Noodles

As I stated yesterday, the controversy about the half-Jewish Oliver Stone being an alleged anti-Semite is hysterical and anti-historical and petering out as we speak. It follows that reported attempts by action-cartoon schlockmeister Haim Saban (of Saban Entertainment) to persuade big-wheel pallies to try and suppress Stone’s “A Secret History of America” Showtime series are the actions of a thug.

A Wrap story says that Saban has urged CBS chief Leslie Moonves, WME chairman Ari Emanuel and CAA partner Bryan Lourd to pull the series. Saban “said he considers Stone to be ‘clearly an anti-Semite and an anti-American,'” the Wrap story reports. ‘He has been consistent in his anti-American and anti-Semitic remarks. Anyone who works with this guy, should be ashamed of him/herself, and shouldn’t share that fact with their neighbors, or kids for that matter.”

Showtime execs themselves seem skittish about the show. This is indicated by the fact that (a) numerous reports have said that Stone’s history series will air later this year and yet (b) nothing comes up when you go to the Showtime site and do a search for “Secret History of the United States.”

  • Krazy Eyes

    Saban may come off like a bit of a thug but he’s clearly pissed and is voicing his 1st amendment rights.

    I don’t really agree with Saban’s assessment of Stone but he seems like he had an axe to grind already and these comments by Stone has given him the in he needed.

  • Wrecktem

    Krazy Eyes, it’s a bit more complicated than that. Haim Saban is one of the biggest donors of AIPAC, the extremely powerful Israeli lobby, and the well-funded Saban Center is a major component of the neocon Brookings Institute. This isn’t some simple Hollywood exec expressing his displeasure. It’s one of the most powerfully connected Israeli-American neocon voices in the country.

  • Krazy Eyes

    I know who Saban is and regardless of how powerful he is, that doesn’t limit his right to speak his mind about Stone (however wrong he may or may not be). Now, trying to get Stone’s show pulled from Showtime is another story, and one I don’t personally agree with, but in that case my issue would be with Showtime (and their lack of balls) moreso than Saban.

  • allstar397

    “to persuade big-wheel pallies to try and suppress Stone’s “A Secret History of America” Showtime series are the actions of a thug.”

    But reverse the sides in the arguement and it’s “free speech” right?

  • ZimmerY

    http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ASUS_12/5816_12.htm

    ADL say Oliver Stone’s Apology “Insufficient”

    Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National Director, issued the following statement:

    Oliver Stone’s apology stops short and is therefore insufficient.

    While he now admits that Jews do not control Hollywood, the media and other industries, he ignores his assertion that Jews are “…the most powerful lobby in Washington” and that “Israel has f***** up United States foreign policy.” This is another conspiratorial anti-Semitic canard that Mr. Stone needs to repudiate.

  • ZimmerY

    Stone’s unworthy apology from Monday:

    In trying to make a broader historical point about the range of atrocities the Germans committed against many people, I made a clumsy association about the Holocaust, for which I am sorry and I regret. Jews obviously do not control media or any other industry. The fact that the Holocaust is still a very important, vivid and current matter today is, in fact, a great credit to the very hard work of a broad coalition of people committed to the remembrance of this atrocity – and it was an atrocity. –Oliver Stone

  • nightheat

    It is kinda ironic that saying jews run the media, will have billionaire media moguls trying to censor you… it just reinforces that conspiracy theory… coupled with the brutal treatment of the Palestine people is setting up a backlash..

  • Wrecktem

    ZimmerY, the Israeli lobby, AIPAC is indeed one of the most powerful lobbying groups in Washington. So I can’t see why he’d apologize for that. Secondly “Israel has f***** up United States foreign policy” is a provocative opinion, certainly, but not indefensible. It’s nothing more than a foreign policy statement. Perhaps it’s the inelegant way he framed his opinions that you are upset about. I agree with you that words have meaning and saying stuff like “the Jews do this” and “the Jews control that” is needlessly pejorative loaded language.

  • Glenn Kenny

    “Now look at what I’m doing here, it’s actually pretty clever: I’m taking that ‘I’ve got the rhetorical high ground’ stance here, using phrasing such as ‘these are the actions of a…’ and stuff like that. But the beauty part comes in with the use of the word ‘thug,’ right? Because that’s what the Jew call Nazis! But I’m not actually calling Saban a thug, you see, I’m saying that his ACTIONS are those of a “thug.’ Really, it really is pretty clever.”

    “Man. You know who never gets a fair shake? Hitler!”

  • http://moviebob.blogspot.com/ THE MovieBob

    I don’t think Stone is a genuine anti-semite, and Haim Saban is a notorious jerk. But the fact that that kind of nonsense, stated that way, just “comes up” from Stone in regards to Jews and Israel speaks very, VERY ill of his character and absolutely makes me think much less of him. He’s not Mel Gibson, fine, but he’s still a bastard in this specific area.

    Oh, and AIPAC exerts nowhere NEAR the power and influence over U.S. foriegn policy as, say, China at this point… but for some reason I never hear that “the Chinese run this and that.” Why is that, exactly?

