Take Your Pick: (a) Trump Is Really Pissed, (b) Yellow Peril, or (c) The Beatles’ “Golden Showers”

Donald Trump news conference comment on last night’s unsubstantiated Moscow golden showers report: “It’s all fake news. It’s phony stuff. It didn’t happen. It was gotten by opponents of ours. It was a group of opponents who got together…sick people, and they put that crap together. I’m also very much a germaphobe by the way.”

1.10, 6:34 pm: I really wish that the unverified secret dossier that was passed along last week to President Obama and President-Elect Trump by American intelligence agencies and which contained “compromising and salacious personal information about Mr. Trump,” according to a N.Y. Times story, could be satisfactorily vetted. But apparently that’s not in the cards. I’m very, very sorry about that.

It nonetheless feels awfully good to be one of thousands (tens of thousands?) of outlets currently passing along the portion of the dossier that says that during a trip to Moscow Trump ordered sex workers to perform a “golden showers” show in his presence — i.e., a term that means being pissed on or watching girls piss directly in front of you. The scenario in question appears to allude to the latter but you never know.

Excerpt: “Trump‘s (perverted) conduct in Moscow included hiring the presidential suite of the Ritz Carlton Hotel, where he knew President and Mrs. Obama (who he hated) had stayed on one of their official trips to Russia, and defiling the bed where they had slept by employing a number of prostitutes to perform a ‘golden showers’ (urination) show in front of him,” the report read. “The hotel was known to be under FSB control with microphones and concealed cameras in all the main rooms to record anything they wanted to.”

Again — it’s very unfortunate that the dossier in question apparently can’t be verified. Good on Buzzfeed for posting it.

  • Geoff

    Trump’s a notorious germaphobe, so I’d have to go with it being more of a “show” so to speak.

    • Michael Gebert

      Is that a New York thing? I remember being in a fairly nice hotel on the UWS in the early 90s (i.e. before internet porn took off) and as soon as I turn on the TV, the first thing I get is ads for 976-PEEE (“The extra E is for more pee!”) They had not heard of this in Kansas then, I’m pretty sure.

    • Mark Henry Hopper

      He’s also dumb enough and watches enough bad tv to probably believe in the ‘urine is an antiseptic’ malarky.

  • Pete Miesel

    The more important part of that dossier is the charge that Trump’s campaign was meeting with Russian officials about the DNC leaks.

    • Mr. F.

      You’ve got that exactly right… and in theory, it will be much easier to prove Trump’s lawyer met with Russian intelligence in Prague. Hopefully everyone gets over the “golden showers” stuff by tomorrow and focuses on that… because that’s what will change things if proved.

      • Michael Gebert

        It will also be easier to prove he wasn’t in Prague then, if he wasn’t.

        • Mr. F.

          Sure, leave it to a lawyer to be totally honest on Twitter.

          Very convenient that he went to Italy in July on vacation. We’ll see how carefully he can document his time there… any no, his posting his passport (also on Twitter) doesn’t count.

          • Michael Gebert

            I know every time I’ve gone to Italy, it was really to meet the KGB in Prague, not to eat Italian food and look at art. Totally. That’s some Clarence Darrow shit right there.

        • Mark Henry Hopper

          *Looks at passport, searches for Czech Republic stamp that surely must exist because I was there for a week in 2012*

          Oh right, there isn’t one, because last time I was in Europe I landed in France(which gave me the passport stamp), flew to Berlin, Germany(no stamp, no one checked my passport after I exited the plane), took the train to Prague(no stamp, no one checked my passport at any point).

          It’s all in the Schengen Area so as long as you enter into one country legally you don’t need to show your ID to travel in-between them… it’s one of the big things the EU has going for it.

          You can drive between the different countries and as long as some police officer doesn’t stop you(and frankly in Europe I never really see that happening) you can go anywhere in the Schengen Area without a passport being stamped.

          So whether it’s true or not, his entire denial is laughable on its face because it proves nothing. And anyone who’s traveled between countries in the EU in the past 15 or so years would know this.

          • Michael Gebert

            You’re assuming there’s no way he can prove he was somewhere else the entire time. I can demonstrate pretty convincingly I wasn’t in Prague in any given week of 2012 several different ways. We shall see, but it’s funny how many people raced to assume there’s no way an American can prove he wasn’t meeting with the KGB at any given moment. Because they want to believe it, obviously, as you plainly do.

            • otto

              The key will not be the “when,” but whether he (the lawyer) had the communications described. I would guess that someone is looking into this.

              • Michael Gebert
                • otto

                  Eh, I wouldn’t be so eager to buy into the counter-narrative yet. I am late to this story, apparently, but it is not the Prague detail, in isolation, that I find problematic. It is the larger question – that the Russians have been cultivating a relationship w/ Trump, and that this is legitimate enough that the intelligence agencies found it credible enough to raise it in an intelligence briefings. THAT gives this story a whole new dimension. THAT signifies they have vetted this account, to some degree. That is something I would think you would be concerned with as well.

                  • Michael Gebert

                    I am, but I am not impressed by any dimwit who is screaming “AHA GOTCHA!” on Twitter right now. Odds are Buzzfeed is full of crap but the actual case is not entirely wrong, in which case, they have just inoculated Trump against much of it. Good going. Hillary should have campaigned in Wisconsin and Michigan.

                    • Magga

                      That’s exactly it, to the point where you could almost imagine Trump planting the story (I in no way believe that, just illustrating the effects). It’s funny, though, because I think many of us can imagine Trump doing exactly that

                    • Michael Gebert

                      Many of us have seen too many movies.

                    • We really need a place where we can go to get away from them for a while.

