My apologies, I usually stay away from the poli-threads and stick to movie-chat, but I was curious. Still, pics like this are priceless:
http://theinvisibleagent.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/civilheston_baldwin_brando_civil_rights_march_1963.jpg
Just observing that the vast majority of complaining right-leaning creative types in Hollywood are white men. It is never fun to be judged by something other than your skills, and these white men are finally getting a taste of it. It maddens them to the core to know there is a club that they are not automatically invited into, let alone welcome in. It is understandable, yes, and yet also laughable. It’s a majority-rule world and we all live and work to survive in it. To them I say, “Welcome.”
The problem is, in this day and age MOST people who bitch about being “ostracized for their beliefs” were probably ACTUALLY ostracized because they were assholes in a manner tangentially related to their beliefs. Example: I’ll do business with christians, muslims, whoever… But if your working on my time and I hear you going on about how abortion docs should be getting shot or that you’d like to behead the South Park guys… Get the fuck out. We’re done. NOT because of your beliefs, but because you’re an ASSHOLE about your beliefs.
There is such a weird energy on Big Hollywood. Who is their audience? Who, for example wants to read a long column with this headline “Rock Rebel Embraces `The Man’ Sting Wants Bigger Government (For Us)”
I mean, WTF? Who cares?
And that Andrew Klavan guy is a real piece of work. In his official photo, he’s going for a bald Clint Eastwood look. Unfortunately his videos make it clear that he looks more like the Six Flags guy.
Fun to see all the guilty white men on this board relishing the thought of (other) white men suffering at the hands of injustice and intolerance.
And Deathtongue Groupie, how can we take anything you say seriously when you state “Being conservative is about … favoring the collective over the individual.”
That is completely wrong! True conservatives believe in the individual, while true Leftists believe in the collective.
Guessing that Surnow, when the miniseries is about to air, will claim JFK as being a Republican by today’s standards.
Thunder: “Fun to see all the guilty white men on this board relishing the thought of (other) white men suffering at the hands of injustice and intolerance.”
When said men in the latter category vote for and/or endorse injustice and tolerance in the form of racial-profiling, torture, denying gays the right to marry, fucking over the poor so that the rich can maintain an economic caste system, then they got no moral high ground to stand on.
Why do I get the feeling that Wells is totally bummed out this thread isn’t up to 95 posts by now.
(“I don’t get it… the political stuff ALWAYS gets lots of action. I’d better drop a ‘Spielberg is a hack’ post.”)
Travis, how about “Speilberg’s jingoist nuclear family Rockwell tendencies prove he is a secret Conservative”
Yes!
Terry, maybe. Neoconservatives like to try and claim JFK as one of their own. David Zucker tried that in An American Carol.
Thunderballs,
“True conservatives believe in the individual, while true Leftists believe in the collective.”
Sums it up. Especially in a town (Hollywood) where everyone thinks of themselves first.
It’s pretty funny when you hear conservatives talk about “true conservatism” as if it ever existed. For all their hatred of socialism, they make the same plea: don’t judge us until we’re perfect.
It comes down to this…. I’ve found that the more intelligent and more politically learned someone is, the more likely they are to be cool with someone who thinks differently than they do. (that’s why Tip and Ronnie were friends, as well as Ted Kennedy and W.)
Problem is, in Hollywood you get a lot of knee-jerkism. Telling someone that you are conservative is like telling them you’re a member of the Ku Klux Klan. (don’t EVEN, DeeZee)
My first gig was at NBC and a girl who worked there found out that I had voted for Bob Dole and she SERIOUSLY acted as if she had just learned that I was a vivisectionist. She truly acted betrayed. “I thought he was a nice person. Boy was I wrong.”
Be good friends here who are anywhere from hard-core left to mildly Democrat give me shit or debate me on certain issues but we’re still friends. The problem is with them, it’s with people you haven’t met yet or those who won’t allow you to explain. (“No, I don’t believe gay people are going to hell. Yes, I do believe Obama is a U.S. citizen.”)
Too many people in Hollywood (and many on this site) subscribe to the bumper-sticker mentality of Democrat = good, normal person who wants to help people, Republican = bad, evil, hate monger. And why not? It’s easier than thinking.
Anyway, quit letting your views be defined by the noise makers on either side.
As for Terry. Well, let’s see….. JFK was rabidly anti-communist, argued for lower taxes across the board and believed that relieving the burden on the generators of wealth grew the economy and he believed in a strong, vital defense.
I don’t see anyone “claiming” Kennedy as their own. But by today’s standards he could very well be seen as a moderate conservative. Just like Nixon could be seen as a middle of the road liberal. (EPA, Earth Day, Social spending etc)
And another thing….. keep that nutty Baldwin brother out of the equation. He’s a religious kook who happens to vote for Republicans. (kind of like how Jim Jones was a religious kook who voted for and supported Democrats)
Kenyan Born US President,
With a name like that, you’re not credible. You’re just a nut.
“True conservatives believe in the individual”
As long as that individual is white, straight, God fearing, and rich.
“Especially in a town (Hollywood) where everyone thinks of themselves first.”
Yeah, just look at all those conservatives falling all over themselves to help their fellow, less financially fortunate, man.
Travis,
“I’ve found that the more intelligent and more politically learned someone is, the more likely they are to be cool with someone who thinks differently than they do. (that’s why Tip and Ronnie were friends, as well as Ted Kennedy and W.)”
Are you really implying that Dubya is intelligent and politically learned? Really?
Most everything you said about liberals/Hollywood can be spun around and said about conservatives/bible belt folks.
