Stunner
On the Amazon.com page for the upcoming Apocalypse Now Bluray “Full Disclosure” edition (which I clicked on from the Bluray’s official website), it is stated that the package includes (and this is a direct copy/paste) (a) “Hearts of Darkness — Eleanor Coppola‘s documentary on the making of Apocalypse Now” and (b) “Hearts of Darkness audio commentary with Eleanor and Francis Ford Coppola.”
The first statement is a baldfaced lie. Hearts of Darkness was co-directed by George Hickenlooper and Fax Bahr with footage and audio tapes supplied by Eleanor Coppola, who had nothing to do with the interviews done for the doc and little to do with the cutting of it. This may be an Amazon error or (don’t want to leap to conclusions) deliberate misinformation forwarded by Lionsgate, Paramount Home Video and/or Zoetrope, but HE readers are referred to a piece I wrote this morning about a related Hearts of Darkness issue.
It seems this issue of Eleanor Coppola taking credit for HOD has come up before. Gee–I wonder why Hick has been cut out of the loop on the commentary?
Can’t remember where, but I saw HOD on cable (late nineties, early aughts?) It was billed as Eleanor Coppola’s doc. So this crediting mistake is apparently not new.
Isn’t it more of a slight than a boldfaced lie? It is her film too, with her footage and audio tapes making up much of the screentime. Also curious as to why you brought up the cutting of it; do docs differ from features in the editors deserve directorial billing. Not saying that GH and FB only edited, just that i found the angle of that argument odd.
When I read that FFC will receive an honorary Oscar next year my response was “ugh! why?”
I can’t stand the guy, who directed 4 of the greatest films ever made, for a variety of reasons. Abel Gance’s Napoleon… Producing Victor Salva movies… This whole Hearts of Darkness situation… The guy went back to work the day after his son’s tragic death… Not to mention he’s only made shit in the last couple of decades. He’s already been honored enough by the Oscars. If anything they should take one away.
Hickenlooper, I can’t wait for your commentary. Will Fax Bahr be joining you?
Who else died in the jungle besides Friedkin and Coppola?
You are an idiot, streeter. People want to have it both ways with Coppola: mock him for making mainstream films like Jack/The Rainmaker and mock him for making arty/personal films like Youth Without Youth/Tetro. The real problem is that these spineless conformists are terrified to appreciate a film that isn’t pre-approved with awards and unanimous critical acclaim (ie. The Godfather I and II, The Conversation, Apocalypse Now). Think for yourselves, people. If you can watch Coppola’s last couple films — self-indulgent as they may be — and not see moments of masterful filmmaking, you have a crippling blind spot.
Relax, I doubt there’s any deliberate wrongdoing here. It’s a common mistake to think it’s Eleanor Coppola who made the film. It is based on her experiences after all.
JD: I don’t think anyone is denying “moments of masterful filmmaking” in YWY and Tetro. At least I’m not. But that’s exactly what made those 2 films so frustrating. Those moments weren’t nearly enough to make those films worthwhile.
I like the comparison to Davis Guggenheim and An Inconvenient Truth. People think Al Gore won an Oscar.
But for this misunderstanding, if that’s what it is, to carry over to marketing materials? That’s not cool. The amazon.com summary even claims that Eleanor directed it.
I was once left confused and angry as a small boy when my father mistakenly rented ‘Hearts of Hot Shots! Part Deux: A Filmmaker’s Apology’ instead of ‘Hot Shots! Part Deux’. Luckily he took it back to the rental shop and they replaced it for free.
i worry about the quality of this release in general, because the lionsgate blu rays have been a disappointment so far. for example, the TIME BANDITS release isn’t even 1020p.
Agree w/ Streeter. Coppola has already gotten all the accolades he deserves. Give it to Polly Platt instead.
Hey Eddie, you should paid the extra 50 bucks and got the extra 60 lines of resolution.
