Wait…What?
“To love a film by Roman Polanski, as I know from other irate readers, is to guarantee that you will be accused of going easy on a criminal,” writes Manohla Dargis in a 9.21 N.Y. Times piece that appeared in Sunday’s print edition (i.e., the day before yesterday).
“Some of this anger can be blamed on avid Polanski supporters who assert that he did nothing wrong, or that he’s an old man now and has suffered enough. And, true, that Swiss chalet of his where he stayed after he was arrested in Switzerland in 2009 while waiting to hear if he would be deported to America sure looked as chilly as a medieval dungeon.
“Some Polanski apologists repellently portray his victim as a culpable seducer rather than a 13-year-old who was drugged and marinated in booze. Others trivialize statutory rape, never mind that their opinions are legally immaterial. Some detractors remain insistent that he should return to America to face judgment, as do I.
“Mr. Polanski belongs to a long line of liars, adulterers, sadists and slaves, wife beaters, rapists, miscellaneous miscreants and even murderers who helped make Hollywood great.”
Am I reading this correctly? Manohla Dargis, film critic for the N.Y. Times, feels that the great Roman Polanski should man up and fly to Los Angeles and surrender himself to prosecutors, face the political-cultural music, and most likely do some time? 34 years after the offense? Despite his having already done 42 days in Chino?
Hers is a tired argument that has nothing to do with movies and should be left to the OP/ED page of the NY Times.
This was one of her strangest pieces, veering from tsk-tsking Von Trier to slapping Polanski to condemning Riefenstahl. Not particularly cogent, just a lot of hang-em-high gripes.
I always thought Polanski should return and settle up, so to speak. But I’m also ok if he doesn’t. I would think he might benefit somewhat from the closure in doing so. But whatever. I still love his work.
Wells to raygo: He did settle up when he did 42 days in the Chino pokey in late 1977 and cut a deal with Judge Rittenhouse that he’d get time served and probation, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Polanski_sexual_abuse_case
Fact: Polanski had sex with an underage girl.
Fact: This is against the law.
Fact: Polanski fled America before he was sentenced, because he heard he was likely to be imprisoned and deported.
Fact: Fleeing from justice makes one a fugitive.
Fact: Even if your lawyer and the opposition’s lawyer come up with a plea bargain, the presiding judge is under no obligation to accept it.
Fact: Sitting in jail for five weeks while you are being tried only counts as time served when the judge makes it a part of their judgment.
Hence, Polanski has never “settled up” for his actions.
I can separate the man from his movies. Polanski can be a great director, but he is scum as a person.
Listen I don’t care for Polanski the man nor will I defend or excuse his conduct, but there is no denying that Polanski the director IS brilliant. Both sycophants and detractors need to learn to separate the person from the creative genius the person was gifted with.
The victim has repeatedly stated that he’s paid the price and that he’s not “scum” and that everyone should let it go.
“The victim has repeatedly stated that he’s paid the price and that he’s not “scum” and that everyone should let it go.”
Jeff by that reckoning, if a victim says the perpetrator should be castrated, the perpetrator should be castrated.
That’s why we have laws. With every due respect to the woman who was raped all those years ago, her call has no call. It is up to the State to decide.
Fact- Edward Havens is a morally confused idiot.
The LA prosecutor’s office is a den of jackals.
FACT- DON MURPHY MAKES AWFUL MOVIES.
All are equal on the comment boards of HE….
However upsetting the crime, where there is ex parte communication between instigators in the prosecutor’s office and the sentencing judge, you’ve got major problems. Why does this issue keep getting tossed aside?
Edward Haven for with the facts and FTW.
NO one will accuse a person of going easy on RP because you like his films. They’ll accuse you of going easy on criminal when you defend his disgusting, indefensible criminal actions towards a child.
Jeff, the victim’s opinion as a grown up is immaterial in the eyes of the law. She also wants the charges to be dropped, but even if the rape charges were dropped completely, Polanski would still be wanted for being a fugitive. He wouldn’t suddenly be “off the hook.”
I also consider being called a “morally confused idiot” by the producer of Natural Born Killers and Permanent Midnight a personal badge of honor. Thank you, Father Murphy.
