We’re Right, Rest of World Is Wrong

The United Nations General Assembly voted overwhelmingly Thursday “to upgrade Palestine to a nonmember observer state of the United Nations, a triumph for Palestinian diplomacy and a sharp rebuke to the United States and Israel,” says a N.Y. Times report. The naysayers were the U.S. , Israel, the Czech Republic, Panama and an assortment of nickle-and-dime Pacific Island nations. The vote passed 138-9 with 41 abstentions.

  • coxcable

    Tom Hagen: Your father wouldn’t want to hear this, Sonny. This is business not personal.

    Sonny: They shoot my father and it’s business, my ass!

    Tom Hagen: Even shooting your father was business not personal, Sonny!

    Sonny: Well then, business is going to have to suffer. And please, do me a favor, Tom. No more advice on how to patch things up just help me win, please?

  • jchrisfg

    Also amongst the naysayers is Canada, I’m ashamed to say.

  • Travis Actiontree

    Who’s surprised? Israel’s an awful, awful place. It’s all filled with nasty, baby blood-drinking Jews!

  • Kakihara

    Well, we all remember the the last time an international body approved the made-up demarcation of a region for nationalistic, Jew-hating war-mongers. So what could possibly go wrong here?

  • GoyisheKop

    There’s nothing unnatural about abstractly hating those who have killed your people and stolen your land for decades.

    Palestinians have no obligation to guarantee the safety and security of their militarized occupier and land confiscator.

  • Kakihara

    “There’s nothing unnatural about abstractly hating those who have killed your people and stolen your land for decades.”

    That’s what Adolf said about Sudetenland. :)

  • GoyisheKop

    Hitler made no such statement.

    Does distracting from the militarized occupation of Palestine by invoking Hitler usually work for you? (Rhetorical question – forget it.)

  • dogcatcher

    The UN is on its way to becoming the League of Nations i’m afraid. This will backfire badly on the UN IMO and will make the situation far worse in the middle east. Oslo is all but dead now.

    It’s amazing how anti-semitic the left have become, following the lead of Europe which is just inherently anti-semitic and always have been. The Jew is the last group which is perfectly fine to hate in Europe. That shit runs too deep. Let’s all remember that when some European tries to lecture the US on race relations.

    As for the UN, it’s becoming too big of a bureaucracy; too friendly with dictators and rogue states; and cares too little about accountability and actually doing anything constructive.

  • Kakihara

    GK: “Hitler made no such statement.”

    He did in Mein Kampf.

  • GoyisheKop

    [dogcatcher] Palestinians and Europeans aren’t invading, killing people and stealing their land, as America and Israel have been doing for quite some time. Do your spectres of Antisemitism (old, new and always-on-the-horizon), the Holocaust (old and the always-on-the-horizon) usually scare people into speaking in pro-Zionist/American parameters? Yes, another rhetorical question.

    [Kakihara re: 'He did in Mein Kampf.'] Print the exact statement and page # to prove me a fool (crickets).

    [Kakihara re: 'bringing up Palestine works for Iran and Syria when they get caught torturing and gunning down dissenters'] Another distraction, which has nothing to do with the expulsion of Palestinians through Zionist force, first written by Ze’ev Jabotinsky in the 1920s and continuing to this day.

  • Travis Actiontree

    “stolen your land…”

    Excuse me? Explain that one, GoyisheKop.

    Seriously… in your (their) perfect, idealized, coffeehouse world, what could Israel do to make Palestinians, or for that matter, anyone else in that region, happy? (other than die)

  • Colin

    Serious question: when did it become cool for hipsters to be pro-Palestine? Did I miss that newsletter in the Starbucks bathroom?

  • Kakihara

    “Palestinians and Europeans aren’t invading, killing people and stealing their land,”

    That’s news to Jordan.

    “[Kakihara re: 'He did in Mein Kampf.'] Print the exact statement and page # to prove me a fool (crickets).”

    You half got me there. Wasn’t in the book, but I did note some speech excerpts.

    “Another distraction, which has nothing to do with the expulsion of Palestinians through Zionist force, first written by Ze’ev Jabotinsky in the 1920s and continuing to this day.”

    Funny. The Palestinians didn’t seem to mind when the Arab countries expelled Jews.