                    • Magga

                      I know, and I mean it from a “you couldn’t write this” perspective, in the sense that if I wrote a script two years ago in which a politician bragged about the size of his dick in a debate, it would be going too far. If I had written that someone said “I don’t even wait”, “when you’re a celebrity they let you do it” and, of course, “grab ’em by the pussy”, which is probably his “Ich bin ein Berliner”, people would tell me to get serious. Him taking the role of the George Wallace to the Obama civil rights victory made the idea of him specifically seeking out hotels where Obama had stayed in order to get prostitutes to pee on the beds feel hilariously of a piece with how he exists in the imaginations of many Europeans, at least.

                    • Michael Gebert

                      “Him taking the role of the George Wallace to the Obama civil rights victory”

                      WTF does that mean?

                    • otto

                      Oh I suspect this is going to be much worse than what we know right now. Not the salacious stuff, but his dealings with Russia.

                    • Michael Gebert

                      I’m sure you do, but if today teaches us anything, it’s that expecting the news to be written just for us is a bad idea.

            • Mark Henry Hopper

              No, I’m assuming posting a picture of any part of his passport is no proof of anything at all given he was already in Europe at the time.

              And as for ‘wanting to believe’ that goes both ways. You want to believe Trump is clean on this because it would be more convenient for your chosen political party(to put it lightly), but frankly has there been a month gone by where the case against him didn’t become a little clearer, a little harder to deny? The circumstantial evidence would be easier to ignore if it didn’t support the otherwise-incomprehensible actions of Trump and his team regarding Russia. His vocal, unprecedented support for Putin, the documented actions of his team to shelve any mention of Ukraine from the party’s platform.

              There’s a possibility this report is bogus but a lot of people in DC seem to think it’s legit. That in itself is not proof of anything but it’s better than the word of DONALD TRUMP and his lackies and the Kremlin, which is all you have.

              • Michael Gebert

                Christ. Yes, your heavy breathing on this is completely rational and I’m a Trump puppet. Enjoy it as your Buzzfeed story falls apart and the orange ape becomes stronger yet after the latest in a series of bungled attempts to overthrow him.

                • Mark Henry Hopper

                  So nothing but ad hominems and straw mans at this point? No one said you’re a Trump puppet. I never said I believe the Buzzfeed ‘story.’

                  I think the report they posted is a bit convenient in that it has lots of information that is potentially damaging but with no corroboration is ultimately worthless. However it fits the majority of the known facts and frankly doesn’t seem that implausible, and at the very least should be continued to be investigated. If something like this were leaked about Hillary it would be considered the most substantive thing ever found in modern journalism.

                  The Trump team’s denials of the report are illogical on their face(note you had to link some random blogger with more substantive evidence – the person in question posted something that was completely immaterial and proved nothing).

                  There was a reason it was summarized and presented to Obama and Trump and it wasn’t because the CIA/FBI were like ‘lawl Buzzfeed trolled Trump good!’ Trump himself this morning confirmed(in more words than that) he got the summarized version at that intelligence briefing.

                  • Michael Gebert

                    Look in the mirror before you toss big words like ad hominem around. No, I do not feel like engaging with you today, because I think you are way too excited for it to be worth my energies. Your backtracking is the best part of the above, and I agree with most of it, but if you didn’t just call me a Trump puppet (“You want to believe Trump is clean on this because it would be more convenient for your chosen political party(to put it lightly),”), then I’d like to know just what you did mean.

                    • Mark Henry Hopper

                      Very convenient to make accusations you can’t back up and cower away.

                      I have been consistently attacking one particular thing, which was Michael Cohen’s picture of the front of his passport(and what he implied with that) is laughably worthless as evidence he was not in Prague.

                      Here’s a recap because your reading comprehension skills seem a bit off today, or maybe your up arrow is broken on your keyboard and you can’t reread what has been said so far:

                      My first post was almost entirely about how that passport stamp thing could be gotten around.

                      You replied saying that there’s other ways he can prove it(which as far as I know he hasn’t done, though others are perhaps finding some evidence) and concluded with an assertion that I believed the report(ad hominem #1, there was no suggestion of that in my comment – in fact I deliberately said ‘true or not’).

                      My second post was reiterating what I was attacking(the Michael Cohen passport photo argument) then I went into a tangent responding to your ad hominem attack on my intentions. I engaged for the first time in detail what I thought of the report, which is that it seemed to fit what the actual known facts are. But again I deliberately said ‘There’s a possibility this report is bogus’ though I qualified that it could be true and the lack of truth is only being rebutted strongly by those implicated in the report, the Kremlin and Donald Trump.

                      You replied with an absurd and unworthy “heavy breathing” attack then another couple of ad hominem attacks calling it ‘(my) buzzfeed story’ and saying I called you a ‘Trump puppet.’

                      So in my THIRD post I again elaborated on my thoughts of the report, which have been entirely consistent throughout this discussion. You replied that that was ‘backtracking’ although if you didn’t read what I actually wrote I can see how you thought I was backtracking(hence this annoying summary).

                      And if you think what I said means I implied you’re a Trump puppet, well, go ahead. I disagree, I think it means I think you’re a partisan and are viewing things through a partisan lens of what is more beneficial to your party. Which you will just go ahead and accuse me of, although frankly I don’t think this report being true is beneficial to EITHER party right now. If this report is false and has no substance to it then that’s a GOOD thing. Not for Democrats electoral possibilities but for the COUNTRY.

                    • Michael Gebert

                      Oh yeah, those 1500 words really refute my point about you being too wound up to be worth engaging. Bye.