And regardless of all the back biting, misinformation etc, I CANNOT WAIT to buy this sucker. Looks absolutely gorgeous. And to have both versions (and color timings) in full remastered, original aspect ratio (sorry Vittorio) is outstanding.
“Agree w/ Streeter. Coppola has already gotten all the accolades he deserves. Give it to Polly Platt instead.”
The Thalberg is a lifetime achievement award for producers. Coppola is one of the most influential and daring producers in the last 40 years, despite his falloff over the last decade or so. He’s a slam dunk for the award, and I’m mildly surprised he hadn’t gotten it awhile ago. Really, it shouldn’t even warrant a discussion.
Streeter: ” The guy went back to work the day after his son’s tragic death… ”
So what’s your point? That Coppola did not love or respect his son?
Must you make your stupdity so obvious? Try disguising it a little. Beguile us.
Oh, yeah, Coppola is a hell of a producer. With the exception of American Graffiti (and his chidrens” films), here’s a partial list of some of the “daring” and “influential” movies he has produced since 1975:
Black Stallion
Hammett
Tough Guys Don’t Dance
Wind
Don Juan DeMarco
The Third Miracle
Jeppers Creepers
Pumpkin
The Good Shepherd
That’s some scintillating cinema right there.
“Coppola is one of the most influential and daring producers in the last 40 years, despite his falloff over the last decade or so.”
You have to defend this statement. Besides a few of his own great films, one of which he already beat himself to win a producing Oscar for, what lasting gem has he produced? His producing resume pales in comparison to someone like Frank Marshall.
Nate: “So what’s your point? That Coppola did not love or respect his son?”
No, my point is that something’s wrong with this picture. It’s just something I can’t believe anyone could do. Is it out of commitment to the film? Or to escape? I guess it’s not a reason to dislike him but it’s something that really bothers me. The same goes for Johnny Carson.
It has nothing to do with how much he loved or respected his son, but with a responsibility to his family, who experienced the same loss.
“Black Stallion”
The Black Stallion is one of the finest films ever made, especially in its first half.
“You have to defend this statement. Besides a few of his own great films, one of which he already beat himself to win a producing Oscar for, what lasting gem has he produced? ”
You’re kidding, right? What part of “Lifetime Achievement Award” don’t you understand? And why should his own films be exempt?
Here’s another list to compare to MilkMan’s (I include films that were either big financial successes or critically acclaimed):
THX 1138
American Graffiti
The Conversation
The Godfather
The Godfather 2
Apocalypse Now
The Black Stallion (interesting that MilkMan offers that up as a negative)
Koyaansiqatsi
Powaqqatsi
The Godfather 3
Dracula
The Virgin Suicides
Sleepy Hollow
Lost in Translation
Kinsey
Not to mention he (along with Lucas) were primarily responsible for the domestic release of Kagemusha and their backing helped Kurosawa make Ran.
Not to mention that he, of a rare few, actually had the stones to strike out on his own, start a studio empire from the ground up…. and basically pulled it off for a few years.
I’m not arguing that there are other American producers who are deserving of the Thalberg Award, but I find it hard to believe that anyone who seriously follows film would question that Coppola deserves it.
hey sandwich,
you said — “you should paid the extra 50 bucks and got the extra 60 lines of resolution.”
i don’t know what that sentence means. by the way, i sell dvds and am referring to actual customer complaints about lionsgate home video in general and their blu rays specifically. i hope this blu ray is great, but i won’t believe it until i see it.
have you seen it?
Coppola has already been feted for his own movies.
Black Stallion? Since when is this slice o’ cheese a classic? The ‘Qatsi’ films? Have you even seen those? They’re the cinematic equvialent of John Tesch. One Tim Burton movie (as if this is something to be proud of)? The rest are either his own films or the films he helped his kiddies make.