Travis: ”
“Too many people in Hollywood (and many on this site) subscribe to the bumper-sticker mentality of Democrat = good, normal person who wants to help people, Republican = bad, evil, hate monger. ”
Well, in their defense, the Republicans have been running our state into the ground for the last seven years…[Thirty, if you count Prop. 13.]
As for Dole, I’d consider him a lame pick, and wouldn’t care either way. But I’d be gob-smacked by anyone admitting they voted Bush.
I voted for Bush.
Enjoy being gobsmacked.
Bottom line… I think DeeZee is a leftist, neo-Marxist nutbar. Having said that, I don’t dislike the guy. In fact, I wouldn’t mind shootin’ the shit about movies. You might be an (otherwise) okay guy.
But there are people I’ve met on the Left, and on here, who could NEVER look past my voting record. I could say, “hey, ‘Paths of Glory’ is at the Aero this week” and they’d respond with, “shut up, you lying fascist!”
Ah, to be young, angry, full of coffee and fresh out of community college.
And yes, Deez…. that 4.8% unemployment rate WAS a real bummer, wasn’t it?
“Caveziel simply owned that that movie, though based on politics is now on cable mini series”
Caviezel isn’t losing work because of politics. He piously turned down a lot of high-profile work post-’Passion’, because he felt it was beneath him, and then turned around and wasn’t being offered any more of that sort of work and wound up having to take really shitty work. The only thing I’ve ever heard of him being turned down on was ‘Superman’ (probably for the best, hm?), and that was because he was too famous/associated specifically with Jesus.
It’s weird to me that conservatives are so ashamed of their positions that they feel so constantly judged. It seems to me a lot like DZ talking about how nobody liked him in high school, and it was specifically because of not liking ‘Titanic’. (Seems to me like everybody in Hollywood loves John Milius, and he’s pretty far to the right.) Maybe I’m naive, but I still believe it has a lot more to do with how you do shit than just that you do shit.
That last sentence is undeniably true, Gordon.
But Travis, if you voted for Bush a second time that really is indefensible. I know, I know…if that’s the case, then I’m “close-minded.” But if that’s the case, you’re also in utter denial.
Utter denial of what?
When the best the Dems could come up with was John “Did I Mention I Fought in Vietnam” Kerry? Egads.
One of my best friends was a huge supported of Dennis Kucinich. Seriously. You don’t think I have fun with that one? Still love her, though. (“I want to create a Department of Peace”)
Well……
It’s not the position. It’s that it’s used to define the person. I can talk for hours about how Jane Fonda is (was) one of cinema’s greatest actresses and how I loved even her early work without once mentioning that she was a traitorous, fifth column-dwelling dimwit.
Let’s see if Wells can EVER again on this site mention Jon Voight in any context without qualifying it with an aside about how he’s a “crazy, right-wing thug who’s lost his mind and turned evil”.
If this were a site about politics, fine. But it’s presumably a site about film.
And why is it that I, one of the only confessed conservatives on this site, seem to be the only person who doesn’t read Big Hollywood? I don’t purposely avoid it. I’ve checked it out a couple of times. Doesn’t do much for me. But it sounds like y’all spend half your day there. Most of what I know about it I read here.
Utterly in denial of how he utterly failed in his first four years of office, genius. Even my father — a fairly hard-line conservative — was able to realize this. To wit, “if you don’t perform up to a level of baseline competency, you should be fired, I don’t care if you’re applying for the job of President or janitor.” That’s some heartland wisdom right there, although I certainly agree with your assessment of the lameness of Kerry — I didn’t vote for him, either. I went third-party, but I think ’04 was a reasonable year to cast out the ole “none of the above” choice. A wasted vote? More than likely, although anything has a chance of getting us out of this two-party rut is worth a shot.
“It’s that it’s used to define the person. I can talk for hours about how Jane Fonda is (was) one of cinema’s greatest actresses and how I loved even her early work without once mentioning that she was a traitorous, fifth column-dwelling dimwit.”
Except you never do. If you truly don’t want politics to define you as a person, then stop viewing every other post as an opportunity to command your political pedestal. Fuck sake, I try to skip through all your repetitive goobleydegook, and I still end up knowing where you stand on over half the issues.
You’re far from the only one, but you do seem to be the most overly self-conscious about it, like you’re always seeking some sort of weird parental vindication for your beliefs or something.
Annoying.
I’ll wait patiently for you to come up with an example of me initiating political comments on an otherwise benign thread.
I don’t pull this shit out of thin air.
Seriously.
I’m tired of it, too. But as long as other people keep it going, so will I.
Like I said, let’s just wait for the next mention on here of Joel Surnow, Jon Voight or any other known conservative in the entertainment biz that DOESN’T prattle on about their “rabid beliefs”.
THAT’S what’s annoying.
(still waiting btw)
Travis: “I voted for Bush.”
Once or twice?
“that 4.8% unemployment rate WAS a real bummer, wasn’t it?”
Too bad it had nothing to do with Bush.
“When the best the Dems could come up with was John “Did I Mention I Fought in Vietnam” Kerry? Egads.”
At least he fought in Vietnam instead of using his daddy’s connections to dodge the draft. BTW, I thought you’re supposed to support the troops.
One weird thing about this is that Klavan wrote one of my favorite Michael Caine films, A SHOCK TO THE SYSTEM, which was a pretty left-wing movie IMO. As for the notion that conservatives are discriminated against, I’m sure it does happen occasionally – what Bruce Paltrow did to Dwight Schultz was unprofessional and shitty – but by and large like others have said if you can deliver, it doesn’t matter what your politics are. People will say anything to explain a downturn in their career, liberals do it too – Laura Dern said her career faltered because of her participation in Ellen’s coming-out TV party, but really that’s just what happens to just about all pretty-but-not-beautiful good-but-not-great actresses once they’re around 40.
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