Remains Of The Day
I hate it when I’m framing a shot on a Manhattan street and people who are walking along and about to enter into the frame stop and wait for me to snap the shot. They’re being polite, of course, but in a tediously mundane and American middle-class way, which is to say a form of politeness that says “we don’t get it.” Know this and know it well — people who stop and wait for you to take a shot don’t get it.
If you’re in the shot then you’re in the shot, and if you’re not then you’re not in the shot. If I see somebody about to take a photo on a New York street I walk right the fuck in front of them every time. If I wind up in somebody’s Flickr album then so be it. And I don’t then I don’t. Everyone is in everyone’s else’s photo album, and the chances are it’ll be a better shot if someone happens to wander into the frame. It almost always is.
Most people don’t understand this. A photo taken in a crowded city full of life and energy is always better if something untidy happens. Your shot of Aunt Mabel standing in front of a horse-drawn buggy in Central Park is always improved if a derelict happens to stumble into the shot, or if Glenn Kenny is strolling along the footpath and happens to be captured as he walks by. Or if a cop on horseback is clopping along and becomes part of the shot. Or if a dog wanders into the frame.
Plain old shots of Aunt Mabel standing and smiling in front of a horse are bad pictures because aside from the “say cheese!” aspect they’re about suppressing life in order to create a regulated and somewhat banal thing. In this sense I feel that they represent a kind of middle-class cancer of the soul. Life is not tidy or “posed,” and it wouldn’t hurt if this idea got around a bit more, especially among people from Iowa. Aunt Mabel can still smile if life intrudes into the shot and you can still make sure she’s in focus, but life is not a showroom for Nordstrom bedroom settings.
We’re all “in the movie.” Nothing matters. There is no “privacy.” Security cameras and satellite cameras tape everyone all the time for no reason other than rote surveillance. If a fellow human being captures your puss in a photo it’s at least being done with a personal motive of some kind. Live with it, groove with it, be here now.
I’m not sure what you’re getting at here. It’s not a privacy issue, it’s a politeness issue. Usually, people are taking pictures of their friends or family standing in front of something. Pausing allows them to get the clear shot. Not everyone is trying for candid snaps of a city, or a rest stop or whatever.
That said, I will only pause for so long. Once they recognize you’re waiting, they really should take the picture within 5 seconds or so. After that, I think walking along is fair game. It’s not like it’s Ansel freaking Adams waiting for the “right light.”
I repeat: never wait, never stop, walk into the frame, and whatever happens happens. And if the guy from Iowa asks me to snap him and his family posing on Park Avenue, I’ll say “sure!” and take his camera and take the best-framed shot that I can.
Well, at least that’s something.
Between yesterday’s photo post and this follow up, you seem more out of sorts than usual. I know you don’t believe in any conventional religion, but in the past you’ve acknowledged feeling like there is some sort of connectedness to things. The karmic wheel can roll right over you with big spiked treads, and Cannes is coming up. I hope you know what you’re doing.
I’m almost scared to say anything, lest I be banned. I have to say I don’t wait, but might walk around the person if it’s an option.
“there is some sort of connectedness to things”
He just watched Avatar again.
Sharp, incisive idea to wake up to, Jeff. Goes great with my coffee. You’re on fire, man. This bit of wisdom’s going in long-term memory.
Have a great day posting.
Gay marriage is legal in the state of Iowa, and not in New York or California.
I’ll take banality and mundane politeness anyday over oppression and and backwardness.
Wells to Rich S.: I talk about allowing life into an otherwise banal photograph, and you talk about the big spiked treads of karma rolling across my chest.
Gotta agree with Jeff here with these last few posts however slightly OCD they might be with the whole issue. However, city streets, public venues, etc. don’t require permission slips or hall passes for photogs and journalists. Anything outside the confines of your home are, for better or worse, fair game. Celeb or not, YOU’RE IN THE PICTURE. Walk around Disneyland trying to snap exclusive shots or suitable-for-framing keepers. You’ll spend eleven hours out of 11 1/2 waiting for people to get out of your shot. Consideration and manners are as dead today as Latin.
Thank you, Baxter Peanut.
I’ve said my piece. I like posting here, and in light of the discussions of the last couple days, I have no desire to test the boundaries of decorum.
What are you talking about? I’m not into crazy banishments, I merely asked yesterday for a token amount of respect from commenters.
Do you still walk in the shot when there’s a clear set-up (e.g. a family or friend?)
Spuij, my thoughts exactly – that’s the distinction that needs to be made. If someone is OBVIOUSLY taking a general street scene picture, walking in front of it is no problem for me – hey, that’s street life, that’s what you get when you walk around in NYC.
However, if there’s obviously a pose going on – friends/family in front of this or that attraction – come on, step back for a few seconds. Sure, it may be banal as hell, but act like a fucking adult and show some basic human respect.
It’s a question of aesthetics, surely? If I’m taking a photograph the last thing I want is some random extra ambling into the frame at an ugly angle, their head blurring like one of those demons that haunt Tim Robbins in Jacob’s Ladder. Yes, life’s a movie, but there’s a time for a crowd scene and a time for a beauty shot.
You may be right, Wells.
But sometimes I just don’t like getting my picture taken.
Totally agree with this.
Along the same lines: People running through shots when I’m shooting video. They look like escaped convicts
I’m split on this. If it’s people standing and posing for a photo and they’re waiting for the flash or something, I’d wait, but only if you have to walk in front of them. If you’re walking behind, or they’re taking a picture of a building or something, I’d say walk on by.
I guess my sympathy is for the people stuck grimacing in a frozen tableau while they wait for the photographer to get his act together, not for the picture taker himself.