                    • Mark Henry Hopper

                      You haven’t been engaging me, you had one substantive point (there’s other ways Michael Cohen could prove he wasn’t in Prague) and the rest were attacks. Sorry if responding to your attacks is being ‘wound up.’

                • Dr. New Jersey

                  Isn’t there a saying, “If you want to kill the king, make sure that even if you screw it up completely it builds your internet platform”? Or something.

  • qdpsteve

    All 100% bullshit. If there was any truth at all in this, Hillary/DNC would have used it.

    • It breaks my heart.

    • otto

      Ha!! Your role model is about to get exposed in a very bad way.

      Sure, just keep telling yourself it’s not true.

    • Jeff

      Apparently the DNC didn’t have access to this and Obama thought it was partisan. I mean this all seems pretty in character. As far as the Golden Showers stuff, I couldn’t give the teensiest fuck but it’s hilarious. If I were a billionaire, I’m certain I’d have hired prostitutes to do much more worse things. I think that applies to most folks too.

      • Steven Kaye

        Actually, the Clinton campaign did have access to this material, but even they weren’t dumb enough to use it.

        • Bite The Dust

          Well, as it is, the Clinton campaign was pretty dumb anyway…

        • No, they were simply “dumb enough” to hire a bunch of women to come out and sling phony assault/harassment accusations at Trump at the last possible minute, as if it were enough to “even out” Bill’s long, storied — and very real — history of sexual assault accusations.

          Yeah. Smart campaign she ran there.

    • Folks tried to get this released but just as Wells wrote it is close to impossible to verify, so it didn’t get printed.

    • NephewOfAnarchy

      It would never be in the Clintons’ best interests to bring up sex scandals.

      • Right. Must be why Hillary tried the whole last-minute “Drumpf is a rapist” bit, despite Bill’s actual history of multiple sexual assaults.

        • Magga

          In America, if your husband goes behind your back YOU disqualify yourself, and must witness a showtrial-like parade that no man has ever had to go through.

          • Ah, yes, the old “sexism” angle to explain away why Hillary Rodham Clinton is now a two-time loser in American politics.

            Never mind that she was a shit candidate, that she was a black void where a personality should have been, that she relied on hectoring the electorate with puerile “It’s MY turn!” horseshit rather than offering cogent solutions to the mess of the last eight years.

            Never mind that Clinton was nothing more than a warmongering neo-con in a pantsuit whose decades-long corruption ran so deep to the bone, I swear I can hear Richard Nixon guffawing right this instant…

            Nah, never mind all that. Your girl Hilldog got soundly trounced by an American public who was as turned off to her as Bill’s been all these years… and it has to be due to sexism!

            Oh, and before you don your cape and tights and take to the sky to rescue fair maiden Hillary, you might want to ask yourself why it was that Hillary played such a role in shutting up Bill’s accusers and having their testimonies discredited and swept under the rug.

            “Every survivor of sexual assault deserves to be heard, believed, and supported,” eh, Hill? Yeah.

            Except when they stand as a threat to your political dynasty…

            • Magga

              Dude, I was answering your quote about her in relation to what you said, which was regarding Bill Clinton’s alleged sexual misconduct. It’s perfectly reasonable to point out that her opponent was in the middle of a sex scandal himself, and that he managed to make people turn it against HER. It is a bit like how rape victims are punished in certain countries, and it is one of the moments that defines the Trump movement. Obviously every person who points out blatant displays of sexism is a knight in shining armor bla bla bla, because Trump’s victory is PROOF that these things don’t exist. Sure. Hillary may have had incredible flaws as a candidate, but it isn’t accidental that the first woman was the first candidate to be confronted with sexual assault in this manner, and it made it very clear why America has never had a woman as a nominee before.

  • otto

    I’ve seen a fair share of US intelligence reports, and this looks pretty consistent with the form most of them take – i.e., messy and scattershot.

    But if certain aspects of this are true, one thing is clear: Michael Cohen, Trump’s lawyer, better be packing his bags for a one-way flight to Moscow. He’s fucked.

    • Spicerpalooza

      From what I’ve read this dossier cane from a third party intelligence firm run by a former MI-6 agent. It was commissioned by anti-Trump Republicans and then later by Hillary supporters. One copy of it was given to John McCain who gave it to Comey. McCain is going to fuck Trump hard.

  • brenkilco

    Making urophilia great again.

  • VicLaz5

    This man has no us business being dog catcher.

  • Just wait until closer to the 20th when the videos come out of him thinking that he’s talking to time, death and ratings after writing them letters.

  • Grampappy Amos

    It’s “Golden Slumbers”. You better carry that weight right, if your quoting The Beatles.But you got it right, if you meant the Butthole Surfers

    • I know it’s “Golden Slumbers”. I was deliberately misremembering for comic effect. “Golden showers” (synonymous with “water sports”) is a gay bar term going back God knows how many decades. Did you think I actually thought that the Beatles wrote a song called “Golden Showers” in 1969 when it means only one thing?

      • Joe.Leydon
        • I knew Annie Sprinkle so don’t tell me.

          • Hardcore Henry V

            An early favorite for most (unintentionally) hilarious 2017 HE one-liner.

          • THOM PHOOLERY SAYS…

            That woman taught me everything I know about the lava lizards of the Galapagos Islands.

      • Bite The Dust

        How do you know so much about terminology used in gay bars…? Did you frequent them decades ago before you started hitting, what was it, 400 with the ladies? Or is “ladies” just a euphemism…?

      • Grampappy Amos

        OK. I guess your gay bar bona fides are completely up to date. And if John had gone to Majorca or wherever with Brian Epstein, he may well have written a song called “Golden Showers”. But I wasn’t there.