    Because anti-semitism is a huge, corrosive underpining to Western civilization. Always has been, and it’s still there under the surface. It’s the ONE constant since before the fall of Rome – every society has suspected (and always with little to no evidence) that The Jews were “up to something.”

  • Ray DeRousse

    And Saban’s Mighty Morphin Power Rangers is Anti-Brain. What’s his point?

  • Markj74

    Oliver Stone and Mel Gibson gotta team up. Classic in the making!

  • lbeale

    Anti-semitism is the socialism of fools.

  • ZimmerY

    To Wrecktem:

    Those weren’t my words. Those were all Abraham H. Foxman’s from the ADL. I should have put them in quotation marks.

    Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National Director, issued the following statement:

    “Oliver Stone’s apology stops short and is therefore insufficient.”

    “While he now admits that Jews do not control Hollywood, the media and other industries, he ignores his assertion that Jews are ‘…the most powerful lobby in Washington’ and that ‘Israel has f***** up United States foreign policy.’ This is another conspiratorial anti-Semitic canard that Mr. Stone needs to repudiate.”

  • DeeZee

    “As I stated yesterday, the controversy about the half-Jewish Oliver Stone being an alleged anti-Semite is hysterical and anti-historical and petering out as we speak.”

    We’ll see about that when Wall Street 2 comes out. And he’s half-Jewish on his father’s side.

    “Showtime execs themselves seem skittish about the show.”

    Can you blame them, given Stone’s recent track record?

    Wrecktem: “It’s one of the most powerfully connected Israeli-American neocon voices in the country.”

    Yeah, so well-connected that they haven’t had a fucking hit series in over a decade.

    “ZimmerY, the Israeli lobby, AIPAC is indeed one of the most powerful lobbying groups in Washington. So I can’t see why he’d apologize for that.”

    Yes, they’re so powerful that they managed to stop a guy who felt bad about the Palestinians and who got recommended by Farrakhan from being elected President.

    “Secondly “Israel has f***** up United States foreign policy” is a provocative opinion, certainly, but not indefensible. It’s nothing more than a foreign policy statement. Perhaps it’s the inelegant way he framed his opinions that you are upset about.”

    Well, to blame it all on one country is hypocritical coming from people who try to argue that these things are more than black and white.

    nightheat: “It is kinda ironic that saying jews run the media, will have billionaire media moguls trying to censor you… it just reinforces that conspiracy theory…”

    So I guess there must be more African-Americans running the industry if they have a problem with Mel bringing up old Jim Crow stereotypes. Oh, wait!

    “coupled with the brutal treatment of the Palestine people is setting up a backlash..”

    Yeah, forcing them to stop blowing up people is really fascist.

  • George Prager
  • ZimmerY

    And just so we’re clear, I was being sarcastic with my “unworthy apology” remark in post 6.

  • ZimmerY

    Wow, that New Yorker piece on Haim Saban was very enlightening. Great find, Prager.

  • AH

    Doesn’t this just prove Stone’s point?

  • DeeZee

    Doesn’t what prove Stone’s point? You think if he said, “The media’s focusing too much on Serbia and Rwanda”, that that would fly?

  • AH

    I don’t know DeeZee. I don’t respond to hypotheticals.

  • LexG

    What says Menahem Golan?

  • gogocrank10

    I will sadly concede that the Jews run the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers.

  • DeeZee
  • markj

    Oliver Stone and Mel Gibson gotta team up. Classic in the making!

  • DeeZee
  • reverent and free

    My take: I’ve been waiting to see the series, so Saban can go fuck himself. That said, admittedly Stone was a complete idiot getting himself into this controversy, but he did apologize, and earlier today the director of the ADL after talking to him, accepted his apology. Period.

  • thasos

    Stone caved Kristen Stewart-style. Incredibly, like a victim of the Inquisition, he ends up apologizing for things he never said. “The Nazi Holocaust was an atrocity”. Nothing in what he actually said implies that he thinks otherwise.

    It is a bit tasteless to compare casualties,but I will say that I do think the Nazi Holocaust gets hailed as unique (and there are elements of it that were unique) not for historical analysis, but as a political weapon to deflect criticism of Israeli policies. Like Jeff said in an earlier post, it’s very easy to forget the absolutely massive casualties suffered by the USSR, and the crucial part they played in defeating the Nazis.

    Simon Wiesenthal Center director Rabbi Marvin Hier said to the Jerusalem Post that “to talk about ‘placing Adolf Hitler’ in context’ is like placing cancer in context, instead of recognizing cancer for what it really is – a horrible disease, just as we must recognize Hitler as the ultimate expression of evil.” What a knobhead. Why is it ok to talk about the Khmer Rouge, about Stalin, about Rwanda, about Ghengis Khan, about – yes – Communist China, while Hitler is off-limits to rational discussion?

