Loud Latinos

I’m having a late breakfast at a cafe near my place, and there’s this jabbering Hispanic guy sitting two tables away who’s louder than hell. To be heard by his tablemate he’d need to talk at a level 4 or 5 (which is how I do it — I talk to someone like I’m having a conversation, not like I’m giving a speech in an outdoor arena without a microphone). This guy is talking at a level 8 or 9.

A couple of Latino guys sitting at the counter are doing the same thing, bellowing from the diaphragm so everyone in the cafe can hear what they’re saying. Except they have to talk even louder because they have to be heard over the first loud guy.

There’s no way around it — New York Hispanics can sometimes be socially unsubtle people, and they don’t seem to care if people like me are bothered by their patter. It never even occurs. We all act thoughtlessly from time to time, but the mark of a real animal is someone who never considers that he/she might be giving offense.

Is this primarily a New York-area thing? Or something that only low-rent Latinos do? I’ve been all around Spain and I’ve rarely noticed this level of conversational obnoxiousness in cafes. Nor did I notice this element when I visited Buenos Aires a few years ago. The Latin men and women I’ve observed in other countries can be spirited and exuberant, of course, but they mostly seem to converse at moderate levels. People with money and/or accomplishment under their belts are always more soft-spoken. You can bet that if you were to go to a cafe with Paul Shenar‘s Alejandro Sosa, the Bolivian drug dealer in Scarface, that he wouldn’t be carrying on like these three nearby donkeys. Does Edward James Olmos bellow in cafes and cause guys like me to complain about him? I seriously doubt it.

  • Wrecktem

    Low-rent New York Jews do the same thing. And so do low rent, greasy New Jersey Ei-Ties. And don’t get me started on those colored folk up in Harlem.

  • Wrecktem

    Low-rent New York Jews do the same thing. And so do low rent, greasy New Jersey Ei-Ties. And don’t get me started on those colored folk up in Harlem.

  • EdHavens

    It’s not just New Yorkers and it’s not just Latinos. Most people today just don’t give a flying f*ck about anyone else.

  • EdHavens

    It’s not just New Yorkers and it’s not just Latinos. Most people today just don’t give a flying f*ck about anyone else.

  • raygo

    How about a sound file to accompany the post, just to make it interesting?

  • raygo

    How about a sound file to accompany the post, just to make it interesting?

  • Mayor Quimby

    It’s worse in New York than most places. People in New York City are inconsiderate, by and large.

  • Mayor Quimby

    It’s worse in New York than most places. People in New York City are inconsiderate, by and large.

  • Jeffrey Wells

    One mark of a socially coarse person is someone who talks much more loudly in mixed company than he/she needs to. People of all nations & cultures understand this. I’d like to sound balanced & equitable while making this observation and say that all lower-middle-class New York ethnics are equally offensive, but my experience honestly tells me that Latinos are far and away the most obnoxious in this respect. I dare any New Yorker who gets around to write back and say, “No, you’re wrong — Hispanics are actually rather restrained and cultivated-sounding and soft-spoken in bars and cafes and other places of congregation.” I double dare.

  • Jeffrey Wells

    One mark of a socially coarse person is someone who talks much more loudly in mixed company than he/she needs to. People of all nations & cultures understand this. I’d like to sound balanced & equitable while making this observation and say that all lower-middle-class New York ethnics are equally offensive, but my experience honestly tells me that Latinos are far and away the most obnoxious in this respect. I dare any New Yorker who gets around to write back and say, “No, you’re wrong — Hispanics are actually rather restrained and cultivated-sounding and soft-spoken in bars and cafes and other places of congregation.” I double dare.

  • Travis Crabtree

    Wells! Hook us up with some audio proof next time. If you don’t have your audio recorder, put your camera on “video” mode and discreetly tape a few moments. (Just the audio, you don’t have to actually point the lens at the offenders)

    BTW Try sitting near somebody watching “Sabado Gigante”.

    Aye caramba!

  • Travis Crabtree

    Wells! Hook us up with some audio proof next time. If you don’t have your audio recorder, put your camera on “video” mode and discreetly tape a few moments. (Just the audio, you don’t have to actually point the lens at the offenders)

    BTW Try sitting near somebody watching “Sabado Gigante”.

    Aye caramba!