  • Kakihara

    RE: “That’s news to Jordan.”

    Should have added Chechnya.

  • GoyisheKop

    [Travis Actiontree] I know rhetorical questions when I see them, and as for both of yours:

    1. ‘ ‘”stolen your land…” Excuse me? Explain that one, GoyisheKop .’

    Simple (map of shrinking Palestine) :

    http://bit.ly/V81CBT

    2. ‘Seriously… in your (their) perfect, idealized, coffeehouse world, what could Israel do to make Palestinians, or for that matter, anyone else in that region, happy? (other than die)’

    It’s not what Israel can do at this point, but should have done. Zionists should have observed the Balfour Declaration and not interfered with Palestinian people and lands (as you are fully aware). But Zionists willfully chose to expell Palestinians, as I described in detail to you here:

    http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/2012/11/respect_this_ki.php

    As for what Zionists could do at this point, not killing, wounding and displacing Palestinians to confiscate their land would be an excellent start.

    Travis, since you told me to go F-myself in that last thread, I’m sure you can appreciate my restraint in not telling you the same. So, bye bye, now (pat pat).

  • GoyisheKop

    [Kakihara re: Hitler said "There's nothing unnatural about abstractly hating those who have killed your people and stolen your land for decades." / ' That's what Adolf said about Sudetenland. :) ' / ' He did in Mein Kampf. ']

    So, Hitler made no such statement about Sudetenland or in Mein Kampf, (my simple web searches verified same), and you were invoking Hitler to distract from what I originally stated:

    ‘”‘There’s nothing unnatural about abstractly hating those who have killed your people and stolen your land for decades.”

    Thanks, this little Zionist gang bang today has been interesting to say the least. Have fun.

  • lazarus

    I’ll never understand the continued assumption by the wingnuts that being in favor of Palestinian statehood means you’re anti-semitic.

    Looks like this former Israeli prime minister is just a bitter old Nazi:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/29/ehud-olmert-palestinians-un-bid_n_2212394.html

  • Travis Actiontree

    “It’s not what Israel can do at this point, but should have done.”
    That just might work out. Those devious Jews are clever doncha know. All they need to do is finish work on that damn time machine!

    As for what they could do at this point? Please.
    In other words…nothing. As long as Israel exists, or more to the point, as long as Jews continue to live and breathe, the people that you champion will want to destroy it and them.
    Bottom line.

    If they packed up and moved Israel to an island in the middle of the Pacific and did nothing but farm cocoanuts and lay on the beach, radical Muslims would find a way to build (build…that’s the opposite of destroy, fyi), a ship that could carry explosives to said island and continue their work.

    And I did not tell you to “F” yourself in the last thread. I told you to go fuck yourself.

  • Travis Actiontree

    Being in favor of Palestinian statehood doesn’t make somebody “antisemitic” per se. Wanting Israel to disappear from the face of the planet does. I think. I dunno, ask GoyishKop.

    Since I don’t live there, I’m all in favor of statehood. Then, when they continue to blow up pizza parlors in Tel Aviv and lob rockets at Haifa apologists will have to come up with more excuses for them.

    And who’s a wingnut?

    Heeeyyyy!

  • Jack Razor

    Good old US of A, still the slaves of Israel.

  • MechanicalShark

    Jesus dick, you guys are terrible. This is unambiguously good news, and yet you’re making Holocaust and Hitler comparisons. Fuck you. Hamas may be terrible, but the Palestinian people deserve dignity and respect, something the Israelis refuse to give them. Don’t give me that shit about Palestinians being a threat to Israel. They’re not. Israelis have bought into this idea that they’re innately superior and just and anyone against them is evil, so they’re not giving Palestinians anything at all.
    Kakihara, you’re a piece of shit.

  • Kakihara

    lazarus: “I’ll never understand the continued assumption by the wingnuts that being in favor of Palestinian statehood means you’re anti-semitic. ”

    I’m personally not in favor of people who shoot up the Olympics and a cruise liner being given anything until they at least pay damages. Even Que Daffy did that after Lockerbie.

    GK: “Simple (map of shrinking Palestine) :”

    You do know part of that shit never belong to the Palestinians in the first place, right?