  • lazarus

    Passed along by a friend: “I guess Trump was a Goldwater Republican after all!”

    • Funny.

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  • Edward Havens

    Time to bring Urinetown back to Broadway. Which house is closest to Trump Tower? We don’t want the PEE-OTUS to miss out!

    • Magga

      Trickle-down diplomacy

  • chien_clean

    Man the CIA and their boyfriends in the Demo party have gone full insane. I’m not American but you guys have gone too far to destroy this guy. A rich guy watched prostitutes perform(imagine that) while Hilary and Obama were instrumental in creating Isis. Which is the most Evil and news worthy? Remember when it was waste of time the whole thing with Clinton and Monia Lewinsky? You are now on the other side, Jeff. You hate this guy so much that it has turned you Evil.

    • Magga

      Uhm… I don’t believe in this document, but are you saying that a President doing the bidding of a foreign government would be as meaningless as a sex scandal?

      • Pertwillaby

        ” President doing the bidding of a foreign government” Are you talking about that alternative timeline where Hillary won and the Saudis are overjoyed?

        • Magga

          This is what’s so frustrating about talking to Trumpsters, to the extent that I was really pleasantly surprised when Ivan Drago said something was a “fair question”. Here, someone says this scandal is just like the Lewinsky scandal, I make a point of saying I don’t believe this scandal is real, but that the implications would be different. Then you bring up alternative realities and Clinton. We have one thing in common: we have to accept that the election is over, and that Trump is President soon. Which means that you have to put the alternative timeline away, and we have no fantasy monster to compare him to through this and other meltdowns

          • Pertwillaby

            You don’t get to whine and moan about ANY president doing ANY foreign government’s bidding.

            • Magga

              why’s that, fellow foreigner?

            • Phineas T. Prune

              OMG look at your hypocrisy. Goddamn thief

  • Miles Dyson

    The question I have is do the Russian’s need to do more? Would it be bad for them to release the info they have on Trump the day after his inauguration? Doesn’t the chaos that ensues after that info comes out what the whole mission is about? Why risk further communication with him. Why not just dump the entire trove on day 1. It will distract for months if not years. I don’t know that Mike Pence escape or anyone in the republican establishment. All the people that supported a Russian sleeper agent for President…. my fucking god, you couldn’t make it up in any believable fashion.

  • So, guys, I’m just wondering here. Is this it?

    Like, is this all you guys have left in your arsenal at this point — passing along unsubstantiated gossip about a man’s supposed sexual proclivities and tittering about it like a bunch of sixth graders?

    And yet, when plenty of unsubstantiated gossip came (somewhat) to light about your man Obama’s supposed secret homosexuality, or his supposed history of having his young rent-boy ass passed around by powerful Chicago insiders like a joint, you guys laughed it off. You mocked anyone who would put their weight behind high-school rumormongering in an attempt to bring a candidate down.

    You finger-wagged and tut-tutted about how low American political discourse has fallen that salacious gossip about a man’s sexuality could be latched onto as a legitimate means of expressing discontent with his ideas.

    And yet, here you guys are…

    Well, I guess that collective tantrum you threw about the electoral college didn’t work, did it? I guess the endless series of videos using washed-up actors to implore America to do what’s best for the consciences of limousine socialists didn’t work. I guess clinging to the meme of “b-b-but Hillary won the popular vote! More dead people and illegals voted for her than they did for Drumpf!” didn’t work.

    Throw enough shit against the wall and something’s bound to stick, right, guys?

    • Magga

      America elected the international symbol of bigotry in the 21st century and rejected their own position of leadership in the world, and the candidate was aided by Putin according to reports, and Rex Tillerson is the smoking gun IMO, but he can pee on whoever he wants (and I have no reason to believe in it). The notion that he went out of his way to get busy in the Obamas’ bed is hilarious because it fits right into his Vertigo-like obsession with Obama.

      • York Durden

        One “last” shot? Dude is being naive about what’s to come during his term.

        • Magga

          I checked what the Norwegian papers wrote about this, and there has been no mention of the pee-stories. However, Trump asking if America is like Nazi Germany is one of the main stories. He just made the whole story official, because once the President is talking about it, it isn’t gossip-rag talk anymore.

      • Iain L.

        Nope, more like Stalinist Russia from the looks of things.

    • otto

      I know this must be frustrating for you. All those years of rage, boiling over, and you thought you had your standard-bearer in to take back America.

      But the problem is, as you’re about to discover, this is not simply “unsubstantiated gossip.” A long-term U.S. senator of McCain’s stature does not pass “unsubstantiated gossip” on to the FBI. If the source has provided reliable intelligence in the past, there is likely some truth to some of what he/she said. Emphasize “some.” From my experience, my guess it’s some hits and some misses – there is some hearsay in there, and there are likely some inaccuracies. These allegations are pretty particular, and so should be relatively easy to corroborate or refute with other witnesses and evidence. For example, I expect evidence to come out over the week of whether Trump did, or did not, stay at that hotel in Moscow.

      But the more significant consequence will manifest if it is true that the Russians may have been working with Trump proxies. That is very serious. It could very well be a crime, depending upon the circumstances.

      • I know this must be frustrating for you. All those years of rage, boiling over

        Frustrating? Rage “boiling over”? Au contraire, friend-o! I’ve been on a high since Election Day — the kind of high that only deep, genuine schadenfreude can provide.

        Watching you guys and your utter inability to accept that the pendulum has begun its long-overdue shift back in the other direction has been most entertaining.
        Watching you guys and your utter cluelessness as to just how sick and tired the great majority of the country is of you and your “safe spaces” and “micro-aggressions” and push-button shrieking of “racist! misogynist! homophobe!” at any and everyone who disagrees with you… has been most entertaining.