  • matt cousens

    I was in LA once, eating with my aunt, and this dude was very loud…

    http://www.wwtdd.com/2010/06/fuck-you-sean-penn/

  • matt cousens

    I was in LA once, eating with my aunt, and this dude was very loud…

    http://www.wwtdd.com/2010/06/fuck-you-sean-penn/

  • gogocrank10
  • gogocrank10
  • VoiceOfReason

    Was their topic of conversation the World Cup?

  • VoiceOfReason

    Was their topic of conversation the World Cup?

  • Floyd Thursby

    Agree completely with EdHavens. On the streets of Manhattan I’m constantly amazed by the number of people, regardless of sex, age, ethnicity, or socio-economic conditions, who clearly think they’re the only people in the world and that if their behavior bothers anyone else, it’s the other fucker’s problem. This includes tourists, too.

  • Floyd Thursby

    Agree completely with EdHavens. On the streets of Manhattan I’m constantly amazed by the number of people, regardless of sex, age, ethnicity, or socio-economic conditions, who clearly think they’re the only people in the world and that if their behavior bothers anyone else, it’s the other fucker’s problem. This includes tourists, too.

  • Holy Spokes

    For all the bragging New Yorkers do about New York they sure do quite a bit of complaining as well.

  • Holy Spokes

    For all the bragging New Yorkers do about New York they sure do quite a bit of complaining as well.

  • Josh Massey

    It ain’t just New York – I live in a Hispanic hub of Atlanta, and experience this every day. “It’s loud in here” is a common code for “There are a lot of Hispanics (or black women) here.”

  • Josh Massey

    It ain’t just New York – I live in a Hispanic hub of Atlanta, and experience this every day. “It’s loud in here” is a common code for “There are a lot of Hispanics (or black women) here.”

  • Deathtongue_Groupie

    A Jeff Wells rant about noise and Hispanics?

    Is it summer already?

  • Deathtongue_Groupie

    A Jeff Wells rant about noise and Hispanics?

    Is it summer already?

  • Wrecktem

    By the way, here in L.A. I don’t notice that Hispanics (mostly Mexican) are louder than anyone else. Black folk on the other hand. Man, take the train from Antelope Valley in the morning or the Blue Line. Your ears will be ringing by the end of your trip.

  • Wrecktem

    By the way, here in L.A. I don’t notice that Hispanics (mostly Mexican) are louder than anyone else. Black folk on the other hand. Man, take the train from Antelope Valley in the morning or the Blue Line. Your ears will be ringing by the end of your trip.

  • Travis Crabtree

    And don’t get me started on the damn lesbians.

  • Travis Crabtree

    And don’t get me started on the damn lesbians.

  • Homie Cat

    @Holy Spokes:

    It’s our way. 😉

  • Homie Cat

    @Holy Spokes:

    It’s our way. 😉

  • LexG

    As I type this, a unit across the courtyard in my apartment building is being remodeled by a work crew that is entirely Latino. Started a week back, and every morning said work begins promptly at 8am. Tellingly, it’s not the hammering, drilling, band-sawing, and ladder-dragging 20 yards away that wakes me up every morning… but rather the CONVERSATIONS among the contractors, all of which are, yes, at ear-shattering decibels as the guys skulk in and out of their apartment back to their truck, usually the guys walking no further than five feet apart, yet SHOUTING in those lightning-paced, excited tones as if they’re trying to hear each other over the screams of fourth quarter Super Bowl, or in a techno nightclub that’s blasting Darude “Sandstorm” on an Ecstasy bender.

    Like, this is the dudes’ job, just hammering and painting side by side in a barren apartment building, and they’re fucking SCREAMING and whooping and laughing with the vocal timber of a guy calling out to firemen… It’d be like you or me going into the office and SHOUTING to the dude in the next cubicle four feet away THE ENTIRE DAY. At some point, doesn’t everyone get SICK of talking to each other this loudly and just focus on the work? How about a sheepish, internal L.A. handyman?

  • LexG

    As I type this, a unit across the courtyard in my apartment building is being remodeled by a work crew that is entirely Latino. Started a week back, and every morning said work begins promptly at 8am. Tellingly, it’s not the hammering, drilling, band-sawing, and ladder-dragging 20 yards away that wakes me up every morning… but rather the CONVERSATIONS among the contractors, all of which are, yes, at ear-shattering decibels as the guys skulk in and out of their apartment back to their truck, usually the guys walking no further than five feet apart, yet SHOUTING in those lightning-paced, excited tones as if they’re trying to hear each other over the screams of fourth quarter Super Bowl, or in a techno nightclub that’s blasting Darude “Sandstorm” on an Ecstasy bender.