Ah, a Roman Polanski thread. They’re like the old Disney classics. Haul one out of the vault every year so a whole new generation of fans can enjoy it.
Let me save you the trouble:
JW: Roman Polanski is a genius!
Random HE poster: Polanski is a child rapist!
JW: Is not!
RHEp: Is too!
Repeat as necessary.
I’ve never understood the Polanski defenders. I suppose if the highlight of his resume was Alfred and the Chipmunks nobody would waste a single breath defending him.
I love his movies. He still raped a child and got away with it.
No one can take away that the man is a great director, but as Havens said he is still a fugitive. You can’t escape those charges even if the victim says that he’s suffered enough.
33 or 34 years later and Polanski (a) had his Hollywood career and creative options severely compromised for decdes, (b) did time in Switzerland two years ago and was almost extradited, and (c) is still getting gored and slandered by the pitchforkers, and “he got away with it”?
Martin Scorsese was a shoo-in to finally win the Oscar for Director with THE GANGS OF NY at the March 2003 Oscar ceremony. The Weinsteins worked their usual magic of finessing a win for one of their people. Surprise! Polanski wins for PIANIST. Being on the lam, Harrison Ford accepts in Polanski’s abscence. ABC’s cameras work the room as their is a huge applause break at the announcement. An obviously disappointed Scorsese is caught furtively looking around the auditorium. You can easily read his lips as he sarcastically repeats, “Is he here?” “Is he here?” AMPAS is very protective of their Oscar telecast. Am I the only one who remembers Scorsese the snarky “soreloser”?
Resorting to name calling (pitchforkers) doesn’t make you any more right, Jeff. I could call you a rapist sympathizer but what would be the point? You’d just return fire because, at the end of the day, you are supporting a man that drugged and raped an underage girl. There is no way for someone on your side of the debate to actually feel good about your argument, therefore you make the debate ugly.
Pretty much every time some mouth-breathing, self-deluded, cineaste tries to downplay the fact a 13 year old was drugged and sodomized while protesting he “gets away with it.”
For years, I too bought that horseshit spin that tried to make it seem that some 16 going on 30 valley party girl got into a swinging Hollywood party and the poor ol’ grieving, Nazi & Dead Wife suffering director jumped into bed with her while both popped pills while swigging booze.
But the reality is nowhere near that ambiguous. Like the common predators who find themselves stammering when Chris Hansen pops out, Roman Polanski decided he was going to fuck a pretty little girl and set about making it happen.
I can understand well meaning morons like Whoopi “rape rape” Goldberg and Woody Allen who perhaps are ignorant of the facts and think this is one of those fundie American vs sophisticated, I-go-on-holiday-with-both-my-wife-AND-mistress European things. But if you know the facts and are still toeing the “Liberal Hollywood” vs the world line, then the mark on your morals is so deep it is staining your soul.
Go Deathtongue go!
“DId time in Switzerland” is one of the best things Wells ever posted. He was on house arrest at a fucking chateau. Genius, Wells.
Wow, the day I decide to come back here, the subject that drove me away from this site rears again. Wow.
My soul is fine, my conscience is clean, Polanski has paid and paid, and God, trust me, is right now taking pity upon the pitchforkers.
DEATH TO PIGS
I’m entirely with Dargis that it’s not Polanski who raises my ire, it’s the defenders who don’t have the balls to simply say “In my worldview, raping and other violence are permissible if the person is an artist. Drugged and ass-fucked a child – who cares as long as I get another BITTER MOON.” The only way that doesn’t stain your soul is if you don’t have one to begin with.
In fact, I find Polanski himself a pretty compelling person, albeit a severely damaged one. The loss of two close women (his mother to Nazis, his wife to murderers) set against a life that went from the Krakow ghetto sewers to the top of society on two continents.
But I think even if he has eluded paying for what he did to society, the “Movie Godz” have meted out their own justice for his abhorrent act. With one notable exception, since he fled Polanski has not produced a single film that captured the critical and public success he enjoyed before angering them. The exception is THE PIANIST and it was probably allowed by the Godz because they knew that making it would torment him and force Polanski to remember another instance where a stronger force brutally savaged innocence.