        Watching you guys and your utter inability to muster a coherent, convincing attack on Trump’s proposed policies, or explain why they’d actually be bad for an America still reeling from the disastrous economy of the Obama years and from a system that exploits illegal labor while squeezing out the American working class… has been most entertaining.

        In fact, watching the Left have its collective, unceasing shit-fit since November has been just about the funniest thing to me since The Big Lebowski or Scorsese’s After Hours.

        As to the rest of your post: well, if nothing else, you guys still have your dreams to hold onto…

        • otto

          Oh yeah, no rage there. You’re doing great!

          Just stay tuned, Skippy.

        • Magga

          Schadenfreude seems to be the main reaction I see from RedHats, which suggests to me they don’t so much believe in what their chosen member of the elite is selling them as much as relief that a more inclusive America has been postponed

          • Michael Gebert

            Toto, nits,

          • There is pretty much no logic on display in that conclusion – in fact, it swims upstream, since if the winners were oddly subdued in their celebration you’d have a stronger case – but I think we’re seeing pretty conclusively in all of this that virtue-signalers don’t give a fucking shit about what they preach, that America and the Western world is a deeply stupid place, and that the DNC is the new 700 Club.

            • Magga

              What I mean is, I don’t really hear about all the great specifics they’re going to accomplish, only about how all the lefty commie bastards can go home and cry to mommy about their “safe spaces” and “lack of representation”. It’s not like it’s a surprise, since this is the darkest campaign I’ve ever paid attention to, including the French 2002 election, but it seems like watching “the left” suffer is the point of the victory.

              • It’s not like anyone who would make this kind of argument is listening for anything else, and they’re willing to chip in and contribute if necessary.

                I used to think this was just comedy, but it’s a remarkably accurate depiction of human nature:
                https://youtu.be/m9Wh66FXZJQ?t=40s

                • Magga

                  OK, but what is it supporters are hoping to see happen, except “making America great again”? Building the wall? I mean, I said what I said in response to a guy saying he’d been high on schadenfreude since the election

                  • The schadenfreude was brought into it as a response to the projected claim that he was frustrated and filled with rage.

                    I posted this yesterday in another context to show how times change, but how is the strategy on display here by Team Clinton and his progressive CIR head (and being attacked by Dick Armey) substantively different than what “building the wall” represents?
                    http://www.nytimes.com/1995/06/08/us/clinton-embraces-a-proposal-to-cut-immigration-by-a-third.html

                    What the “building the wall” situation demonstrates that using stupid and dishonest arguments will provoke the adversary to respond likewise until both sides are right about the other side’s stupidity.

                    But deflecting too much to the Trump supporters (or at least the media construction of them) is missing a more important point…

                    It should really scare the hell out of democrats that a big chunk of the schadenfreude and the “safe spaces” rants and the complaints about general progressive stupidity is coming from people who don’t particularly like Trump. Or like him at all. Some of it even from their own base.

                    But no matter what intellectual and ethical standards they are willing to subvert to get back at a guy who they would defend if he had decided to run as a democrat, when other people question those subversions the response is typically to mock them as Trumpsters.

                    The democrats are literally trying to chase people away as a political strategy.

                    • Magga

                      Hell, I myself ranted against safe spaces and PC culture. I remember agreeing a lot with Dulouz about that, even as we disagreed on everything else. But I’ve asked a few Trump supporters what makes them excited about the win, and the answer is either “Hillary’s a bitch” or “watching the liberals fall apart”. There doesn’t seem to be ANYTHING that America wants to achieve right now. 35% tax on everything produced outside America? Really? That’s insanity. Digging up more coal? Ignoring global warming science? It all feels like one big Simpsons episode or some horrible satire, and it feels like it’s motivated by revenge, since all I ever hear are grievances.

          • they don’t so much believe in what their chosen member of the elite is selling them as much as relief that a more inclusive America has been postponed

            Jobs.

            Getting the border under control.

            Stopping our manufacturing bases from permanently setting up shop in other countries and still expecting to turn around and peddle their goods to us.

            Holding old media to accountability for their heretofore unchallenged propensity to twist facts to suit the narrative that their globalist media-conglomerate owners want pushed, and to then slander anyone who dares challenge said narrative.

            Having a commander-in-chief who actually prioritizes the concerns of his own electorate and doesn’t seemingly do everything he can to demonize and undercut half of it while bending over backwards to apologize for us every chance he gets.

            See, these are some of the issues that Trump voters have been talking about since he announced his candidacy. If you’d ever bothered to poke your head outside of the ideological echo chamber you live in and actually take a listen to some of the people you consider to be beneath you, you might have already been aware of this.

            As far as Trump’s massive triggering of leftoid snark-babies who can’t seem to handle it when the guns of mockery and satire are turned back on them? As far as the way that 2016 seems to have taken Dylan’s “Ballad of a Thin Man” and turned it inside out so that it’s you and your ilk who are now the Mister Joneses who just don’t know what it is that’s happening here?

            Cherries atop the sundae, my good man. Cherries atop the sundae.

            • Magga

              He has offered no plans on jobs, the Obama administration was good on jobs.

              Border under control, fine.

              Trump’s suggestion on taxing you 35% for all iPhones and clothes doesn’t seem like a thought-through solution at all.

              Your anti-media crusader has had his own TV show since 2000 and brags about all the free media he got in this election. Fox says it’s the largest cable news channel, and their boss went straight to work on Trump’s campaign, the boss of the Breitbart went into Trump’s government, Trump appears to be hiring from Fox’s media roster.