    Like, this is the dudes’ job, just hammering and painting side by side in a barren apartment building, and they’re fucking SCREAMING and whooping and laughing with the vocal timber of a guy calling out to firemen… It’d be like you or me going into the office and SHOUTING to the dude in the next cubicle four feet away THE ENTIRE DAY. At some point, doesn’t everyone get SICK of talking to each other this loudly and just focus on the work? How about a sheepish, internal L.A. handyman?

  • actionman

    By and large, most people suck. This shouldn’t surprise anyone. Hell is other people.

    “Most people today just don’t give a flying f*ck about anyone else.” — Exactly.

  • actionman

    By and large, most people suck. This shouldn’t surprise anyone. Hell is other people.

    “Most people today just don’t give a flying f*ck about anyone else.” — Exactly.

  • Blue

    Were they fat? I’ll bet they were fat.

  • Blue

    Were they fat? I’ll bet they were fat.

  • Hip Hop Homey

    Was this dude a “party elephant?”

  • Hip Hop Homey

    Was this dude a “party elephant?”

  • COCO

    I hear it happen all over Houston….mostly cell phone conversations.

  • COCO

    I hear it happen all over Houston….mostly cell phone conversations.

  • raygo

    Sounds like the beginning to an alien invasion movie … it’s happening EVERYWHERE!!

  • raygo

    Sounds like the beginning to an alien invasion movie … it’s happening EVERYWHERE!!

  • Floyd Thursby

    “Sounds like the beginning to an alien invasion movie … it’s happening EVERYWHERE!!”

    Maybe we can fight back by throwing gobs of oil at ’em: THE BLOB 2010: REVENGE OF THE QUIET AMERICANS.

  • Floyd Thursby

    “Sounds like the beginning to an alien invasion movie … it’s happening EVERYWHERE!!”

    Maybe we can fight back by throwing gobs of oil at ’em: THE BLOB 2010: REVENGE OF THE QUIET AMERICANS.

  • Smedley

    All races, all sexes, all the time in Saint Paul, MN too.

  • Smedley

    All races, all sexes, all the time in Saint Paul, MN too.

  • Jonathan Spuij

    So you were annoyed all the time by any conversation held by any Italian while you were in Rome and Sicily last month?

  • Jonathan Spuij

    So you were annoyed all the time by any conversation held by any Italian while you were in Rome and Sicily last month?

  • Science Adventure

    The ol’ Google analytics that low this week, Jeff? You gotta whip out the dusty “loud mexicans” troll bait? Zzzzzz.

  • Science Adventure

    The ol’ Google analytics that low this week, Jeff? You gotta whip out the dusty “loud mexicans” troll bait? Zzzzzz.

  • great scott

    Guess Wells won’t be moving to Arizona anytime soon.

  • great scott

    Guess Wells won’t be moving to Arizona anytime soon.

  • bcarter3

    It’s a class thing, not an ethnic thing. The further down the social scale you go, the louder the public conversations.

  • bcarter3

    It’s a class thing, not an ethnic thing. The further down the social scale you go, the louder the public conversations.

  • George Prager

    The loudest people I ever came across was a table of young professional Frenchmen at a BYOB Vietnamese restaurant in Montreal. Bunch of boisterous bastards practically screaming at each other as they drank their Mouton Cadet. It was fucking deafening.

  • George Prager

    The loudest people I ever came across was a table of young professional Frenchmen at a BYOB Vietnamese restaurant in Montreal. Bunch of boisterous bastards practically screaming at each other as they drank their Mouton Cadet. It was fucking deafening.

  • chicagodad

    Look, for the most part, people in general have no sense of context whatsogoddamnedever. They treat movie theaters like their living rooms, have profanity-laced phone conversations on trains, etc.

    Not to go all Luddite, but I really think the fact that people are constantly connected all the time, and can now be completely self-centered in just about any setting has done yeoman’s work at destroying common courtesy.

    People just don’t understand the difference between “personal” and “important.”

  • chicagodad

    Look, for the most part, people in general have no sense of context whatsogoddamnedever. They treat movie theaters like their living rooms, have profanity-laced phone conversations on trains, etc.