    “Zionists should have observed the Balfour Declaration and not interfered with Palestinian people and lands (as you are fully aware). ”

    They didn’t interfere. The Palestinians were the ones shooting and blowing up everyone who was minding their own business.

    “As for what Zionists could do at this point, not killing, wounding and displacing Palestinians to confiscate their land would be an excellent start.”

    It’s only ok when the Lebanese and Egyptians do so.

    “So, Hitler made no such statement about Sudetenland or in Mein Kampf,”

    Not explicitly, but…

  • Kakihara

    Shark: “Hamas may be terrible, but the Palestinian people deserve dignity and respect, something the Israelis refuse to give them.”

    Yeah, because they when they brainwash their children to kill Jews when they grow up, the Palestinians are totally being respectful.

    “Don’t give me that shit about Palestinians being a threat to Israel. They’re not.”

    Their rocket launchers hitting Jerusalem suggest otherwise. The only group better armed than them right now are the Mexican drug gangs. But no one calls people in the latter category “victims”.

  • Rashad

    Israel and Palestine are both awful. Couldn’t give a shit about either, and picking a side as a neutral observer is idiotic

  • troothy

    Gotta love Jeff. He wanted a thread that attacked a certain people and got it. Now the thread he posted titled “Jews” about Spielberg’s film makes sense. Has he ever apologised for or explained that one?

  • MAGGA

    I think throwing the words anti-semitic around whenever someone critisises Israeli policies does a terrible disservice to Israel. That’s all people say in discussions like this. Few facts, just accusations of hatred. As if it’s anti-American to be against the Iraq war or anti-Europe to be against universal health care. At least ten times more Palestinians died in this conflict than Israelis, and while i googled this map and have no idea what if the web site posting it is bullshit, the picture itself is used all over the place and tells a bit of a story:
    http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/photos/maps/landloss.html

  • MechanicalShark

    See, sane people? If you wanted any more confirmation Kakihara is an enormous piece of shit, there it is. Right there. Hamas is not the Palestinians. If you had any sense or human decency, you’d know this to be true. I’m not saying Hamas isn’t terrible, but Israelis have treated Palestinians like shit for over 60 years, and then act surprised when some of them lash out in anger.

  • Thunder Redux

    Notice how every Jew hater starts with “I’m not saying Hamas isn’t terrible, but….”

    Gotta love the Jew haters. Funny how the Jew haters are the same ones who profess to hate racism.

  • ghost of a ghost

    Speaking of Hitler, I’m reminded of loony anti-American pacifists who, when pressed about what they think would have been the proper response to Hitler, can’t get past insisting that we should have built a time machine so we could go back and redo the Treaty of Versailles.

    I think we’re finally gonna have put the timesharing option on the table.

  • Redbeard

    So, apparently, Jews are the one ethnic group dulouz doesn’t hate.

  • jchrisfg

    Thuinder Redux: I just don’t get why supporting Palestine being recognized as an “observatory non-member” at the UN means one hates Jews.

    I don’t get why Palestine should suffer consequences and blowbacks from Israel, the US, Canada, etc. for having the “audacity” of formulating the request at the UN.

    I’m not going to get in the complexity of this conflict because it is beyond me, but the analogy I use to help me understand this episode: If you have a large family and two siblings keep fighting and fighting and fighting, and this goes on for years, you don’t just lock them in a room and wait until they figure out an agreement on their own and just have open lines of public discussion with one party and ignore and isolate the other. You bring them to the family kitchen table and you have an open dialogue with cooler heads and you go through the issues. And even if the family meeting discussion doesn’t result in a definitive solution, in my view, in no way is this attempt detrimental to either party.

  • bluefugue

    >It’s amazing how anti-semitic the left have become, following the lead of Europe which is just inherently anti-semitic and always have been.

    Why is it anti-semitic to oppose Israel’s policies?

  • ghost of a ghost

    “Why is it anti-semitic to oppose Israel’s policies?”

    Just think of it as “Critical Semitic Theory.”

  • Ray DeRousse

    Excuse me, but hasn’t this “war” been going on for about 1,000 years already?

    Also, aren’t Israel, Palestine, and the Middle East on the other side of a vast body of water?

    And aren’t they all countries independent of the United States?