              You can’t claim with a straight face that Trump doesn’t alienate half the population. Just read through these boards.

              But seriously, you answered what I actually asked you, so Kudos for that

              • Let me just start here:

                the Obama administration was good on jobs

                That’s an interesting reality you’re living in. Counterpoint:

                “The Obama Economy and the Shrinking Middle Class”
                https://www.aei.org/spotlight/the-obama-economy-perry/

                A quote from this article:

                Obama arguably has the worst record of economic performance for any US president (certainly for any president since WWII) and is the first president in US history whose time in office didn’t include at least one year of economic growth at the 3 percent historical average. So Obama’s recent claims that ‘America’s economy is not just better than it was eight years ago, it is the strongest, most durable economy in the world’ doesn’t quite match with the lukewarm economic growth in recent years that hasn’t exceeded 2.5 percent in any year of the Obama’s term.

                Oh, and also from this article:

                Moreover, the number of Americans living in poverty has increased by nearly 7 million during the Obama presidency, and the poverty rate went from 13.2 in 2009 percent to 14.8 percent last year. Further, the number of blacks living in poverty increased by nearly 1.4 million during Obama’s time in office, and the black poverty rate was higher in 2011 at 27.6% than any time since the mid-1990s before falling slightly to 26.2% in 2014.

                “Obama Economy: 9.9 Million More Employed, But 14.6 Million Left Labor Force”
                http://freebeacon.com/issues/obama-economy-9-9-million-employed-14-6-million-left-labor-force/

                A quote from this article:

                The labor force participation rate, which measures the percentage of the population that participated in the labor force by either having a job or looking for one, declined for all Americans during Obama’s time in office from 65.7 percent to 62.7 percent. In September 2015, the participation dipped to 62.4 percent—the lowest level seen in recent times since 1977.

                “Obama’s middling economic legacy”
                http://theweek.com/articles/671495/obamas-middling-economic-legacy

                In December, 156,000 jobs were created, which is serviceable but not great. The unemployment rate was 4.7 percent, which isn’t high. But it’s above the 4 percent we reached in the late ’90s boom. Same goes for wage growth, which was 2.9 percent, versus the 4 percent associated with a good economy. Labor force participation has stopped falling, but isn’t really rising. And so on.

                To add to this, I’ll contribute my own personal experience, which is that I personally have been in and out of work since 2010 and I have several friends who are making less than what they used to make, or working two jobs just to bring home what they used to make with a single job. But, yeah, we’re probably just hallucinating ‘cuz we’re all racists who hate that we had a black President. Or something…

                Then, you said:

                Border under control, fine.

                The border’s under control? The border’s under control? Counterpoint:

                “Illegal border crossings of families this year already surpasses all of 2015”
                http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jun/17/illegal-families-surge-across-border/

                Then, Wikipedia tells us all about what it calls the “2014 American Immigration Crisis”:
                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_American_immigration_crisis

                And what that article tells us is:

                The 2014 American immigration crisis refers to the surge in unaccompanied children from Central America seeking entrance to the United States. The surge has increased rapidly, doubling in volume each year, reaching crisis proportions in 2014 when tens of thousands of women and children from El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras migrated to the United States.

                It also says:

                In July 2015, a federal indictment revealed a forced-labor ring operating on an egg farm near Marion, Ohio, in which teenagers from Guatemala were being lured with promises of education and then forced to work 12-hour days, six or seven days a week. The teens lived in squalid trailers, were denied their paychecks and threatened with death if they sought help.

                Wikipedia also gives us a breakdown of raw numbers of where we’re getting the bulk of our illegals:
                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_the_United_States#Present-day_countries_of_origin

                And in a chart contained within that Wikipedia article, it gives us raw numbers for the countries our largest numbers of illegals came from each year, up to 2009: approx. 6,650,000 from Mexico, 530,000 from El Salvador, 480,000 from Guatemala, 320,000 from Honduras. And so on. We can only imagine what the numbers are from 2009 on.

                Wikipedia also tells us that, according to the Pew Hispanic Center:

                There are an estimated half a million illegal entries into the United States each year. Thirty-five million people reside in the United States after having evaded the Immigration Inspectors or Border Patrol.

                And that info can be found here:
                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_entry#United_States

                There’s also a nifty PDF report put out by the Government Accountability Office entitled, “Illegal Immigration: Border-Crossing Deaths Have Doubled Since 1995; Border Patrol’s Efforts to
                Prevent Deaths Have Not Been Fully Evaluated” –

                http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d06770.pdf

                I’m just curious: is it easy to breathe when you keep your head stuck that far up your own ass? Like, do you keep an oxygen tank installed in your colon or something?

                • Magga

                  Calm down, I said “border control, OK”, as in, “OK, that’s an issue”. When it comes to jobs, Clinton is the only person who’s had that kind of growth without also having a huge recession in the middle of it. I’ve had my job issues as well, being a freelancer in film. Sometimes there’s enough to do, sometimes too little, and I might have to get one of those regular gigs that I never thought I wanted. But the numbers are the numbers, and a whole lot of countries had what happened to America happen to them at that time. America bounced back very well compared to the countries that made huge cuts in public spending, while countries that did stimulus did much better across the board. I’m sorry you’ve had those experiences with work, but I know a lot of people who’ve come here (Norway) for work from countries that have really felt the brunt of this, like Spain, Greece, Italy etc. People come from Russia because they’re being persecuted by the people who helped Trump win. America has always been a symbol of freedom that gives the world hope, and a melting pot and so forth, and Trump took that away. It may be unfair, but America is not viewed that way anymore. We instantly normalized our relationship with China when Trump won, and I think they are the winners in all this. This has all the appearance of a major catastrophe, with spurts of growth in the beginning due to de-regulations (and those are horrible for anyone who cares about our planet), but it seems very likely that a collapse like 08 or 87 will happen again. Removing the bank regulations, as the Republicans have proposed, is absolute insanity, and in no way designed to get you a job.