    Not to go all Luddite, but I really think the fact that people are constantly connected all the time, and can now be completely self-centered in just about any setting has done yeoman’s work at destroying common courtesy.

    People just don’t understand the difference between “personal” and “important.”

  • Travis Crabtree

    “Sound” advice for all concerned…..

    If you find yourself in Yellowknife don’t sit next to a table full of Eskimos drunk on seal mead. A louder bunch you will not find.

  • Travis Crabtree

    “Sound” advice for all concerned…..

    If you find yourself in Yellowknife don’t sit next to a table full of Eskimos drunk on seal mead. A louder bunch you will not find.

  • LexG

    Poor, under-educated people (of all stripes) are more likely to be:

    1) Loud

    2) Overly confident

    3) Really into DANCING.

  • LexG

    Poor, under-educated people (of all stripes) are more likely to be:

    1) Loud

    2) Overly confident

    3) Really into DANCING.

  • bluefugue

    >2) Overly confident

    BLUEFUGUE RULE. People who attribute to “poor, under-educated people” characteristics that they show excessively in themselves SHOULD HAVE ALL POSTING PRIVILEGES REMOVED NOW AND IN PERPETUITY.

    BLUEFUGUE HAS SPOKEN.

    GENUFLECT.

  • bluefugue

    >2) Overly confident

    BLUEFUGUE RULE. People who attribute to “poor, under-educated people” characteristics that they show excessively in themselves SHOULD HAVE ALL POSTING PRIVILEGES REMOVED NOW AND IN PERPETUITY.

    BLUEFUGUE HAS SPOKEN.

    GENUFLECT.

  • John Robie

    “Poor, under-educated people (of all stripes) are more likely to be:

    1) Loud

    2) Overly confident

    3) Really into DANCING.”

    In other words, MORE FUN.

    Reading these threads makes me feel even whiter. I’ve lived in a couple Latin countries and also in Spain. Jeff, if you go in Buenos Aires beyond Palermo or La Recoleta, you’ll see loud working class people. (And God protect you if you happen to be around La Bombonera when Boca Juniors loses a soccer match.) Same in Spain. Same, for that matter, in Berlin. It’s a class issue, not ethnicity.

  • John Robie

    “Poor, under-educated people (of all stripes) are more likely to be:

    1) Loud

    2) Overly confident

    3) Really into DANCING.”

    In other words, MORE FUN.

    Reading these threads makes me feel even whiter. I’ve lived in a couple Latin countries and also in Spain. Jeff, if you go in Buenos Aires beyond Palermo or La Recoleta, you’ll see loud working class people. (And God protect you if you happen to be around La Bombonera when Boca Juniors loses a soccer match.) Same in Spain. Same, for that matter, in Berlin. It’s a class issue, not ethnicity.

  • Bob Hightower

    Jeff, your mother must never had sat you down as a child and explained about prejudice. Characterizing entire groups of people as all behaving the same (especially when you attribute negative traits to them) is called stereotyping. It’s inaccurate on the face of it and foolish and just plain wrong (i.e., unfair as well as incorrect). If you want to criticize one particular person, do so without suggesting he or she is typical of an entire ethnic group. All ethnic groups contain loud or obnoxious people. But to say that one group has a monopoly on such behavior is just false. Prejudice is, at root, ignorant. This all may seem obvious to most readers here, but I don’t think you learned it as a kid.

  • Bob Hightower

    Jeff, your mother must never had sat you down as a child and explained about prejudice. Characterizing entire groups of people as all behaving the same (especially when you attribute negative traits to them) is called stereotyping. It’s inaccurate on the face of it and foolish and just plain wrong (i.e., unfair as well as incorrect). If you want to criticize one particular person, do so without suggesting he or she is typical of an entire ethnic group. All ethnic groups contain loud or obnoxious people. But to say that one group has a monopoly on such behavior is just false. Prejudice is, at root, ignorant. This all may seem obvious to most readers here, but I don’t think you learned it as a kid.

  • Josh Massey

    I’m a big believer in the validity of stereotypes.

  • Josh Massey

    I’m a big believer in the validity of stereotypes.

  • caspermartinez

    hmmm Interesting. I’ll be posting my remarks on this ignorant fuck on http://www.latinofilmchatter.com

  • caspermartinez

    hmmm Interesting. I’ll be posting my remarks on this ignorant fuck on http://www.latinofilmchatter.com

  • Gabe@ThePlaylist

    As an ACTUAL New York Latino

    1) Fuck you?