    SO WHO CARES WHAT THEY DO OVER THERE?

  • Scylax

    This is a symbolic gesture, at best. So relax, nuclear armed Israel with the full economic and military backing of the most powerful nation on earth, isn’t going anywhere.

  • Kakihara

    Mechnical: “If you wanted any more confirmation Kakihara is an enormous piece of shit, there it is. Right there. Hamas is not the Palestinians.”

    No, but there’s never been a non-terrorist group that the Palestinians didn’t support. That’s why they dropped Arafat after he started going “rogue” on them, and actually tried to make peace with Israel.

    Jchris: “I just don’t get why supporting Palestine being recognized as an “observatory non-member” at the UN means one hates Jews.”

    Well, when you’re basically enabling their lobbying group to argue that Israel has no legal or moral right to exist, then it’s kind of hard to pretend that you give a fuck about the Jewish perspective. Although in their defense, some people in that body genuinely want to believe that these shakedown artists are serious about turning legit.

  • Kakihara

    >That’s why they dropped Arafat after he started >going “rogue” on them, and actually tried to make >peace with Israel.

    Wanted to add, but they’re hoping to blame his death on a poison from Israel, because that’s the only thing Jews are good at, don’t ya know? Since it’s totally in their interest to kill off the one guy representing the Palestinians who was willing to “negotiate” at all.

  • N Diezl

    It is so obvious reading through this who has a dog in this fight and who doesn’t.

    And yes, that was a veiled reference to my man, Mr. Gibson.

  • GoyisheKop

    Kakihara has thankfully abandoned ‘Winning through Hitler quotes’ but, sadly/predictably, spent the day confirming the Hasbara tropes I described here back on November 20 [a rational summary worth repeating].

    ————

    Zionist jews (with ample American support) have been killing these people and stealing their land for decades. We won’t see an Apple-authorized app alerting the world to that.

    Zionist leaders WERE alerted that colonization of Palestine would immediately result in conflict by the exhaustive King-Crane Commission of 1919. Even the earlier 1917 Balfour Declaration stated that Zionists were not to interfere with the Palestinian population.

    Zionist jews thus inserted their own into the most known-to-be unsafe region of the world for them to call a home. This home, Israel, was determined back in the Zionist writings of the 1920’s to expand by expelling ‘arabs’ (long before the crisis of NAZIsm). The leading proponent of that ‘Iron Wall’ policy (Ze’ev Jabotinsky) was and is widely memorialized in Israel, and his Zionist youth group ‘Betar’ survives to this day.

    There were no terrorist groups in the Palestinian region before The Irgun, The Haganah, The Palmach, The Stern Gang/Lehi: all were Zionist jewish terrorist groups.

    Defending what is left of Palestine from colonial and militarized occupation is not terrorism. Many Hebrews lived in Palestine peacefully before pre-Israel’s Zionist jews began their organized bombing of civilian targets in Palestine.

    Zionist hasbara (propaganda, not literally ‘to teach’) states that Palestine never existed and doesn’t exist, even after pre-Israel’s leading Zionists’ ‘Palestine or nothing’ designs, leading to a NAZI delegation to Palestine in 1933.

    The Zionist allegiance with the NAZI regime to colonize Palestine is well-documented in books like “The Transfer Agreement” and “51 Documents” (both written by jews and remain undisputed). Germany’s leading Zionists were never subjected to NAZI POW/labor camp internment, you may notice.

    Israel, in the biblical era and sense, was another colonization through tribal warfare (if you believe anything supposedly written thousands of years ago by primitive means actually survived with any accuracy intact).

    So, yes, Zionist jews willfully started the now-endless Palestinian problem, by all accounts. Of course, anyone discussing these irrefutable facts gets smeared, slurred and gang-banged by pro-Israel mindsets having their predictable cognitive dissonance meltdown.

    Whether you’re rooting for sophisticated missiles or improvised rockets, history will favor the pacifists, hasbara-busters and truth-speakers in this matter, as it does all matters of tribal warfare and militarized colonialism of the indigenous.

    Trust.
    ————

    Addendum : regarding the Zionist Hasbara that Palestine never existed and doesn’t exist:

    http://btd.palestine-studies.org/

    A photographic history of the Palestinians, 1876-1948

  • troothy

    Don’t trust anyone with the alias “GoyisheKop” who implies that he knows Mein Kampf frontwards and backwards.