    • Mark G.

      Steve Bannon, does your boss know this is how you’re spending your time???

      • I’m astounded by your Billy Wilder-like wit. I’m literally rocked back in my seat here from a pithy rejoinder that surely must have Oscar Wilde fuming with jealousy from the great beyond…

        But, again, I ask you: is this it? Is latching onto unsubstantiated middle-school neener-neenering all you guys have at this point?

    • Michael Gebert

      The truest thing said in that is “And yet, here you guys are…”

      Yes, here Hollywood Elsewhere is, trading sex rumors and watching 3-hour crank videos about the secret shadow government.

      Anyone know a site where they talk movies?

      • Magga

        America has elected a TV villain as President. Some crossover is to be expected, and this is a hilarious twist in the whole satire

        • Charles Peligro

          America always elects villains, this one is just more colorful.

          • Magga

            I’m saying movie fans won’t ever see a crazier story than this, so why not cover it. It’s like Honey Boo Boo meets Dr. Strangelove.

      • I’d suggest The A.V. Club but they’ve gone just as far off the rails into rabid, frothing, inserting-gratuitous-anti-Trumpisms-into-every-single-article madness as Wells has.

  • Maurice
    • Magga

      As always, it doesn’t matter anymore, since Trump went on an insane twitter rant of epic proportions. He’s always been a joke, but this is the first time I’ve found the joke funny

      • Brad

        except that document was in circulation well before this false claim that they created this story.

        • otto

          I just spoke w/ a friend who works for a large national news organization. They have known about this document for at least a week, but sat on it – only talking about it because the intelligence community raised it in their briefings w/ Obama & Trump.

          And that seals it for me: no way would the intelligence community have raised it to the President unless there was some credibility to the allegations.

          • Brad

            There is something to it, and if even 10% of it is true, which since it came from MI-6 I think it mostly is, then they should stop him from being inaugurated. But this is unprecedented. I am not sure what the protocol is. The repubs should be the first ones to move in this direction though, it hurts them, the nation is in peril because of them.

            • Michael Gebert

              Who’s they? Is the new policy of the Democratic party that the intelligence services get to override the election?

          • 1. Take information that was already being reported yesterday (that this document had been circulating but nobody would publish it until someone made its mere existence a story)
            2. Repackage it as information from personal access to an inside source
            3. Use it to claim confidence in this news story, because our intelligence community has shown over and over again how much it’s basically our nation’s pharmacist
            4. Add to impressive record of political predictions

            • otto

              I don’t understand. What evidence do you have that I’m wrong?

              • What claim did you make that I said you were wrong about? I was merely pointing out that your first paragraph apparently exists only to provide the appearance of gravitas to your second one, but in fact undercuts it somewhat because of how otherwise unnecessary it is.

                • otto

                  If I were crossing you now, it would not be pretty. Because you’re lacking a lot of foundation here, a lot of ungrounded supposition.

                  “Gravitas” on the internet is like farts in a hurricane. I don’t need “gravitas” because I have my experience and my opinion. Take them for what they’re worth.

                  • I don’t know what ungrounded suppositions you think I made, but I suspect they didn’t really happen.

                    • otto

                      This is what we regard as ungrounded supposition: “first paragraph apparently exists only to provide the appearance of gravitas to your second one”

                      I you were on the stand and made this statement, I would have some fun with you.

                    • We could have fun together. If you think I’m claiming you don’t have a friend at a news organization, that you didn’t talk to him/her, and/or that he/she didn’t tell you that, those are also ungrounded suppositions.

                      But since that information was already available yesterday (here, for instance), the anecdote has the appearance of a rhetorical ploy. This could be the case even if it happened, which I made no comment upon.

                      I actually did make an ungrounded supposition that went unstated, and that is that you were as marginally informed about the story as I was and wouldn’t have needed to phone a friend to get that information. (Not that I am stating a conclusion about why you called your friend.) But if you weren’t aware of it, you would have probably also not been aware that you didn’t need to explain how you got that information to establish it as the basis for your second paragraph.

        • Magga

          Again, I don’t think this is legit at all, but his twitter meltdown is real.

          • Brad

            he cannot do that much more to discredit himself, or invalidate The Office, he places all of us in peril, and shames the nation

    • otto

      That’s pretty funny. Yeah, I guess that resolves it! Nothing to see here!

      No, it’s not “totally fabricated.” If reports on the origin are true, this came from a long-term source. Whatever the truth of particular allegations, there is something here.

  • Sharon Marlowe

    Hmm…what to believe? Pizzagate and Wikileaks, or golden showers and the CIA?

  • Magga

    Those prostitutes must have had some terrible diseases. Trump is still orange

  • Pete Miesel

    Trump’s eagerness to please Putin is about as subtle as a guy buying condoms in front of his blind date.

  • Patrick Murtha

    Update: The Inaugural Balls may consist of Omarosa shaking her booty in an empty room.

  • Magga

    Goddamn! Just watched his press conference, and when asked if people from his team were in contact with the Russians, he dodged the question. Also, his children are running his companies. What a joke

    • otto

      I caught part of it, and it was pretty funny. The guy has ADD. And every sentence ends with, “… and they say it was the best ever, by the way.”