    2) An apology would be accepted at any future screening.

  • Gabe@ThePlaylist

    As an ACTUAL New York Latino

    1) Fuck you?

    2) An apology would be accepted at any future screening.

  • Jenni who u know

    Oh Jeffrey really? I mean Yes there are Latinos that talk loud..but there are also “low-rent” white people who talk loud …black…Chinese (have you been to Chinatown?) Anyway, if you don’t like it..you can do the following:

    1- You could of told the manager to tell them to lower their voices?

    2- told them something yourself

    3- Welcome to NYC now don’t come back 🙂 IT IS VERY LOUD HERE HAVE YOU NOT WALKED AROUND MIDTOWN LATELY (sorry for the caps just in case you could not read or hear this; you know its very loud).

    I find your comment a tad ignorant to put mostly all Latinos as low rent. Btw where is there low rent in NYC?

  • John M

    Boy, if ever there was a guy who wasn’t cut out for New York living…

    I imagine the end of a Scooby Doo episode, when Wells pulls off his mask to reveal he was Don Imus the whole time.

    I look forward to the publication of his 900-page treatise, “The Mark of a Real Animal.” Perfect for Ornery Grandpa’s Day!

  • HoopersX

    I suppose if you are looking for it you can always find an example that fits your point of view.

    Generally speaking, I attempt to live my life by the physicians creed “first, do no harm.” Sometimes it is a lot easier to say it than live it. That being said, gross generalizations of sex, creed or ethinicity dont do much to advance one’s point of view.

    Truth be told, I hear just as many, self important rich assholes in LA talking loud on their bluetooth(trying to prove how rich and powerful they are) by talking loud than anyone else.

    I think Wells has a real point about people neglecting common decency and talking so loud that they invade everyone elses space. It happens everywhere and all the time. But by no means is it limited to or dominated by any group. Shit Wells, you lived in LA long enough to have endured far worse by some douchebag, wannabe agent/director/producer…

    I just figure all people who cant manage their volume in public settings are assholes and there are more than enough to go around…. Brown, White, Black or Red, White and Blue.

  • Jeffrey Wells

    Wells to HoopersX: “You say you try to live by the physician’s creed — ‘first, do no harm.’ The reason I wrote that piece yesterday morning is that harm was done to me, or rather my eardrums and sense of decorum. Those three braying, boomy-voiced guys in the cafe drew first blood. I was just quietly sitting and reading and these three donkeys turned the cafe into a Latino AM talk-radio show with the volume level turned up to 8 or 9.

    “I lived for a year [11.08 to 11.09] in a middle-class Hispanic community in North Bergen, New Jersey and know whereof I speak. New York-area Latinos tend to converse (not always but often enough) in a loud and grossly exuberant manner. They speak much more loudly than they need to because…I don’t know why. Because they fucking feel like it? Because it’s in their blood? And like I said yesterday, I’ve been among Latin people in other parts of the world and they really do seem to be classier people than their New York cousins.

    “As BCarter3 said yesterday, ‘It’s a class thing, not an ethnic thing. The further down the social scale you go, the louder the public conversations.’

    “And this doesn’t make me Don Imus — it makes me someone who’s unafraid to say what he’s heard and seen and felt out in the real world. It’s not a rumor — common, coarse people are out there in force.

    “We’re not living in a Henry James world or a John Reed-and-Louise Bryant world or an F. Scott Fitzgerald Egg Harbor world or an Ernest Hemingway-in-Paris world of the 1920s or even a Bob Dylan West Village world of the early 1960s. In many if not most of our 2010 social realms, refinement is out the window for the most part. The best seems to have come and gone in terms of culture. Things are cool in my realm — I like my gig and love what I do — but they do seem to be generally downswirling at the same time in an educational cultural Ms. Manners sense.

    “As Jose Ferrer‘s Turkish Bey character said in Lawrence of Arabia, ‘I am surrounded by cattle.'”

  • Gabe@ThePlaylist

    I wish white people would just shut the hell up. Forever.