Well, yes, Jeffmc2000, obviously i wouldn’t stand around and wait for more than a few respectful seconds. I’m not asking that street traffic get impeded because people take forever to take a photo. I’d say that’s the basic social code – I’ll respect your banal photo shoot if you get it done quickly.
Wells needs some Cannes sunshine to get him out of his current mood-pocket.
“Consideration and manners are as dead today as Latin.”
Should we actively, consciously contribute to its death, then?
I think you just have to remember most people taking pictures don’t have artistic aspirations – they just want to be able to show their friends, “Look, here I am at the Empire State Building.”
So when one goes to the movies, one might as well sneak in an anchovy pizza, text and talk loudly because after all; “Manners are as dead as Latin”?
NOTICE
WE ARE CURRENTLY FILMING SCENES FOR “HOLLYWOOD ELSEWHERE”. BY ENTERING THIS AREA YOU ARE GIVING “HOLLYWOOD ELSEWHERE” YOUR CONSENT TO PHOTOGRAPH, VIDEOTAPE AND BROADCAST YOUR LIKENESS.
I work near the Entire State Bldg. and am constantly walking into people’s photos. It tickles me that people all over the world are looking at these pictures and asking each other, “Who is that handsome bald man? I never seen such rampant virility.”
“Hey… isn’t that Floyd Thursby?!”
Good one, Travis.
ErrantElan makes the best contrarian observation so far.
It’s also darkly amusing that Jeff is having one of his “hey, fuck you and your bourgeois manners, this is New York” moments the day after everyone got to see the video from the good samaritan being stabbed after helping a mugging victim and left to die on the sidewalk.
Kitty Genovese’s ghost returns.
I said this in the last thread, but it bears repeating; I’d like to see Jeff, or anyone in his amen corner, try that fake-macho “tough tits/float with it” routine when they’ve got a pissed-off gang-banger in their frame, or taking the picture, and the fellow lets them know they don’t like it. Go on and tell the guy that consideration and manners are as dead as Latin, yeah, that’ll work. I’ll make sure to send you flowers in the hospital, if you live. But at least it’ll show that you have the courage of your convictions, which throwing a sublimated rage-fest against a ticked-off looking young woman who likely has a higher earning potential than you doesn’t quite accomplish.
Sadly, I’m the douchebag that when seeing complete strangers about to take a picture, runs over to force myself into the shot. This is commonly referred to as “photobombing”.
When asked to take a picture of a couple or group, I always freak them out by moving in. Pet Peeve #344 – people always shoot each other from about fifty yards away. Even when the surrounding view doesn’t matter. There ends up being about five feet of space under their feet and over their heads.
What, you really need to see what shoes the person is wearing that day? MOVE IN!!! Waist-up!
“Why are you standing so close, Mister?”
Sublimated rage indeed, Mr. Kenny.
Something tells me Jeff’s blase “manners are dead” attitude is a semi-reactionary response to the fact that he actually attaches a hyper-level of importance to manners. This is the man who complains (rightfully so) about Hispanic Party Elephants, fat guys eating pizza noisily at movies, and, let’s not forget, pithily pointing out that we all know “what type of people” it was that stabbed a woman in the neck in California when she complained to the ushers that they were making noise.
Jeff has a Travis Bickle amount of rage at the uncouth, manner-less world around him, but because he just doesn’t have the cojones for a get-a-mohawk-and-go-postal-on-a-pimp (fake-macho bravado aside), he chooses to take out his anger on those any pleasant-looking people who might not want to be in his photos, but damn it, it’s NOW A JUNGLE OUT THERE! And he’s going to be King of the White Asshole Elephants, goddamnit!
but only when it’s a pretty white girl in the photo. After all, as Glenn pointed out, if it was another demographic, hell, you might get stabbed in the neck.
Off topic, but Travis’ post reminded me of a funny story Jeff Altman once told on Letterman.
He and Letterman were at Disneyland (or something similar) together when a woman walked up, recognized Letterman, went crazy, and asked Altman if she would take a picture of the two of them.
Altman, who was peeved at not being recognized, lined up the shot….and then ran off with the woman’s camera. Shocked, the woman looked at Letterman, who replied, “What? I thought he was with you.”
Sorry, I meant, “she asked Altman if HE would take a picture of the two of them.”
I used to love Altman on Letterman.
” I’ll beat you like a rented mule, boy. I’ll drop you like a bad transmission. I’ll roll you like wholesale carpeting—”
I haven’t watched the show regularly in years. Does he still have any of the old comics like Altman or George Wallace on? I
I had no idea that being polite by staying out of someone’s shot was something to look down on. What a Hobbesian world.
You should respect the fact that some of us are in the Witness Protection Program. Jeez.
That’s why they call you Jeff “walking in front of a camera all the time” Wells.
Probably why your press pass and the photo on top of this site change so damned often.
You’re like a chameleon.
The problem is that these people whose frames you deliberately wander into aren’t magically absorbing your philosophy of suppressing life and middle America tedium that you’re so delightfully trying to enlighten them with so they immediately change their lives and become more interesting to you. They just think you’re a rude asshole when you could have waited 3 seconds.
By all means, though, continue with what you’re doing. Pretentious people everywhere would cheer your refusal to conform to societal rules of common courtesy for the sake of being such a revolutionary artist.
Um, ok, but tell us who your favorite musicians/artists are. I’d seriously like to know. *listening to that video now*
Forgive the last post – put it in the wrong thread! (insert embarrassed smiley here)
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Politeness what one should have when taking pictures in front of some thing. Because we are with family and came out to have nice time and not get our mood off.
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What I am saying is never wait for any thing. Let it happen. I like posting here, I like the discussions of the last couple days.
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