Swing of Things
Yesterday morning Envelope/Gold Derby L.A. Times guy Tom O’Neil said that The Social Network “has a quality that gives it an edge in the current derby: It reflects the national zeitgeist during this Age of Facebook… Oscar voters want their best pictures to say something important about our times.”
In response to which Rope of Silicon‘s Brad Brevet said that he likes the “cultural and cinematic card” (i.e., championing films that clearly reflect present-tense realities and conditions), as this would have earned The Dark Knight a nomination (and perhaps even a win) over such films as The Reader, Frost/Nixon and Milk. It would have earned WALL*E a nomination. It would define the Academy and the Oscars as progressive rather than regressive and stagnant.
“The past few years of Oscar predictions have become quite boring as the conversation leading up to the show pretty much dictated the winners,” he continues. “Could it be the same again as the Social Network crowd reaches a fevered pitch?” While The Social Network “speaks squarely to the heart of the Gen-Y crowd” and The King’s Speech is “the one film that’s right up the Academy’s alley,” the game will be affected this weekend by Social Network ticket sales ” “another bullet point for the conversation to focus on.”
However, says Brevet, “true cinematic advancement in the Best Picture field won’t come with a Social Network win. Something like Darren Aronofsky‘s ballet thriller Black Swan or Christopher Nolan‘s Inception would mark an actual step forward. Will Nolan get the requisite ‘he deserved it’ Oscar for Batman 3, diminishing its cultural and cinematic significance? And when will one of Aronofsky’s forward-thinking features get the recognition it deserves?
“Oscar pundits wanting to crank the dial need start pushing films and decisions that truly change the landscape.”
Maybe you should just link to the Rotten Tomatoes page for the movie and let that be that…?
Was at an event last night where the producer of a major studio blockbuster opening over the holidays preferred to talk about the Social Network than his own movie. Definitely think the industry is going to get behind the movie in a big way and anyone who thinks that the age of the Academy may play a factor against the movie obviously is discounting the fact that a quality movie is a quality movie regardless of the subject matter or age of its actors.
Yes, The Dark Knight certainly reflects present day realities about costumed superheroes and supervillains. At least the ones in my city. And Wall-E certainly reflects the present day realities about lovesick robots in outer space, or whatever that film was about.
Does Brad Brevet think the term term “zeitgeist” means “action-adventure fantasy?”
What I find hilarious is that people put so much in an award. Sure, it’s nice to hold a shiny gold statue and say “nannie nannie boo boo, I got one and you didn’t”, but there are hundreds of great films that don’t win awards. Just because Black Swan or Inception don’t win this year, doesn’t mean they’re any less of a great film. It just means that a relatively small group of people thought that it wasn’t as good as The King’s Speech or The Social Network.
The fans and the movie goers know what films they liked this year, regardless of what some 80-year-old man thinks. I’m sure that in 20 years we’ll still be arguing that Fincher should have won over Hooper, right? Wrong. We won’t give 2 shits. All that award was something a studio could flash in an ad saying this new movie was directed by an “Oscar Winning Director”, or when the Blu-ray comes out, they can put “Winner – Best Picture 2010 Oscars” on the jacket. We know that Fincher should have at least been nominated for Fight Club, but we don’t care – we know that he was one of the best directors around back then, and that Fight Club is something he should (and I’m sure is) proud of.
Yeah, yeah, this is about recognizing those who made great achievements in the film industry by creating something spectacular, but the fans do that. The average American (or filmophiles like us) will always remember the first time we saw 2001 (which didn’t win best picture or best director) and will forever cherish it as one of the best films ever produced. We didn’t need the Academy telling us it was great – we knew it.
I’m sure that this argument will get ignored by the journalists who make a hefty portion of the their money covering the Oscar races, but I hope that the people who visit this site would share this opinion and stop putting so much stock in who wins this year. It doesn’t matter. Just support the films you liked through ticket and DVD/Blu-ray sales, and stop bickering about how X Film should be nominated for Y Category.
I’m definetly NOT in the business – so anything I say is strictly from an amatueur’s viewpoint. I’ve been a fan of Oscar watch LONG before it was on the internet – and long before it was “cool”. But I see the potential that a front runner (Social Network / Inception) is surprised by a smaller film like KIngs’ Speech or Black Swan this year. We could have another Shakespere in Love in the making in otherwords. This is my gut call before I see any of the front runners (minus Inception).
gooddog, The Dark Knight and WALL•E may not be literal representations of real life situations, but they certainly reflect a cinematic reality in the way superhero movies and animated movies have changed and become far more relevant over the years. Sign of our times doesn’t expressly mean headline news.
However, I’d argue the continued focus of vigilante superheroes is a reflection of our times, the state the world is in and the kind of movies audiences are turning out for. Anti-heroes are big and Chris Nolan has made several movies proving that. Not everything is entirely literal, movies are metaphors.