I think the Movie Godz also LQTM when considering the irony that had Polanski not run, even a longer sentence would have seen him released decades ago and he would have probably produced a string of hits to rival CHINATOWN & ROSEMARY’S BABY.
“Mr. Polanski belongs to a long line of liars, adulterers, sadists and slaves, wife beaters, rapists, miscellaneous miscreants and even murderers who helped make Hollywood great.”
I finally just now became a Dargis fan.
And to all the HE commenters charcoaling Wells for his idiotic excuse making: excellent job guys, my hat’s off to you. All that’s missing is some barbecue sauce.
Hey righteous dudes, when does judicial misconduct start to bother you? Whether it’s a heinous crime or minor infraction, those charged with seeing the matter through shouldn’t be allowed to go around the code of professional responsibility just because the defendant tasks them. How do you sit in judgment when your judgment is beyond repair?
“I love how Jeff can fret over “small chick/big dick” relationships like Kim Kardashian and her basketball playing husband and then bend over backward to defend someone sodomizing a pre-pubescent girl.”
I think “bending over backwards” is how this whole mess happened in the first place…
Also: It’s only “rape” and “sodomy” when it’s done by someone you don’t admire. When it’s a talented filmmaker, then it’s “drug-fueled lovemaking.” Know the difference!
Jesus Christ, I’m with Jeff and I don’t feel an ounce of moral culpability — not one. Is it really wrong for me to say that I don’t give a SHIT about any of this, but that I love Polanski’s films and that is how I judge him first, foremost and above all? That I am more fascinated by where he placed the camera with respect to Deneuve in Repulsion that where he placed his dick in Samantha Geimer? He is, after all, a filmmaker and THAT is why I am in this — to love and respect and appreciate the art of movies; that is, what is on the screen, not what is behind it, or in its pants, which I couldn’t care less about.
By the same token, why should I give two shits if Jane Fonda was photographed atop Vietnamese artillery when all I truly care about is how brilliant she was in Klute and They Shoot Horses, Don’t They? I know, I know, I’m being reckless and dismissive of the sensitivies and concerns of victims and lives lost and ad nauseum, but really, do you truly believe that Polanski is … evil? That Fonda is a Communist? Polanski, Fonda, others are flawed and complex human beings like the kind they write, direct and play (and like you and I for that matter, though no, I am not saying we are all rapists). Whether or not Polanski returns to “justice” is irrelevant to my enjoyment of his films and exclusive of my respect for him as an artist. It doesn’t even make a blip. I’d care more if he suddenly started making shit films that I care about this ancient scandal. But for now, I’d rather define him by Chinatown, thank you.
By the way, can I be reasonably certain that you’ve all burned your Braveheart DVDs and plan to never see Mel Gibson in another film? After all, he’s an abusing bigot and zealot, therefore his artistic capabilities are null, correct?
EdwardHavens
Thank you for making my point so succinctly. I hope you have no kids.
Between the jail time at Chino and the jail time/house arrest in Switzerland, let’s call it a day on punishing Polanski for his past sin and move on.
Why is it that LexG had to leave, but Don Murphy doesn’t?
Colin
I don’t know why Lex is gone. Never knew that till just now.
Why would I have to go? For pointing out that someone’s position is morally bankrupt? That when faced with corrupt government one is obligated to renounce it?
Colin- you’re a troll and a dickhead.
Yeah…. it’s clearly morally confused to think a man should go to prison for ass-raping a child – even if they make good movies.
Haven, you confused fool, you.
You are what you loathe, Don Murphy.
Not that it matters particularly but by 13 a girl has well gone through puberty. So technically not prepubescent. Still too young for consent. But slightly different than if she were, say, 8.
Ouch a troll AND a dickhead Don?
Did you have your rock-em, sock-em robot rewrite guy come up with that?
I have a kid coming in January and obviously wouldn’t want my child to be sexually abused, but that noted I could personally give a shit if Polanski ass-fucked a teenage girl back in the wild 70′s. I have a couple of Anthony Burgess novels back on my shelf and note that in one volume of his autobiography the CLOCKWORK ORANGE author writes approvingly of how he fucked a 13 year old prostitute in Burma onetime. I also have most of The Who’s discography, and recall that dear old Pete – in a discussion entirely separate to his grim child porn scandal some years back – recently recalled with a shrug and a smile that he had fucked numerous groupies who “would be considered quite young these days”. None of this indicates that I’m prepared to slap each of these figures on the back and shake their hand at fucking underage kids, but I’ve encountered too much scabrous gossip regarding the majority of cultural figures I admire, and am past the stage where I feel the need to give a shit about each of their indiscretions.