      In all the noise, I think there are two things here that really jump out at me: (1) that McCain thought the source was credible enough to forward it to intelligence, and (2) that the intelligence people found it credible enough to include it in their briefing. There is something here, but I think it’s going to take time to suss out what is true and what is not.

      • Magga

        With cases like this, I usually consult the papers here in Norway, even though they are less salacious (engaging with prostitutes was how they put the act) and the articles say the intelligence community put these things in the report to show what was out there as rumors and innuendo in some intelligence communities. In other words, “be aware that people are planning to use this against you”, then someone leaked it.
        I do believe Putin hacked the e-mails to get Trump elected and was possibly rewarded with Rex Tillerson, though, and I find him dodging the question pretty notable

    • The Bandsaw Vigilante

      ‘”What about the blind trust? How will you be separating yourself from your business assets?”

      …And he just points to a pile of folders and mentions his two sons, like that’s somehow an acceptable fucking answer.

    • What a joke. Absolutely. Boy, why couldn’t we have just voted for four more years of economic uncertainty and the slow death of the middle class, plus the continued exporting of our manufacturing bases and the balkanization of the populace via identity politics and Obama’s race-baiting, while throwing in some totally sweet military aggression against Russia, on top of it!
      World War III. Man. Think of all the cool movies we could’ve gotten out of it.

      • Magga

        Yes, the first black President is a race baiter and the first female candidate must be confronted with sexual assault, and the jobs numbers are a lie and the moon is made of cheese and Trump is a genius and all those laid-off factory workers are experts on the environment or else you’re talking down to them. I’m sure this’ll work out great.

  • The Buzzfeed editor himself said “there is serious reason to doubt the allegations.” And yet he publishes it. Man, I hope nobody holds a grudge against me. Who knows where my alleged dossier will turn up.

  • THX11384EB

    Trump should go in for psychiatric evaluation. I’m serious.

    “BEST CABINET EVER”

  • Mr. F.

    Hard to argue (well, impossible) with any of this:

    http://www.vox.com/2017/1/11/14232666/trump-russia-allegations

    Forget about rumors and speculation. What’s in the public record is bad enough.

  • Hardcore Henry V

    Newsflash: people have weird, kinky sex. Newsflash #2: Presidents are people (sometimes difficult to verify with Trump, but there ya go).

    OF ALL PEOPLE, are “liberals” really going to try to crucify Trump for this??

    I mean, if you can’t trust a country’s left-wing to defend a person’s right to piss on someone in the name of consensual perversion — not to mention CAPITALISM (and, yes, little snowflakes, prostitution counts as a BUSINESS TRANSACTION) — then the terrorists have already won.

  • The Bandsaw Vigilante

    All I know is, the next President after Trump will order a new bed, pillows, mattress, and sheets, just in case.

    I think the worst thing about the whole “golden showers”-thing is that Trump paid women to defile themselves just because Obama cracked some jokes at him. That is a fucked-up individual.

  • The Bandsaw Vigilante

    This just makes me so happy. He signed up for this shit, and now he’s absolutely fucking miserable.

    Y’know, Donnie, it’s just a job. And you can always quit.

    Look, guys, the dude is miserable. His health sucks. His life sucks. He knows he’s hated around the world. He knows his dad will never love him. That he’ll never get that validation from beyond the grave.

    He knows he’s made America not great, but into a laughingstock from which it might never recover. Even if we go on to really, truly become The Greatest Country In The World™, we’re still going to be the nation who elected this guy.

    Which is a long-winded way of saying he’s probably going to have a stroke or a heart attack within the year. My huge fear is that impeachment, if it does happen, is delayed just enough past the two-year mark so Pence can actually run for two terms.

    • Hardcore Henry V

      Enjoy your new residence in Canada!

    • Look, guys, the dude is miserable. His health sucks. His life sucks. He knows he’s hated around the world. He knows his dad will never love him. That he’ll never get that validation from beyond the grave.

      Projecting again? Why not? It’s your bunch’s greatest talent, apparently.

      • The Bandsaw Vigilante

        LOL U mad bro?

        • Nah, I’m feeling pretty giddy these days, bro. I have a post somewhere in this thread about my thorough enjoyment of the Left’s collective meltdown. That about sums it up.

          • The Bandsaw Vigilante

            …Eh, just give it a year or two. “Pendulums,” and all that, as you say.

            • My rejoinder? Look up the years 1968 and 1972. Look up 1980, 1984 and 1988.

              The longer a pendulum takes to swing back, the longer it tends to stay put.

    • roland1824

      You are close, but not quite. He “signed up” to be an actor playing a part, which he may or may not be happy doing. His “tweets” are scripted by a group, aimed to rile us up and distract. The outlandish news stories are planted with the same aimi. The real agenda work is being done behind the scenes while we are watching this clown.

  • The Bandsaw Vigilante

    This news definitely makes this clip make more sense. Trump has seen things that can’t be unseen:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d3C3qrO_8Q

  • Ben Kabak

    Funny how it only took a few hours to be discredited. You know if they actually attacked him for real reasons it might help.

    • otto

      If you think anything has been “discredited,” you are a child. If it were “discredited,” the intelligence community would not have provided Trump the report. They don’t operate like that; they vet sources. And apparently found this source historically credible.

  • roland1824

    Does no one even consider that perhaps all the outlandish stories and statements are scripted by some behind the scenes committee so the unhinged “Trump” character is a front, while the real powers that be quietly enact the agenda they want in the background? At what point would that actually make more plausible sense? It is baffling that everyone completely accepts everything issued by “Trump” as the output of one crazy man.

    • There’s more truth to this than one might think at first glance. [Not that there’s necessarily lockstep harmony on it.]