Deke Thornton
Earlier today a friend mentioned Tony Scott‘s interest in re-making The Wild Bunch. I speculated that just as Straw Dogs director Rod Lurie discovered through research that only about 2% of current moviegoers have heard of Sam Peckinpah‘s Straw Dogs, much less seen it, Peckinpah’s The Wild Bunch is probably similarly unknown.
To a typical 19 or 23 or 26 year-old a landmark western costarring a group of saggy, middle-aged men that came out in 1969 might just as well have been released when Douglas Fairbanks was an action star, or when the Great Pyramids were built.
To them, a movie released 42 years ago is ancient history. It’s Land of the Pharoahs or the 1932 The Mummy. To them, older movies are ones that came out in the ’80s and early ’90s.
Recycling, re-branding and regurgitation have been Hollywood mantras since at least the mid ’90s if not long before. Nothing gets green-lighted unless it’s pre-sold, pre-recognized — a thoroughly saturated story or concept that’s ripe for re-packaging. Because nothing so terrifies studios and producers of pricey movies and Broadway plays as a semi-original idea, much less a fully original one. Because the vast majority of moviegoers out there (yes, here I go again) are under-educated, low-rent, ADD primitives who would rather take a bullet than open themselves up to something that doesn’t feel shopping-mall familiar and corporatized.
As Norman Mailer once said about Frank Borman, one of the original Apollo astronauts who had dissed Mailer’s “Of A Fire on The Moon“, “It would be easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a new idea to get into Frank Borman’s head.”
Why do we have to put the younger generation on blast? Not even OLDER people like older movies!
My father is in his sixties. When push comes to shove, he’s queuing up a movie from, the earliest, 1990, with maybe some lip service paid to older films if they have DeNiro, Pacino, etc. My sister is in her late thirties, and she tried showing “Superman” to her five year old daughter, and she said it was “slow” and it bored her out of her mind! Ironically, the daughter LOVED it.
Let’s cool off on the “the young people are our downfall” b.s. The internet and Netflix allows this current generation of youngsters to be even more well-versed in the oldies than even I was at that age. Meanwhile, my forty five year old brother continues to fast-forward through the goddamned GODFATHER.
Then again, maybe I have a backwards family. Entirely possible.
This remake totally works if he sets it now. Definitely Mexico. Return to a bit of that Man on Fire milieu. Mickey Rourke, Denzel, maybe Travolta. Nothing is sacred.
Gabe’s right; the problem isn’t that young people suck. The problem is that EVERYBODY sucks, and that everybody has sucked forever. And that becomes a real nagging problem for the individual who believes he or she himself doesn’t suck, and that the areas in which he or she is ostensibly superior actually matter, and that he or she can therefore lord it over the rest of humanity somehow.
That’s a funny quote, Jeff. But when’s the last time a “new idea” entered YOUR head? Because “all you people suck” isn’t just not new, it’s not even your own.
Bill Holden was such a bad motherfucker.
THE WILD BUNCH is , like, a billion times more seen and known than STRAW DOGS.
By the way, I saw it last night at a screening in pre-Irene Times Square. I am under embargo but I can certainly tell you (a) It’s Rod Lurie’s best film hands down (and I am a huge Contender fan) (b) It is similar in story to the Peckinpah film but is very different in tone and attitude (especially to women) and (c) the audience flipped the fuck out for the last half hour.
I think it’s going to be a hit. And this is despite Jeff’s shitting on it and the chorus that “Lurie is no Peckinpah”.
I do have one or two big problems with it, but it’s an 8 or 9 out of 10.
Meh. Watching this movie makes me think that if I ever had Peckinpah in my house I’d probably want to get rid of him as soon as possible. It plays like Commando for the “High Noon sucks, Mexicans are depraved, and John Wayne was a real man” crowd, and the “groundbreaking” editing and violence always felt contrived to me. A far cry from the work of Dede Allen. I’ll say it again, I’d take Ride the High Country over this one every time.
Beautifully shot and well acted, though.
Jeff’s just in one of those moods again where he feels he has to hate on someone in order to feel good.
Super Soul,
You need to watch way more films. And then you need to get a brain.
I bought both of these movies on DVD, the same day, with money I got for my 16th birthday. But then, I was a weird kid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmcrreUVBeo
Wait, shouldn’t I get a brain first? Otherwise I might end up just watching a bunch of Brian de Palma movies.
Actually, this one is better.
Howard Hawks saw THE WILD BUNCH (and didn’t like it). When the person he was with mentioned
William Holden, Hawks reacted with surprise, not realizing Holden had been in it. “That old man?” he said. So it’s not just the younger generation that doesn’t get a new film that is a paradigm changer.
“It ain’t like it used to be, but it’ll do.”
The really sad part is that not even western fans will go see this fiasco, and its failure will just be more “proof” that people don’t want westerns.
Hell, even if Scott were 1/10 the director Peckinpah was, who hell are they going to get to star in this thing? I don’t think there’s 5 tough guy actors left in Hollywood that haven’t had a ton of plastic surgery. No one’s face looks “lived in” any more. Check out The Expendable. That’s pretty much your casting pool right there. Borgnine’s tougher right now than all them put together.
the scene where the bridge with all the soldiers and the horse get blown up and falls into the water …. CGI it
JLC, Jonathan Banks is one. The man looks 200 and if you saw him you’d still give him a wide berth.
As usual, they’d have to look to the UK or Australia for genuine rough-looking/non-effeminate tough guys. Pick and mix from Craig, Butler, Jackman, Crowe, Statham, Thor guy, Worthington, etc, and that’s probably as good as it’s going to get, otherwise you’re left with what, Marky Mark and Vin Diesel?