@The Thing, people only put stock in awards because they’re going to be handed out whether you like it or not. You are commenting on this thread because you have an interest, be it positive or negative, you still clicked, you still read and you still found enough reason to write four paragraphs. That’s why people write about it.
2.5 years after the fact, it is ever more apparent that The Dark Knight is THE defining film of the last decade. Taking arguably the most popular American myth of the last 100 years, Nolan spun a parable about how we, as Americans were confronted with unexpected threats and spent the next 9 years (and counting) hiding under a rock and selling out our collective principals at every opportunity for theoretical security.
“You see, their morals, their code, it’s a bad joke. Dropped at the first sign of trouble. They’re only as good as the world allows them to be. I’ll show you. When the chips are down, these… these civilized people, they’ll eat each other.”
Is there a more spot-on line about how we as Americans have acted in a post 9/11 world? From letting Bush spy on us and bleed our treasury to letting Obama order the killing of American citizens in absolute secrecy, we have given up any pretense of civilized society thanks to 19 Saudis with box cutters. It’s not a perfect film (it suffers for the 25 minutes when Gary Oldman isn’t anchoring the picture), but The Dark Knight remains a film about us more so than any film in recent years.
I’ve been a big time SOCIAL NETWORK supporter, and have defended it against all the haters, but I think there’s a film out there which can derail it.
I don’t think it’s going to be THE KINGS SPEECH. If THE KING’S SPEECH won this year it would be SHAKESPEAR IN LOVE all over again, and that is widely considered to be among the biggest farces of the past twenty years. I can see Colin Firth winning an Oscar, and he’s probably the frontrunner now, but that’s it.
The film which may beat THE SOCIAL NETWORK will be TRUE GRIT. That trailer yesterday looked so amazing. I read the script and it was brilliant. I haven’t seen it yet, and i’ll make a final determination when I do, but I think this year it’ll come down to THE SOCIAL NETWORK vs. TRUE GRIT.
ugh, TDK fans are the worst movie fans on the internet now. Can we ban all discussion of the movie for, say, three years? Give the nuts a little time to cool down on the insanity? TDK is a well-crafted blockbuster. But the defining movie of the decade, for better or worse, is probably No Country for Old Men. arguments could be made for a few others (There Will Be Blood, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, Oldboy, etc.) but TDK isn’t one of them.
What MechanicalShark said. Vomit.
If Oscar voters like their choices to “say something important about our times”, and I’m not disputing this, could the win last year for The Hurt Locker be seen as an admission that not only is the Iraq War something that should be addressed, but that there is an awareness that it has been grossly under-addressed, at least in the cinematic arena by cinema-goers?
And The Thing, I think you’re ignoring the communal aspect of cinema, and underestimating how close it is to the heart of the medium. What’s one of the first things you do when you see a movie you love? You tell other people. Why do we go to the cinema and not just stay at home and watch DVD/Blu Ray instead? The communal experience. Why do we all tune in to the dog and pony show that is the Oscars, and get even somewhat emotionally involved in the outcome? Because we want others to like what we like, be it out a sense of insecurity or oblique generosity of spirit.
And Jeff, any chance of a long sit down with Fincher like the phoner you did around the time Zodiac was being grossly underappreciated?
Miss your long form interviews, but loving the Oscar-cast.
Shark and mrksltsky:
No Country For Old Men? Really? I think it’s a fucking great movie and all, but it was just too minor-key to have that long-term cultural resonance. Not enough people saw it; even fewer really got it, and it simply doesn’t have the juice in the broader sense of the zeitgeist.
I’m not sure TDK is that film either, but it’s a better choice than No Country. The ’00s were defined by fear (and if we’re not careful, the ’10s will be also), and was there a more effective personification of fear in any major/popular film last decade than Ledger’s Joker?
@Brad
“people only put stock in awards because they’re going to be handed out whether you like it or not”
That’s a retarded argument. People only care about legalizing weed because people are going to smoke whether you like it or not. Therefore, every political journalist should spend 6 months covering California’s Prop 19, and speculate whether it’s going to pass or not based on support from certain people and groups on either side. It’s the same logic you’re trying apply here.
We don’t need an award to know which movies were the best. We saw them, and we made an opinion on them. That’s why you see The Dark Knight fans saying it should have been Best Picture – because in there minds, it was. All this awards business is just one giant cock stroking event for the actors, directors, and various others who make the movie, along with the people who thought it was the greatest movie of the year. We all have our personal favorites, and no amount of Oscar talk is going to change that.