Like I said. Coppola has not done a goddamned thing worth noting since 1979. He hasn’t acted as a mentor to any young filmmakers of note, either domestic or foreign. All he does is sit amongst the vines, periodically granting an audience to some doe-eyed journalist who buys his cant about ‘personal movies,’ and ‘the future of cinema.’ He had his moment, and the moment is gone. He already has 4 Oscars. He’s a hasbeen gasbag. The one thing he has improved upon over the last couple of decades though, is his ability to mythologize himself. You’d think that making Apocalypse Now was equal to building the Panama Canal with three day laborers and a spoon.
Agreed. Black Stallion is a fantastic film.
1020p does not exist in anyone’s dojo my friend. It’s 1080p (or i or that matter)
Just having fun. Though the 8 & the 2 are kinda far apart on a keypad…
And by dojo, I mean consumer sets & retail product.
Don’t you be given me no “broadcast/satellite/rip mumbo jumbo baloney.
Wells to Mark: Claiming possessory credit for a film you significantly contributed to but DID NOT DIRECT is, in your mind, “more of a slight” than a bald-faced lie? What are you hearing? Hickenlooper and Bahr assembled and shot the interviews and brought this documentary home, and NOT Eleanor Coppola. I can’t believe that most of the commenters are debating the merits of Francis Coppola’s career. Does anyone besides me and one other commenter (called “creeping malaise”) understand what appears to have happened here (or certainly may have happened, depending on the prohibit the Amazon.com info)? Francis and Eleanor Coppola are using the tactics of Luca Brasi and Clemenza to muscle the truth aside, and to sell a blatant lie about who directed this doc and deserves primary…actually not primary but sole credit as far as legality and fairness are concerned. George Hickenlooper and Fax Bahr are being tarred with the brush of semi-legitimacy, of being pretenders to the throne. It’s an outrage. Now, maybe the possessory claim (“Eleanor Coppola’s Hearts of Darkness“) is just an Amazon mistake — maybe it doesn’t say this on the Bluray jacket. But Francis and Eleanor Coppola bullying their way onto the doc’s commentary track is appalling. The director of a film is ALWAYS the one to first and foremost supply commentary, and is always regarded in a higher realm or status than, in this instance, the person who provided significant 16mm footage and audio tapes and the subject of the doc…c’mon! Doesn’t a bully move like this fall under the heading of “flat-out actionable”?
If THE BLACK STALLION is a “sliice o’ cheese” it’s the finest cheese ever sliced. A great film, as is the first ‘QATSI. And I give him high marks for recording some of the best filmmaker commentaries on LD and DVD. If only other directors lived off their pasts so well, and I say that as someone who also admired TETRO.
hey sandwich,
not only did i mean 1080i like you say, i even messed up with my example. TIME BANDITS is an image release of a handmade film. while i still criticize lionsgate in general, in this case, i am wrong wrong wrong.
if it is, indeed, actionable, why hasn’t he acted on it? i seem to remember hickenlooper addressing this issue on this site about a year (or more) ago…
maybe you could repost his thoughts from then…. this really is appalling behavior on coppola’s part….
The back cover of the 2007 HOD DVD release mirrors the original poster art (and the IMDb listing, which leaves Coppola’s credit “below the fold,” as it were): “Written and Directed by Fax Bahr with George Hickenlooper. Documentary Footage Directed by Eleanor Coppola.” It’s not like they’ve been muscled off the box, or off the onscreen credits–the latter which would be actionable. A press release? An Amazon listing? Doubt it.
“If THE BLACK STALLION is a “slice o’ cheese” it’s the finest cheese ever sliced.”
You took the words (and the cheese) right out of my mouth. Like Wall-E, it turns a little conventional in the second half, but like Wall-E, the slightly conventional second half is still pretty damn good.
And like Wall-E, the first half of The Black Stallion knocks the ball out of the park. They both prove you can make a fantastic wordless Bresson-like art film about loneliness and alienation work for kids and their parents.
“. . . mock him for making mainstream films like Jack/The Rainmaker . . .”
For a conventional mainstream film, The Rainmaker is pretty damn good, especially the parts with Mickey Rourke as Damon and DeVito’s sleazeball boss, Bruiser. Jack, however, is a cringe-inducing embarrassment.