BTW this week’s announcement that they’re remaking Flatliners officially means that we’re remaking films from the 1990s (Total Recall 2012 I guess is a ‘re-adaptation’ of the book).
whatever happened to the proposed remake of bring me the head of alfredo garcia? love that film.
DiscoNap FTW.
Chris Cooper for another.
Maybe Ed Harris.
Now we’re talking. Fuck this gotta go to Australia shit.
“Nothing gets green-lighted unless it’s pre-sold, pre-recognized — a thoroughly saturated story or concept that’s ripe for re-packaging.”
“Peckinpah’s The Wild Bunch is probably similarly unknown.”
Jeff – I just wanted to point out that these two thoughts are completely 100% contradictory. You can’t complain that they only remake things that are pre-sold and then complain that the audience that shitty things are pre-sold to has never heard about the movie that you’re complaining is being remade.
Wells to Lupo: Yes, I can. Because another big example is The Lone Ranger — known only to boomers + older-than-boomers. Who under the age of 50 cares about this brand/character? But a certain strata of older producer feels a certain resonance or pang with that name. My sons couldn’t care less. Go figure.
“who hell are they going to get to star in this thing?”
Well, it’s Tony Scott, so Denzel Washington will be in there somewhere.
Bruce Willis might be interested.
Plus there’s plenty of tough looking older character actors around, like Ted Levine or John Doman.
If we’re bringing up Banks, I’d throw in Bryan Cranston as a guy who would absolutely murder a western.
Plus, let’s face it — ‘True Grit’ proved that even a completely forgotten actor like Barry Pepper can suddenly be a random awesome bad-ass.
Stephen Lang.
You can shoot a new film that follows the first film’s “story,” but its impact will be nil because you can’t remake history. You can’t remake 1969.
It’s a hopeless task, reminiscent of the Borges character who aspires to re-write Don Quixote, line by line, by first re-living the life of Cervantes.
In other words, to remake the “Wild Bunch,” you will first need to live in the 1950′s and churn out hours upon hours of tv Westerns–especially the gritty and off-beat kind that the bosses don’t “get.”
Then you must get drunk and stay that way.
“It ain’t like it used to be, but it’ll do.”
Denzel Washington, Kevin Costner, Ed Harris, Russell Crowe, Willem Dafoe. And then Diego Luna as Angel.
Yes, definitely Costner. I think Tarantino would agree. Plus he’s worked with Scott before.
I’d also love to see William Fitchner in there.
And my wild card pick for Dutch…Luis Guzman.
If Tarantino was going to remake THE WILD BUNCH, I might really be interested in seeing it. Let Scott produce it.
Frank Borman was one of the first three MEN who CIRCLED THE FUCKING MOON.
Norman Mailer stabbed a chick. And wrote books.
I LIKE BORMAN’S IDEAS BETTER.
Hi there, Ray. Tell me, just which one of Borman’s ideas do you like better?
I’ll only see it if Clint Eastwood plays Pike.
I’ll only see it if Clint Eastwood plays Pike.
Sure, and then we’ll get Hal Holbrook for Deke. Or maybe Harry Dean Stanton or Philip Baker Hall. Hell, is Eli Wallach available?
If QT redid TWB, I’d actually want to see that, which I can’t say about any film he’s made since JB.
This movie is 42 years old. I bet the same percentage of people now who are familiar with this film is about the same percentage of people living in 1969 who were familiar with a title from 1927. IE not many. And probably the same group : cinephiles.
I know a 19 yr old kid that works at my store and he had never heard of John Wayne until about a week and a half ago…
The only people that are serious about old films are those of us who are serious cinephiles. Turns out most people just can’t be bothered.
Tony Scott: “I’d like to make one good score and back off…”
Ridley Scott: “Back off to what?”
I dunno, The Wild Bunch is in the IMDB Top 250, which means SOME young people love it.
“The only people that are serious about old films are those of us who are serious cinephiles.”
That’s silly — plenty of people grew up with fathers who liked John Wayne movies and, thus, know who John Wayne is. It’s not just cinephiles. (I actually thought most cinephiles didn’t think much of John Wayne overall.)
“I dunno, The Wild Bunch is in the IMDB Top 250, which means SOME young people love it. ”
The IMDb voting system is primarily for movie-geeks on the Internet. If it actually reflected young people’s tastes accurately, ‘Twilight’ would have a higher score than 5.4, and ‘Titanic’ would be in the 250 over either the first ‘Terminator’ or ‘Aliens’ or both.
supersoul: what is the nationality of the ONE character with morality, ideals and honor and devotion to his people, the one who is selfless and his selflessness shows the bunch what empty men they’ve become? answer please and then your review your comments about the film.
I still think the original would be hard to beat. Especially when Sam was at his peak.
His incredible camera direction that didn’t need much editing was remarkable before he sadly lost it from alcohol abuse. I’ve rewatched the movie recently and it’s still powerful. William Holden was really on his last legs through alcohol and you see him progressively aching getting off the horse – it was all real and you feel it.
It’s a sad and great story nevertheless. The dying out of the real cowboy like the sparrow being killed by the children.
supersoul: what is the nationality of the ONE character with morality, ideals and honor and devotion to his people, the one who is selfless and his selflessness and heroism shows the bunch what empty men they’ve become? answer please.
I meant it as a reference to a more casual and lazy sentiment, where noble exceptions are easier to accept, rather than as any kind of purposeful ideological meditation. I think maybe my processing of westerns has been a little too influenced by what I see in older members of my family…how they think and what things they respond to, not necessarily positive. But still your comment does prompt me to ask the question, “Why the hell did I think it necessary to post that?” Or as Johnny Ringo once said, “Oh, that. I was just foolin’ about.”
Deke Thornton is very, very good. stal rury
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