Maybe I’m just annoyed that we’re talking about movies 99.9% of the world hasn’t even seen yet and calling them Oscar favorites. We aren’t even out of September and we’ve (pretty much) already crowned The Social Network as Best Picture. I probably wouldn’t be ranting and raving if it were mid-to-late December and this was going on, but it’s kind of ridiculous to start now.
For me, the most defining film of the decade (not the topic of this thread, btw) would be Brokeback Mountain. Think about it. A mainstrem hit about homosexuals that was warmly embraced right up until the Oscar telecast, when the Hollywood elite (a great number of them homos to boot) were suddenly so afraid of being associated with a gay Best Picture, they gave us Crash instead.
Huzzahs to mrksltsky, gooddog for his last line, and big ups to Mechanical Shark. SPOT ON.
I think the fanboys are/were SO jazzed that one of “their” movies, (in this case TDK), got critical raves and Oscar consideration that they’ve taken it to mean it’s “one of the classic films of all time”. Give me a break.
It was a fun afternoon at the movies. It wasn’t “The Godfather”.
Also…. Jeffrey…. a guy writing for the Coffman, Missouri Daily Bugle has some very positive things to say about “The Social Network”. How about a link to that review and a posting detailing his comments? What gives?
Travis, et al. – I don’t see what Jeff does with these posts as simply reproducing what’s found aggregator sites like Rotten Tomatoes or MetaCritic. I see it as pulling in specific quotes that might be of interest because they contribute to or expand on an interesting discussion or debate. Of course, the relevance and importance of the discussion is purely subjective; to each his own, I suppose. But where are the complaints when a film trailer is posed? Why not snarky comments like “hey Jeff, why don’t I just go to YouTube or that site Apple has for movie trailers? What gives?”
If your issue is instead with the volume of posts that are appearing about “The Social Network,” well, I don’t quite know what else to tell you other than it’s the most intriguing film (in terms of expectations and social relevance) of the year, so yeah, everyone’s treating it as kind of a big deal.
If you can’t see the difference in discussing specific aspects of the film’s impact separately (i.e. what it says about the “Oscar race,” accuracy, and so on), maybe this blog just isn’t for you?
All I want to know, because it flashes by for a quarter of a second every 11 seconds I’m on HE:
Is that Rooney Mara’s or Dakota Johnson’s ass in the flash ad on the side?
Travis: Nobody here called TDK “one of the classic films of all time.” We’re just making a point about how the movie combines broad cultural awareness/popularity with current, relevant themes. If you don’t agree, fine; name a movie that turned those tricks as well as TDK.
As annoying as overzealous fanboys are Very Serious Movie Buffs who reflexively dismiss any comic book/popular-themed movie as nothing but “a fun afternoon at the movies.”
Also, I second Lex’s question: Whose ass is that, exactly?
Dave Poland made mention (actually, more than mention, but anyway) of Dakota Johnson’s ass in his review, so I’m guessing it’s hers.
Yep, it’s Dakota Johnson’s ass. Poland actually wrote a love letter to it!
Dakota Johnson? Would be the daughter of Don Johnson and Melanie Griffith?
Now I feel old, as I remember when Melanie’s pregancy literally knocked her career off the rails immediately after the success of Working Girl. (But I still have big love for Pacific Heights.)
Any hot chick conceived during the same general time that her dad Don Johnson was shooting DEAD-BANG has an Awesomeness Level that’s through the roof.
I’m not sure if I’m okay with a former Ms. Golden Globe finally becoming famous.
I’m pretty sure her mom was a Ms Golden Globe too.
Since this thread does involve the Oscars, can we discuss Jeff’s Oscar Balloon entries? Shouldn’t Helena Bonham Carter be listed under Best Supporting Actress possibililties?
@Thing, I agree with most of what you’ve said. I haven’t seen the movie yet (with plans to see it this weekend) and I find I have to pick and choose which threads Jeff starts, regarding the film. I’m hovering on the point of being over saturated (aka slowly losing interest). I think film bloggers like to pride themselves (understandably) on the influence and power of their voice but end up hesitant to take any responsibility when their voice actually hurts a film’s reception. Jeff, Thompson, Glenn, Emerson, all of these guys have all the freedom in the world to do whatever they want with their site. Post what they want, whenever and how often. But is a little restraint such a bad thing? Like you said, it isn’t even October and all of this “BEST PICTURE WINNER OF 2010!” chatter’s been going on for a good month now. At this point, my brain is working overtime to temper my expectations in order to not be disappointed.
Melanie Griffith in NIGHT MOVES = YEP YEP. Totally cute ‘bait back in the day.
I preferred The Dark Knight when it was called ‘Heat’.
It was great of Nolan to film chunks of TDK in IMAX; unfortunately he shot *all* of it in joyless-portentiousness-o-scope.