    It’s also pretty well established that Jews own and are in executive positions in large parts of American media corporations. Whether or not this means that the American media is pro-Israel is another thing entirely. Coverage of the Israel-Palestine conflict is definitely slanted in the former’s favour, but that’s not necessarily down to Jewish ownership. It’s enormously telling that Stone felt the need to apologize over this.

    ADL and Abraham Foxman get outed as the hucksters they are in documentary called “Defamation”. It’s Israeli, of course, I don’t think an American documentary would get away with hard-core criticism of the ADL.

  • Homie Cat

    “to persuade big-wheel pallies to try and suppress Stone’s “A Secret History of America” Showtime series are the actions of a thug.”

    But it’s a totally different matter if it’s Jon Voight, right?

    I don’t see much of what Stone said objectionable; putting up an economic and strategic umbrella over the Israelis for the past 50 years however necessary, has played havoc with the rest of US foreign policy, the pro-Israeli lobby is very powerful and even Presidents don’t cross them lightly.

    It’s very interesting the see the attempts made to squash Stone for speaking his mind.

  • DeeZee

    thasos: “Stone caved Kristen Stewart-style. Incredibly, like a victim of the Inquisition, he ends up apologizing for things he never said.”

    I love the irony of you bringing up the Inquisition in this context, since it’s totally the same fucking thing.

    “but as a political weapon to deflect criticism of Israeli policies.”

    Well, no none complains when the Palestinian thing gets used as an excuse to stone women or crash planes into buildings.

    “it’s very easy to forget the absolutely massive casualties suffered by the USSR, and the crucial part they played in defeating the Nazis.”

    They suffered massive losses because they picked the wrong horse. And the only thing they did for the war effort was buy time.

    “Simon Wiesenthal Center director Rabbi Marvin Hier said to the Jerusalem Post that “to talk about ‘placing Adolf Hitler’ in context’ is like placing cancer in context, instead of recognizing cancer for what it really is – a horrible disease,”

    Except cancer is random, while that kind of racism grows like a fungus.

    “Why is it ok to talk about the Khmer Rouge, about Stalin, about Rwanda, about Ghengis Khan, about – yes – Communist China, while Hitler is off-limits to rational discussion?”

    Who the hell talks about any of those imperialistic thugs rationally?

    “It’s also pretty well established that Jews own and are in executive positions in large parts of American media corporations.”

    Rupert Murdoch’s Jewish? News to me.

    Homie: “It’s very interesting the see the attempts made to squash Stone for speaking his mind.”

    As opposed to when Egypt black-lists Israeli researchers working with Susan G. Komen?

  • http://www.jerseysky.com lachou
  • Homie Cat

    DeeZee: “Who the hell talks about any of those imperialistic thugs rationally?”

    Ummm..you do know that these..oh, just forget it. :(

  • SaveFarris

    the controversy about the half-Jewish Oliver Stone …

    This is relevant … how? Let’s say Dick Cheney is somehow related to Obama: does that then give the former Veep carte blanche to throw around the N-word?

    What about “mongrel”?

  • reverent and free

    One thing that everyone seems to have forgotten is that Stone made a documentary in 2003 called Persona Non Grata which was largely sympathetic to Israeli side of the Gaza conflict. He interviewed Ehud Barak, Shimon Peres, and even arch Likudnik Benjamin Netanyahu.

  • thasos

    Persona Non Grata is bloody awful.

  • ZimmerY

    Here’s the 2nd apology that the ADL accepted.

    Dear Mr. Foxman:

    I have seen the reports today that you have issued a statement criticizing my apology – for my poor choices of words and the unfortunate and coarse way they were presented by the Times of London – as being insufficient. To be sure, there is a great deal more I could have said, but in an effort to be concise and direct, my apology did not address every element of what I said in the Sunday Times.

    I want you to know that I am categorically opposed to anti-Semitism – and all other racist ideologies. I am half-Jewish and therefore personally repelled by anti-Semitism, but moreover, I consider it an important part of my life’s work to call attention to the atrocities caused by racist and fascist regimes and policies.

    To the specific point of your statement today, I do agree that it was wrong of me to say that Israel or the pro-Israel lobby is to blame for America’s flawed foreign policy. Of course that’s not true and I apologize that my inappropriately glib remark has played into that negative stereotype.

    I do, of course, have strong feelings about the way the United States and Israel have conducted their foreign policies, and I have been openly critical toward both. But I am also a Vietnam Vet and have been proud to serve my country. As I am sure you will concur, disagreeing with our policy or Israel’s at any moment in time, makes me neither anti-American nor an anti-Semite. I will, however, be more careful and precise with my words on these matters in the future.

    Respectfully,

    Oliver Stone

  • ZimmerY

    “Filmmaker Oliver Stone and the Anti-Defamation League have laid their differences to rest.”

    “Stone on Wednesday sent a letter to the League’s national director Abraham Foxman who then issued a statement welcoming Stone’s second apology for his comments that had led the League to call him anti-Semitic.”

    “I believe he now understands the issues and where he was wrong, and this puts an end to the matter,” said Foxman.

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