>who directed 4 of the greatest films ever made,
Kinda answers your “why” question
On a tangential note, I always felt Herzog should have granted a co-director credit to Timothy Treadwell for Grizzly Man, since Treadwell shot most of the footage himself.
To be on topic (briefly), I completely agree with Wells: Amazon’s summation is wrong and should be corrected. It’s a big slight to Hickenlooper, intentional or otherwise.
Back to the digression: the only surprise with Coppola getting the Thalberg is that he didn’t get it back in the 80s, when his star was brightest. That it’s diminished now does not take away from his producing accomplishments, which include 4 of the greatest American films in the last half-century (the first 2 Godfathers, Apocalypse Now, The Conversation) and support for significant and unique personal visions that don’t fit into conventional studio or distributor genres (The Black Stallion, Koyaanisqatsi, Powaqqatsi), and also support for unique voices on the American cinema screen (Carroll Ballard, Sofia Coppola, the American Zoetrope talent that has infused sound design, mixing, cinematography with new visions over the decades, etc).
Coppola, as a producer, absolutely deserves to be in the same company as John Calley, Dino de Laurentiis, Warren Beatty, Norman Jewison, Clint Eastwood, and George Lucas (the last several Thalberg Award recipients).
Wells to Robert Cashill: “The back cover of the 2007 HOD DVD release,” you said, “mirrors the original poster art (and the IMDb listing, which leaves Coppola’s credit ‘below the fold,’ as it were): ‘Written and Directed by Fax Bahr with George Hickenlooper. Documentary Footage Directed by Eleanor Coppola.’”
Tell me something. How does shooting 16mm footage during the making of another film constitute “directing”? Eleanor Coppola shot the footage, fine. But where did they get the word “directed”? Did the camera operator who worked for Vittorio Storaro on Apocalypse Now, or Storaro himself for that matter, deserve a “directed by” credit? That’s kinda dopey, isn’t it?
I would presume that Hickenlooper and Bahr haven’t been muscled off the box. That would be blatantly actionable. But a printed message that Eleanor Coppola deserves to be called or considered the possessor or primary auteur — “Eleanor Coppola’s Hearts of Darkness“– is a blatant misrepresentation by any contractual or legal standard within the film industry. It’s a damn lie.
And what if the Amazon listing is also repeated on the jacket/cover for the Bluray? That means nothing also? If so, how many hundreds or thousands or tens of thousands will pick up that Bluray jacket and read it and go, “Oh, yeah, of course…Eleanor Coppola’s Hearts of Darkness.” That’s something that Hickenlooper should just shrug his shoulders over and go ‘oh, well, c’est la vie’? Are you serious?
Coppola is the most overrated director in the history of American film. He ain’t even a pimple on Visconti’s ass. He’s the poor man’s version of any number of great European filmmakers from the 60s and 70s. The veneration that he and Spielberg and Lucas get speaks to the core of rottenness that sits in the heart of Hollywood. Middlebrow hacks making dross for the remedial goons who think film history begins and ends with the 70s, the most overrated era is the history of not only film, but art in general. A lot of great shit was made in the 70s, as well as a lot of bad shit, just like every other decade. That Spielberg and Coppola and Lucas keep getting reach arounds while other, truly original filmmakers (Monte Hellman, Michael Ritchie, Alan Pakula, Cassavetes) never even got so much as a peck on the cheek makes me mad.
“Coppola is the most overrated director in the history of American film.”
The Thalberg is a producing award, not a directing one. (I’m deliberately not bothering with the rest of your comment.)
Next.
Whoops. How stupid am I? Hellman, et al. never made a fucking dollar for anyone. Because that’s what this is all about, what it’s always been about, and what it will always be about: MONEY. You make money for people and they will bury you in awards. Don’t make any money for anyone and no one wants to know you. This town is a giant pile of dogshit. Fuck everyone here. I hope it burns.
On a happier note, THE BLACK STALLION comes out on Blu-Ray (complete with a new HD transfer of the 2009 IP supervised by Caleb Deshcanel) in March.