Nobody thinks Bladerunner or 2001 are laugh-riots but there are moments of levity and even deliberate humour in them, however fleeting. A lesson for Nolan to learn, perhaps.
>it is ever more apparent that The Dark Knight is THE defining film of the last decade.
There’s a depressing thought.
I like the movie, but let’s not go nuts…
>arguments could be made for a few others (There Will Be Blood, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, Oldboy, etc.)
I think United 93 will age extremely well. But I probably need to review it before I can confirm that opinion. Honestly, I haven’t even taken the shrink wrap off the DVD yet. I’m a bit scared to watch it again.
I saw United 93 on TV a few weeks ago, late night, and was going to just watch a minute before I got sucked in, in awe.
It’s not something one would watch regularly but I suspect its import will increase as time goes on.
I thought Travis Crabtree’s “It wasn’t the Godfather” dis of TDK somewhat ironic. After all, what both films clearly have in common is the director’s elevation of a pulp source.
I’m not saying that The Dark Knight is as good as The Godfather (or that it should have won best pic) but the two really share the same roots. There’s this strange revisionist strain that forgets the fact that Godfather wasn’t supposed to be some auteurist piece of cinema, but rather a for-hire job to adapt a bestselling mafia novel. Going in to the project, Nolan’s goals for Batman were probably more ambitious than Coppola’s for Godfather.
Also, FWIW, I’m excited and curious about True Grit but I’m not really sure why everyone’s going batshit gaga over the trailer. It’s like 75 seconds long and it has some good stuff in it but hardly enough to go, “YES! Now, that’s a best picture contender!”
I would actually venture to say that “No Country…” and “There Will Be Blood” are the defining films of the decade.
It’s gotta be There Will Be Blood. I think in 20-30 years we’ll wonder how the hell it missed out for the big prize. Although I’m obviously a big fan of No Country for Old Men, I thought A Serious Man was even better.
I’m worried I’m going to be sick of The Social Network before it even opens.
Ultimately awards are history, even if it’s inconsequential history. No one today would have heard of How Green Was My Valley if it didn’t win Best Picture.
Still kinda soon to figure out the movie of the ’00′s for me. I don’t know; what is the “defining” movie of the 1970′s? Do you go with Godfather, or the more subversive One Flew over the Cuckoo’s Nest, or the generation-changing Star Wars?
What’s the defining movie of each decade? To borrow from True West, maybe there should be two categories, the defining “movie” of the decade and the defining “film.”
All this talk of True Grit kind of reminds me of Medellin from Entourage. People only saw the trailer, but were jizzing their pants over it. It ended up being a massive flop.
I mean, the Coen brothers missed the mark with A Serious Man. It didn’t make any money, and, in my opinion, wasn’t that good (yeah, it was well written with plenty of metaphors, symbols and dark humor, and very well shot, but I didn’t really care about the character, or feel satisfied at the ending. I wasn’t looking for some kind of “feel good” ending, just some kind of resolution, something that tied up all of the lose ends they dangled in front of me for 2 hours). I know that they’ve had some hits before, but they’ve had an up and down career. I guess the only thing that could give me faith in True Grit to be as good as the trailer, is that it’s a remake of a good movie.
A Serious Man did tie up every loose end – the money the kid owed Faigle, Larry’s medical tests, his marriage problems, the Korean kid bribing him….it all tied up in about 30 seconds before the abrupt ending, but once you’ve adjusted to the sheer abruptness you have to acknowledge it was all there.
But, yeah – people do go bonkers for trailers. Say what you will about the Star Wars prequels – they didn’t cut a single bad trailer for them.
While I’m not in the Academy, I was on the SAG nominating committee last year.
A friend of mine who blogs and podcasts, and participates in some websites’ awards prognostications (and has a fairly good track record reading the tea leaves) alerted me to this discussion.
Last year, this friend also was giving me regular updates on which films were receiving buzz from here or there. In most cases, I found the early buzz to be, well, bullshit. At least compared to my own humble assessment of the films and performances in question.
The blogosphere had woefully little effect on my opinion. More important to me were the screenings and the DVDs. What helped me the most was production companies respecting my time by getting the DVDs out on a timely basis and providing a number of screenings at various times, so I could fit them into my schedule.
God bless the bloggers for ginning up enthusiasm amongst filmgoers for some deserving small films that might otherwise not get noticed. I like seeing butts in seats watching great films. However, if my experience and perspective is emblematic of other voters in the various guilds and the academy, bloggers should not delude themselves into thinking they are tastemakers amongst the professionals actually making movies. They’re not.
More than once last year my friend would tell me what film, or actor, or director, or cinematographer, or composer should win this award or that. I pointedly reminded her that only one of us was actually VOTING for any of the awards the industry bestows upon some of its best work around the early part of the year.
Just wanted to provide some realpolitik perspective here.
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