I believe Don Murphy needs to look inward or at least read back most of his comments in order to find out who the troll really is.
I am always amazed when a guy who has produced three of the biggest motion picture blockbusters of all time give a flying fuck about what a guy like me thinks or says or does. I guess it’s all true that Hollywood really does have a heart. Thank you, Father Murphy.
May “Transformers: Rock ‘Em Sock ‘Em Robots” become the biggest hit of the year for you!
Ed, Don is here to vent, just like us, because it’s safe in here. He has to let it out, and better here than on the streets, because out there his mouth will get him into serious trouble. I’ve gotten my ass kicked before for opening my trap, and it’s not something most sane people want to experience more than once or twice. I think it’s a sign that Don is of relatively good mental health that he hoofs it over to a website to spray his verbal diarrhea. As a matter of fact, I think we should all take a moment and give Don a silent round of applause.
Still waiting for one of the anti-Polanski crowd to excuse the judicial misconduct either.
Apparently only accusers have rights in their world, but defenders can get screwed over by any number of illegal/unethical issues because a kid is involved.
Also, I don’t know what the fuck Hollis Mulwray is talking about w/r/t Scorsese and the Oscars. Gangs of New York was shut out in EVERY category, including those that it clearly should have won (like Ferretti’s art direction and Sandy Powell’s costumes). I don’t think it was much of a shocker at that point when Scorsese lost, and people were more surprised/thankful that it wasn’t Rob Marshall who won.
That Robert Wise FYC bullshit really set the Academy members against the film and Marty, who was really an innocent bystander.
And I feel that Marty DID deserve the win, The Pianist a little too anoymously-directed by Polanksi compared to something like Tess or Oliver Twist. Whatever problems Gangs had (too many cooks on the script, interference from Harvey, casting), it certainly wasn’t the bravura, operatic direction.
“where there is ex parte communication between instigators in the prosecutor’s office and the sentencing judge, you’ve got major problems. Why does this issue keep getting tossed aside?”
Bobby, it “keeps” getting tossed aside (other than the fact that his defenders will constantly bring it up) because it didn’t happen. It might have been going to happen. It was one of three possible outcomes, the only one of which would be legally questionable, but Polanski fled before it could happen and, thus, it’s not a defense for anything.
In fact, since Jeff brought up slander, it’s worth pointing out that the Polanski propaganda doc got successfully sued by the LA courts for the way they presented that information, which was slanderous. The doc’s response was to change the accusation so that they were only saying it about one dead judge, because you can’t slander the dead.
“do you truly believe that Polanski is … evil?”
Let me turn your straw man question around, since nobody said anything close to that — do you honestly believe that Polanski’s action (that is, drugging and then anally-raping a protesting 13-year-old girl) is not evil? I mean, yes, people are complicated, it’s hard to boil down an entire person to just “good” or “evil”, even Hitler loved his dog, blah-blah-blah, but you can actually judge an individual action as good or evil, right?
It is comforting to know that, no matter what, Don Murphy is never too busy with his job to come to the defense of a child rapist. Seriously, I’ve never seen a Polanski thread on Jeff’s site where Don didn’t jump in immediately and repeat the same ill-informed points ad nauseum. It’s like he has a Google alert or something. He’s less likely to step up in defense of his own movies.
BobbyLupo, it’s a little too scummy to wade into this anymore, but David Wells declaring that when he told his account of what happened in the documentary he was in actuality lying “just to give them a good show” does nothing but raise more questions about his relationship with the judge and the long term effect it may very well have had on the judge’s many cases. That David Wells’ calculated flip put the misconduct back into the circumstantial realm and allowed for the slander charge to pack more punch doesn’t change Gunson’s going on the record and exposing what was a little too cozy and improper a connection between some folks in the prosecutor’s office and the judge throughout his career.