Folks,
Coppola also directed RUMBLE FISH, one of the more audacious films of the early eighties.
He is absolutely deserving of the award and his life speaks for itself.
MilkMan’s hatred of both Spielberg and Coppola seems rather mean-spirited and misguided. That history has judged them to be masters of their craft takes nothing away from Visconti, Hellman or Cassevettes. To make one great film in one’s life is a marvel. To make two or three or six? Miraculous.
I think the more appropriate way to look at it is that ‘Hearts of Darkness’ is Eleanor Coppola’s story. It’s not her film. Hardly. It’s HER STORY.
It’s HER STORY because I decided to make it HER STORY. When I got involved with this project 20 years ago, showtime was going to make it a one hour TV special called ‘Apocalypse Now Revisited.”
It was going to be basically an hour long special about how they did the war pyrotechnics. It was going to be dull and stupid.
At the time I told Steve Hewitt and my partner Fax Bahr. “Nobody cares about a making of movie, especially one that is 14 years old.” I argued that the film had to have an emotional component.
At the time, no one was familiar with Eleanor’s diary ‘Notes.’ My father had purchased it for me on my 16th birthday. I devoured it up.
When I got involved with HOD, i advocated using her diary as the narrative thread. I got incredible resistance from Showtime, and I got initial resistance from Eleanor. Not much, but some.
Once I was able to convince everyone that the film would best be told through her narrative voice, it was then and only then it became HER STORY.
Eleanor did shoot the footage in the Philippines back in 1976, but she only stepped twice in our cutting room on the back lot of Universal. Twice. For a total of eight hours.
I was there for a year, 15-18 hours a day. I was on a role to make this HER STORY. It is not a film by her but I guess it’s sexier from a marketing angle to make it look that way.
Sure, it’s insulting but whatever. It’s show biz. I’m used to being generally over looked. Par for the course.
Back to what MilkMan said out of the gate: what about Polly Platt? The power behind so many thrones it’s too many to count. Men who once she parted company with them, seemed to have lost their mojo, never to get it back. Anybody see Peter Bogdanivich’s recent turn on How I Met Your Mother?
And I misspell his name – Bogdanovich, Bogdanivich – out of DISDAIN.
An old, short interview I did with Hickenlooper about this subject. Seemed (and seems) like a straight shooter and decent guy.
http://laist.com/2007/11/29/laist_interview_73.php
What the hell happened to Bogdanovich? Does he not remember the ’70s? It’s like he thinks he’s the director Robert Klein played in Hooper.
Lots of nonsense here about Coppola’s post-AN work. “He’s done nothing of value since ’79″ ……As if not making a masterpiece automatically means is the equivalent of not making a good film.
Almost every film Coppola has made since AN is worth seeing, with exception of a couple. His bad films are usually more interesting than other director’s good ones.
The 4 masterpieces he made are THE example of how high American film can aspire. No one else can top that peak work. They are beyond brilliant, and they are beyond anything Alan Pakula or Monte Hellman even dreamed of doing certainly.
Love the guy ……
A lot of people forget that Coppola tragically lost a son in the 80s. That, on top of the collapse of One From The Heart and Zoetrope, effectively buried Coppola. Taking that into consideration it’s easy to see why his 80s efforts lack a little juice. But i’d rate The Outsiders, Rumble Fish, The Godfather Part III and Bram Stoker’s Dracula as significant additions to any director’s filmography. When Sofia drops to her knees on the opera steps at the climax of The Godfather Part III and Michael gives his chilling silent scream it’s clearly Coppola’s cinematic representation of the moment he found out about his son’s death.
I still haven’t seen Tetro, looking forward to it though.
Robert Cashill to Wells: “That’s something that Hickenlooper should just shrug his shoulders over and go ‘oh, well, c’est la vie’? Are you serious?”
Hickenlooper: “Sure, it’s insulting but whatever. It’s show biz. I’m used to being generally over looked. Par for the course.”