  • ghost of a ghost

    GoyisheKop cites two books that he calls “undisputed” which pin the blame for World War II on the Jews. I’d like to know who he thinks brought down the World Trade Center.

  • GoyisheKop

    [troothy] Rather, don’t trust anyone with the alias “troothy” who lies about someone knowing ‘Mein Kampf frontwards and backwards’ to smear them. Or anyone, like Kakihara , trying to win points by linking Hitler quotes and knowledge of ‘Mein Kampf’.

    Kakihara lied about a statement I made being from ‘Mein Kampf’ and, while I expected it was a lie, I did a simple web search to verify that Kakihara’s claim was patently false. That web search was stated on this very page, as ‘troothy’ knows. I have not read ‘Mein Kampf’, not even once.

    Lies, smears, slurs and ad-hominem attacks are to be expected when busting Zionist Hasbara…nothing new to see here. Move along.

  • GoyisheKop

    [ghost of a ghost]. The two books I cited above document the links between the Zionist effort and NAZIism, and do not blame WWII on jews. Both books are written by jews and remain undisputed.

    Falsehoods are to be expected when busting Zionist Hasbara…nothing new to see here. Move along.

    (valid question: How many sockpuppets are running, and have run, in this HE thread?)

  • ghost of a ghost

    Sure, and somebody could write a book “documenting” the links between Native Americans and the US government throughout the 1800s. We’ve proven complicity!

    The authors claim that the Jews declared “war” on Germany first, and that if the Zionists hadn’t interfered with a boycott of Germany the Nazi regime would have collapsed. Damn those Jews!

    As far as being written by Jews and being undisputed…well, now it’s been disputed, and the Jewish authorship proves nothing. Many conspiracy theorists spin yarns about their own people. It sells books!

  • GoyisheKop

    [ghost of a ghost] You clearly have not read either book I cited.

    “The Transfer Agreement” does not detail Zionists interfering with the jewish boycott on German goods at all, rather exploiting it for their ambitions for Palestine.

    “51 Documents” is literally an ‘as is’ collection of documents with prefaces and doesn’t provide a narrative of the Zionist efforts, interferences or any speculation on how the NAZI regime could have collapsed.

    Do you really think that smearing me as a ‘pin the blame for World War II on the Jews’/’WTC conspiracy’ nut/extremist, even if successful, would somehow make me worse than a collective of Zionists killing, wounding and displacing people for decades to confiscate their land?

    Any further responses from you (or obvious sockpupets) will be automoatically considered deliberate falsehoods, like your previous two posts, and will not be addressed.

    Nothing new to see here. Move along.

  • MechanicalShark

    This here is why posting anything even tangentially related to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is a bad idea, Jeff. You just draw out the absolute lunatics on both sides of the issue. Also, another futile plee: ban Kakihara, he’s a piece of shit.

  • ghost of a ghost

    Well that’s the last time I trust a Book of the Month review on Stormfront.

  • GoyisheKop

    Well, one of Kakihara’s more volatile statements (#10) was just pulled from the conversation, removing the context of my respose (which is why one investing time in these types of discussions should regularly save to file).
    ————————————
    ‘”Does distracting from the militarized occupation of Palestine by invoking Hitler usually work for you? ”

    No, but bringing up Palestine works for Iran and Syria when they get caught torturing and gunning down dissenters.

    Posted by Kakihara Author Profile Page at November 29, 2012 10:59 PM

  • troothy

    GoyisheKop, unless the Google search is verbatim, your charge that “Hitler said no such thing” is spurious. In order to honestly know if he never said something as certain as you did, you would have had to read his book.

  • troothy

    Why is that statement by Kakihara deemed “volatile.”

  • troothy

    GoyisheKop, do you loathe Hitler as much as you loathe Zionism? Just askin’.

  • GoyisheKop

    [troothy] re: “In order to honestly know if he never said something as certain as you did, you would have had to read his book.”

    You continue your attempts to associate me with Hitler’s mindset, while those obvious pro-Israel in this discussion are the ones who have stated knowledge of Hitler’s writings. One even stated they read a book review from Stormfront (instead of just admitting they lied and pulled supposed literary knowledge out of thin air).