  • Jeffrey Wells

    Whoa, Gabe…you shut me down there. You’re right. The concept of coarse and crude behavior is a complete invention. There are no such things in our world as people who lack class and refinement. Speak to any New York-area Latino working-class guy and it’s exactly like sitting at a large dining table and sipping fine wine and discussing philosophy with Gabriel Garcia Marquez. I made up all this coarse and loud stuff because I’m a racist dog. You got me.

  • Jeffrey Wells

    Whoa, Gabe…you shut me down there. You’re right. The concept of coarse and crude behavior is a complete invention. There are no such things in our world as people who lack class and refinement. Speak to any New York-area Latino working-class guy and it’s exactly like sitting at a large dining table and sipping fine wine and discussing philosophy with Gabriel Garcia Marquez. I made up all this coarse and loud stuff because I’m a racist dog. You got me.

  • CitizenKanedForPostingThoughts

    What are you doing trying to read at a cafe, anyway? Go to a library, or better yet, go home. Jesus, it’s not like you don’t have any options.

    Yes, in an ideal world we should be able to do these things, but this ain’t Eden, baby. Once you leave the comfort of your home, you should be expecting the worst (or loudest, most annoying, etc.). In NYC, this is probably doubly true.

  • CitizenKanedForPostingThoughts

    What are you doing trying to read at a cafe, anyway? Go to a library, or better yet, go home. Jesus, it’s not like you don’t have any options.

    Yes, in an ideal world we should be able to do these things, but this ain’t Eden, baby. Once you leave the comfort of your home, you should be expecting the worst (or loudest, most annoying, etc.). In NYC, this is probably doubly true.

  • LatinaGal

    Hmm. Very interesting. I was born in Spanish Harlem, NYC; a product of the “projects” (very low rent) and I don’t remember my parents nor siblings, along with many of my acquaintances, speak loudly in social places and/or gatherings. We do, however, LOVE to dance Salsa.

    So….

    FUCK YOU, MR. WELLS (11 decibels).

    Have a nice day (5 decibels).

  • LatinaGal

    Hmm. Very interesting. I was born in Spanish Harlem, NYC; a product of the “projects” (very low rent) and I don’t remember my parents nor siblings, along with many of my acquaintances, speak loudly in social places and/or gatherings. We do, however, LOVE to dance Salsa.

    So….

    FUCK YOU, MR. WELLS (11 decibels).

    Have a nice day (5 decibels).

  • YoureANobodyLoser

    Your blog post is incredibly offensive. Not only did you liken New York Latinos to “animals”, you wondered if it was just us “low-rent” Latinos who act in a way that offends your delicate sensibilities.

    You mentioned that in your travels all the Latinos you’ve encountered have had great manners but then you ponder if it’s because they have money.

    You’re a pig. I need no further evidence of such. You couldn’t just say to yourself, “These three men are incredibly loud.” No, not at all. You had to group all the New York Latinos together and stereotype us as “low-rent animals” who have terrible manners because of our lack of money.

    You are a buffoon who makes asinine observations and decides to share them with other buffoons. I will be contacting everyone who has ever published your comments and inform them of your bigoted remarks. Good day.

  • YoureANobodyLoser

    Your blog post is incredibly offensive. Not only did you liken New York Latinos to “animals”, you wondered if it was just us “low-rent” Latinos who act in a way that offends your delicate sensibilities.

    You mentioned that in your travels all the Latinos you’ve encountered have had great manners but then you ponder if it’s because they have money.

    You’re a pig. I need no further evidence of such. You couldn’t just say to yourself, “These three men are incredibly loud.” No, not at all. You had to group all the New York Latinos together and stereotype us as “low-rent animals” who have terrible manners because of our lack of money.

    You are a buffoon who makes asinine observations and decides to share them with other buffoons. I will be contacting everyone who has ever published your comments and inform them of your bigoted remarks. Good day.

  • It’s so luck to enjoy this article ,so nice.

  • It’s so luck to enjoy this article ,so nice.

  • su deposu

    You are a buffoon who makes asinine observations and decides to share them with other buffoons. I will be contacting everyone who has ever published

    konteyner

  • su deposu

    You are a buffoon who makes asinine observations and decides to share them with other buffoons. I will be contacting everyone who has ever published

    konteyner

  • konut projeleri

    You are a buffoon who makes asinine observations and decides to share them with other buffoons. I will be contacting everyone who has ever published
    konteyner

  • CHORWACJA

    I’m a big believer in the validity of stereotypes.

  • jaimeo

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