No, I can respect people who like his work in spite of him. After all, I still saw a re-release of Mad Max in spite of Mel; so I can’t criticize. But just remember that you’re directly financing his getaway everytime you buy, rent or pay for a ticket to one of his movies.
Jeff: “34 years after the offense?”
No one had a problem with Bulger getting locked up…
“Despite his having already done 42 days in Chino?”
You think 42 days is enough for rape of a minor?
This ain’t just a case of Roman punching out a papparazo here.
“The victim has repeatedly stated that he’s paid the price and that he’s not “scum” and that everyone should let it go.”
Perhaps, but then that other actress brought him up molesting her, and so I think a little more time in the pen is appropriate.
“33 or 34 years later and Polanski (a) had his Hollywood career and creative options severely compromised for decdes,”
He won a fucking Oscar and is still working with kids on-set. The worst he’s got to deal with is not being able to fly wherever he wants. Gotti never had it that good.
“b) did time in Switzerland two years ago and was almost extradited, ”
Being detained is not the same as doing time.
“(c) is still getting gored and slandered by the pitchforkers,”
Yep.
Cooper: “However upsetting the crime, where there is ex parte communication between instigators in the prosecutor’s office and the sentencing judge, you’ve got major problems. Why does this issue keep getting tossed aside?”
Because it’s a bullshit distraction?
“Hey righteous dudes, when does judicial misconduct start to bother you? Whether it’s a heinous crime or minor infraction, those charged with seeing the matter through shouldn’t be allowed to go around the code of professional responsibility just because the defendant tasks them.”
If what the judge did was legal, then I got no fucking problems with it. It might not be ethical to some, but as long as it was within the law, they did nothing wrong. Meanwhile, a black guy in Georgia just jgot executed on hearsay. Now *that’s* what you call injustice.
bobbyperu: “By the same token, why should I give two shits if Jane Fonda was photographed atop Vietnamese artillery when all I truly care about is how brilliant she was in Klute and They Shoot Horses, Don’t They? ”
You don’t have to, but she’s still a hippy bitch who should’ve had her citizenship revoked, then and there.
“but really, do you truly believe that Polanski is … evil? That Fonda is a Communist?”
No, but they’re still misguided.
Sasha: “Not that it matters particularly but by 13 a girl has well gone through puberty. So technically not prepubescent. Still too young for consent. But slightly different than if she were, say, 8.”
I’m not really sure why that matters. She was still violated by a guy four times her age, FFS.
Anthony: Clockwork Orange is fiction, and in the case of rock-stars getting it on with underage groupies, it was not a form of date-rape. I don’t condone either behavior, but the latter is clearly a form of assault.
lazarus: “Apparently only accusers have rights in their world, but defenders can get screwed over by any number of illegal/unethical issues because a kid is involved.”
If the accuser is telling the truth, then yes. Then the defender automatically revokes their rights. That’s all there is to it. And there was nothing illegal in what the judge did.
Yay, new teams! Screw politics. I wanna know if actionlover and Buk94 will pass the ball to each other. Wait, whose side is DZ on?
Douchebag Murphy said:
“Thank you for making my point so succinctly. I hope you have no kids.”
I’d kinda feel better if none of the Polanski apologists had kids, actually.
I’d kinda feel better if none of the Polanski apologists’ neighbors had kids. Zing!
It’s still a strange issue…. Don’t really know what to think about it. My opinion is: Just live on….
Don likes to vent in here because when he vents out in the real world he gets bitch-slapped like a punk.
What would be awesome? Polanski getting tranq-darted at a party, then, while feeling a bit woozy, he stumbles into a dark room where he’s brutally sodomized by Steven Spielberg.
Jeffrey’s head explodes.
@Kakihara -
“Anthony: Clockwork Orange is fiction”
That it is. As I mentioned though, Burgess wrote the “I fucked a very young foreign teen hooker” anecdote in one of the volumes of his autobiography, (two volumes, LITTLE WILSON AND BIG GOD and YOU’VE HAD YOUR TIME) both of which are ostensibly non-fictional.
Anthony: I see. Well, I doubt anyone would openly say something like that truthfully, considering the repercussions.
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