    The fact that I had no prior knowledge of Hitler’s statements about Sudetenland, or his writings in ‘Mein Kampf’, made me 99% certain that there was no chance I was saying the exact same thing. Simple web searches using the significant keywords confirmed the remaining 1%. Kakihara’s inability to provide the actual quote confirmed her lie about my statement being from ‘Mein Kampf’ 100% twice-over. You’re not complaining about Kakihara claiming to know ‘Mein Kampf’ or ‘ghost of a ghost’ reading a Stormfront book review. Being pro-Israel seemingly makes absorbing the NAZI thought process an okay thing, and might help to explain that NAZI-Zionist collaboration in the two books I cited.

    I already stated firmly that I have never read ‘Mein Kampf’, not even once, and you chose not to believe it, calling it ‘spurious’ as to pose another question to associate me with Hitler’s ideologies. Your agenda is clear, and your alias ‘troothy’ a clever one..

    The Israel apologists’ “Insinuate, question, slur, smear, accuse, corner, associate with Hitler” mantra thus say much more about pro-Zionists than it ever will about me. Every long-term drinker, or drug abuser, eventually develops a face that shows that history, and chronic liars develop a voice that instantly tells all in much the same way. Every institutionalized criminal collective trying to evade international law (like Zionists killing people to steal their land – for decades) requires a flotilla of liars, and the visible effect of chronic truth abuse is not a coincidental one.

    [troothy] re: ‘ Why is that statement by Kakihara deemed “volatile.” ‘

    Kakihara claimed that “bringing up Palestine works for Iran and Syria” works for her in a direct response to a question whether “distracting from the militarized occupation of Palestine by invoking Hitler” works for her. A volatile comparison, and Kakihara’s post #10 must have been removed from this HE thread for a reason. But you’re clearly very clever, and must know why already.

    [troothy] re: ‘GoyisheKop, do you loathe Hitler as much as you loathe Zionism? Just askin’.’

    I think Hitler’s core ideologies, and militarized Zionism killing people to steal their land, are both reprehensible and loathable. The connections between Zionism’s designs for colonizing Palestine through an ‘Iron Wall’, and the ambitions of the NAZI regime, are not surprising to me in that regard.

    Israel’s apologists have taken such a bath in NAZIism in order to smear their critics with it, that they’ve surely become what they hated the most; not unlike like a herd of lemmings jumping off a cliff (setting any notion of militarized Zionist/jewish supremacy right back three millennia). Fascism burying itself is usually the way it goes. But, again, you’re very clever, and should know that already.

    So, you’re three insinuating baitings have had me spend lots of time in honor of your attention. I have an even better deal for you: I’m now putting this lengthy HE thread to bed, and you and/or others can pose all the insinuating claims, questions, slurs, smears and accusations about me you want here. Maybe defiant Zionists can clone my alias and start posting to Stormfront or whatever visibly extremist/nut forum does the job. Whatever distracts from militarized Zionist jews killing, wounding and displacing Palestinians in order to confiscate their land. Whatever distracts. That’s usually the way it goes (until international law finally obstructs these crimes), I’m afraid.

    Patience.

  • ghost of a ghost

    I’m sure everyone has packed up and left by now, but since it was brought up….

    It appears my sense of humor is lost on GoyisheKop. While the books he cites are indeed crowd favorites on Stormfront (a simple google search will reveal this), I did not in fact read a book review there.

    Regarding his assertion:
    “The Transfer Agreement” does not detail Zionists interfering with the jewish boycott on German goods at all, rather exploiting it for their ambitions for Palestine.

    From the introduction to the 2009 edition, by the author Edwin Black:
    In return, Zionists would halt the worldwide Jewish-led anti-nazi boycott that threatened to topple the Hitler regime in its first year.

    In fairness, Edwin Black may be a more serious and thoughtful historical critic than some people (on both sides) portray him, and I may have misjudged him by relying on what both his supporters and his detractors claim he says. Later in the same introduction he writes:
    An hour does not go by when the book and the topic is not debated, misused, and misquoted by the enemies of Israel and deniers of the Holocaust.