Yes, I am.
By the way, if you guys are interested, check out my documentary on Bogdanovich callled PICTURE THIS: THE TIMES OF PETER BOGDANOVICH IN ARCHER CITY, TEXAS.” It’s an interesting look at Peter making the ‘The Last Picture Show.’ Like HOD it’s a kind of ‘life imitates art’ story about Peter bringing his young ensemble down to Texas for the making of the film.
Both PICTURE THIS and HOD premiered together at the 1991 Toronto Film Festival. They make nice companion pieces for those who want to OD on two docs about two iconic 70s directors.
Excerpts from PICTURE THIS will appear on the new Criterion release of ‘Last Picture Show.’
http://www.amazon.com/Picture-This-Times-Bogdanovich-Archer/dp/B000065B0M/ref=sr_1_2?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1282919935&sr=1-2
A lot of people forget that Coppola tragically lost a son in the 80s. That, on top of the collapse of One From The Heart and Zoetrope, effectively buried Coppola. Taking that into consideration it’s easy to see why his 80s efforts lack a little juice. But i’d rate The Outsiders, Rumble Fish, The Godfather Part III and Bram Stoker’s Dracula as significant additions to any director’s filmography. When Sofia drops to her knees on the opera steps at the climax of The Godfather Part III and Michael gives his chilling silent scream it’s clearly Coppola’s cinematic representation of the moment he found out about his son’s death.
I still haven’t seen Tetro, looking forward to it though.
MM overstates his case a bit (how overrated can someone who ran off four legit GREAT movies be?), but he’s got a point. If FFC had died immediately after AN, his legacy would be 1000Xs brighter than it is even now.. Really this is true of all the 70s directors sans Scorsese, none of them has made a movie post-1980 that holds a candle to what they did in that decade (yes, including Spielberg). Wait, I’ll give Friedkin TO LIVE AND DIE IN L.A.
When one talks about ‘flashes of brilliance in every film’ I think of former great athletes stumbling around the field/court occasionally reminding you what they once were … while batting .250, clanking shot after shot, etc. In the end, those moments are just a sad reminder of what they were, and those directors had REALLY (and tragically) short shelf lives.
Someone mentioned that if restricted to one director’s catalogue they might pick FFC based on his four classics. Well, it’s partly because I’ve watched those four films exhaustively but give me Billy Wilder.
For the record:
The more I think about this, the more angry I get. I had this fight with the Coppola’s two years ago when they released HOD on Paramount. No one was interested in listening then. Now with this Blue Ray thing, no one seems to give a shit now. The reality is THIS IS NOT Eleanor’s movie. It’s just not. It is a lie and it is infuriating. I have contacted my attorney’s about this. And though I don’t think there is a conspiracy here, I just think is a pathetic reflection of the state of things. No one really gives a shit when put out these DVDs. They don’t know movies, they don’t like movies, they put them out to make a buck and they’re too fucking lazy to do the research. It is well documented that I directed this thing. That I share credit with Fax Bahr, that we both won Emmy’s for it. They slap Eleanor’s name on their because they figure it will sell more units and they just don’t give a fuck about the truth. I shrug my shoulders because I raised hell two or three years ago and no one gave a shit. There’s only so much you can get beaten up or ignored by an 800 pound gorilla. After a while, you have to just top fighting it and hope people are smart enough, or have the desire enough to want to educate themselves and know the truth. That’s it. Here is my rant from two years ago in the New York Observer.
http://www.observer.com/2007/apocalypse-cash-cow-coppola-takes-doc-about-his-magnum-opus-dvd-its-director-pouts
Just going overboard (as usual) to make the point that Coppola doesn’t need any more awards, or recognition; he’s gotten enough for three lifetimes. All I’m saying is that it would be nice if the Academy recognized someone like Polly Platt. She deserves the recogniztion, she deserves to stand up on the stage at the Kodak Theatre are receive a standing ovation. I mean, how man women have won the Thalberg Award?